Poll for 2020 election

[Patine]

The mute button is there for a reason my friend.

That's all i have to say.

It doesn't block 'likes' of other people's posts. That was part of my problem.

 

[Arakhor]

If you have a problem with certain site functions, I'll direct you to Site Feedback. "Revenge-tagging" is not acceptable though.

 

[Arwon]

Considering, in American politics the Democratic electorate extends, ideologically into the centre-right part of it by a bit, and the Green Party has about 2-4% of left-wing voters, and the Libertarian and Constitution Parties hold about 5% together of voters, mostly right-leaning (with some left-leaning voters favouring the Libertarians, for some reasons), and, in 2016, a fair number who might have otherwise voted Democrat voted for Trump for purely economic and jobs-related reasons, ignoring his more inflammatory racial rhetoric (even though @Arwon, @Cloud_Strife, and a few others here swear up and down that this particularly voting is a pure and flagrant impossibility - that only bigot-priority voter could POSSIBLY vote for Trump), the fact is, the Democratic Party of the United States is not REALLY coterminous with the left-wing spectrum voters in their entirety, in the United States, exactly and solidly - although, it's close, it's not close enough to be conflating the terms like that ALL THE TIME.

What made you think I'd want to be drive-by tagged into one of these screeds? Don't do that.

 

[Patine]

What made you think I'd want to be drive-by tagged into one of these screeds? Don't do that.

You respond reliably to a lot of other people's screeds - so what's the difference? Because my "screeds" don't take a predictable "side" to make scripted and easy responses to?

 

[Arwon]

Look, don't randomly tag people just to have a go at them, it's rude.

 

[Quintillus]

I'd support either. Slightly prefer Biden, although would have preferred Warren or Buttigieg. Sanders is simply too idealistic to me. Warren shares many of the same goals, but is willing to work within the system to get things done, rather than talking about revolution. I wish Biden were a bit more ambitious, but in the end prefer him as someone willing to be practical about making progress, to Sanders as someone who shoots for the moon, but is not pragmatic about how to achieve his idealistic goals. Biden, I except some moderate amount of progress if he's elected, especially if he also has a blue Congress to work with. I believe that blue Congress is more likely to happen with Biden at the top of the ticket, than with Sanders, due to Biden's less divisive personality.

As for electoral appeal... Sanders definitely has more appeal among my age group (18-44), but Biden has more appeal among older voters (45+). History has demonstrated that older voters vote more reliably, so unless Sanders can prove otherwise in the primaries, Biden strikes me as the candidate with the broadest appeal. He also is stronger among minorities (especially African-Americans), as well as white women, and in the end I think that outweighs Sanders' support among the under-30 demographic.

In the end, though, both would be a yuge improvement. And I'd be happy to see Sanders prove me wrong and find a way to both achieve his goals, and to pay for them. I supported him in 2016, when he represented preferring something a bit more ambitious than the status quo. Now, however, I'd love nothing more than a return to normalcy, and find Biden to be the best chance to achieve that. And perhaps I've also become a bit more pragmatic over the past 4 years, realizing that the limited success of the Obama year likely was due more to Congressional non-cooperation for the last 6 years, than any shortcomings of Obama himself.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'd support either. Slightly prefer Biden, although would have preferred Warren or Buttigieg. Sanders is simply too idealistic to me. Warren shares many of the same goals, but is willing to work within the system to get things done, rather than talking about revolution. I wish Biden were a bit more ambitious, but in the end prefer him as someone willing to be practical about making progress, to Sanders as someone who shoots for the moon, but is not pragmatic about how to achieve his idealistic goals. Biden, I except some moderate amount of progress if he's elected, especially if he also has a blue Congress to work with. I believe that blue Congress is more likely to happen with Biden at the top of the ticket, than with Sanders, due to Biden's less divisive personality.

As for electoral appeal... Sanders definitely has more appeal among my age group (18-44), but Biden has more appeal among older voters (45+). History has demonstrated that older voters vote more reliably, so unless Sanders can prove otherwise in the primaries, Biden strikes me as the candidate with the broadest appeal. He also is stronger among minorities (especially African-Americans), as well as white women, and in the end I think that outweighs Sanders' support among the under-30 demographic.

In the end, though, both would be a yuge improvement. And I'd be happy to see Sanders prove me wrong and find a way to both achieve his goals, and to pay for them. I supported him in 2016, when he represented preferring something a bit more ambitious than the status quo. Now, however, I'd love nothing more than a return to normalcy, and find Biden to be the best chance to achieve that. And perhaps I've also become a bit more pragmatic over the past 4 years, realizing that the limited success of the Obama year likely was due more to Congressional non-cooperation for the last 6 years, than any shortcomings of Obama himself.

See you're getting jaded. The president doesn't matter that much a rubber stamp for the two parties would achieve much the same.

 

[Quintillus]

Eh, with Trump, who wouldn't be? But it is true that my disillusion with Trump, and his talk of draining the swamp, has spilled over to those on the far left like Sanders, who similarly talk of overthrowing the establishment. It has a lot less currency when you've seen what happened with the current guy who advocated that. We left the Paris accord, discredited experts, and de-funded 80% of epidemic prevention programs at the CDC, including aid to China in that department. Why would we want more of overthrowing the establishment?

