Poll: Minimum Wage

[Cuivienen]

I'm all for lowering it. The prices of practically everything will plummet, and jobs will come back to America because of its highly educated workforce, and will then be able to compete with companies worldwide.

I want people to realize that if the minimum wage drops, so will prices. Most seem unable to comprehend this. They figure if people get paid $1.00 per hour, then microwave meals will stay at $3.00. This is not true since the cost to manufacture it will lower as well. Also, if no one can afford to buy it, then it will be impossible for that company to stay afloat since it is not selling any product.

The unemployment rate will almost become zero since corporations and small businesses will be able to hire more people. Just because the minimum wage is $1.00 does not mean raises will become unknown. Corporations will still compete for the same skilled workers, the fastest, brightest or strongest.

Complaining about illegal immigrants taking jobs for less? Fear no more! Why would corporations hire some illegals if they are going to make the same as Americans, who pay taxes to fund roads, or development to help business?

This hits home to me since my towns largest employer (employs 1,100 people out of a town of 11,000) is closing and it outsourcing its manufacturing plants to Mexico. I would have loved for them to stay and save this town.

Perfection has already accurately debunked all of your arguments, so I'll just say that the more effective way of dealing with such problems are tariffs. I still don't understand the whole "free trade" ideology; it doesn't benefit either country unless the two countries involved have comparable economies and living standards.

 

[Pbhead]

It beats your solution of having people working 2$/hour to make bigger benefits for the employers. The market will make sure those profits end up in the consumer's pockets right? I don't think so.

the INSTANT someone thinks "hey! i can lower my prices below my competeters because I am saving a bit of $$$, therefor people will by my stuff instead of his!" a downward price sprial occers as people are trying to under cut others till it hits a new economic floor. and as technology inproves... that floor will drop some more.

 

[Godwynn]

Perfection has already accurately debunked all of your arguments

Really?


I work in the Dairy at Kroger. The pricing system we have set up is the cheese is always marked up 41% of what it costs us to recieve and pay for the product. Now, with gas prices going up, the cost of cheese naturally went up since it cost more to ship it from the place where it was manufactured, to Louisville Kentucky