I like Sander's thoughts in income inequality and universal healthcare, but as Warren points out, there are ways to make major strides towards that without convincing people that bureaucracy itself is the problem. I'd posit the major problems the U.S. is facing are income inequality (which Sanders does well at), climate change (at which he does worse than Biden, due to his lack of support for nuclear), and rebuilding public trust in the government (at which he was the worst of the Democratic candidates, due to his talk of revolution and overthrowing the establishment). In the end, Sanders' weakness in the latter two cancels out his strength in the former in my reckoning.

 

[Zardnaar]

Burn it down hasn't worked well in Europe.

 

[Tristan_C]

On the other hand cuts to social security will absolutely hurt me.

Cuts to social security, hahahaa

aaahhhhhaahahahah

I do not know when the Social Security fearmongering began, exactly, because the tactic is older than I am. I'm guessing the Democrats have been doing this in every election and midterm since the late sixties under LBJ's administration, or early seventies. I suppose it keeps working because the target demographic, old people, is a revolving door where the people who leave the demographic are unfortunately no longer able to comment on whether the fearmongering had a basis.

 

[Estebonrober]

Cuts to social security, hahahaa

aaahhhhhaahahahah

I do not know when the Social Security fearmongering began, exactly, because the tactic is older than I am. I'm guessing the Democrats have been doing this in every election and midterm since the late sixties under LBJ's administration, or early seventies. I suppose it keeps working because the target demographic, old people, is a revolving door where the people who leave the demographic are unfortunately no longer able to comment on whether the fearmongering had a basis.

well that one post stood out for a reason. Every time they don't adjust for COLA that's a cut. Every time they raise the age for full benefits that's a cut. GOP talk about raising the age to 70 these days.

 

[amadeus]

Important question re: social security.

Will this discussion result in me being able to spend more time making pie charts in my Excel knockoff? If the answer is no, then I’m not interested.

 

[Socrates99]

Cuts to social security, hahahaa

aaahhhhhaahahahah

I do not know when the Social Security fearmongering began, exactly, because the tactic is older than I am. I'm guessing the Democrats have been doing this in every election and midterm since the late sixties under LBJ's administration, or early seventies. I suppose it keeps working because the target demographic, old people, is a revolving door where the people who leave the demographic are unfortunately no longer able to comment on whether the fearmongering had a basis.

Strange tactic when it's a Democrat who's been the one pushing for it...
https://theintercept.com/2020/01/25/joe-biden-social-security/
The scheme of the uniparty is for Republicans to wreck the budget by prioritizing tax cuts then Democrats come in and use austerity to balance the books.

 

[Tristan_C]

Now things are just getting confusing. Joe Biden touched the third rail? Did he do it on purpose?!

 

[Socrates99]

Now things are just getting confusing. Joe Biden touched the third rail? Did he do it on purpose?!

Yep, for decades. It's why lefties are upset that he's the frontrunner and guys like you should be doing victory laps if hes nominated.

 

[Tristan_C]

Yep, for decades. It's why lefties are upset that he's the frontrunner and guys like you should be doing victory laps if hes nominated.

Odd.

Well I hate the SSA but it's entrenched now. People paid in and are chemically reliant on it. Without a nuclear winter, its only possible vector is to keep expanding, like Medicare. That was the plan. Nothing can be done about that, not even by Joe Biden.

 

[Socrates99]

Odd.

Well I hate the SSA but it's entrenched now. People paid in and are chemically reliant on it. Without a nuclear winter, its only possible vector is to keep expanding, like Medicare. That was the plan. Nothing can be done about that, not even by Joe Biden.

Why hate it? It's one of the few programs everyone pays into and everyone gets a direct benefit from. It reduced elderly poverty by over 70% when it was instituted.

 

[Tristan_C]

Why hate it?

Of all the things FDR did to prolong the depression, I think starting this pyramid scheme up probably inflicted the most persistent and egregious harm, given what it has evolved into. In principle there is nothing wrong with temporary relief, during a depression, of people with no family who are beyond the edge of the life expectancy charts in a world where there is no institutional notion of retirement. But Social Security obviously wasn't just about them for very long.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Odd.

Well I hate the SSA but it's entrenched now. People paid in and are chemically reliant on it. Without a nuclear winter, its only possible vector is to keep expanding, like Medicare. That was the plan. Nothing can be done about that, not even by Joe Biden.

Well, good. You can opt out when you retire. Oh yes, Medicare is such terrible thing. Actually, paying for healthcare, how terrible. How old are you again?

 

[Socrates99]

Of all the things FDR did to prolong the depression, I think starting this pyramid scheme up probably inflicted the most persistent and egregious harm, given what it has evolved into. In principle there is nothing wrong with temporary relief, during a depression, of people with no family who are beyond the edge of the life expectancy charts in a world where there is no institutional notion of retirement. But Social Security obviously wasn't just about them for very long.

That elderly poverty rate wasn't just Depression related. It was something that was needed ever since the industrial revolution. It not only takes care of the older generation but also relieves the burden on the younger generation.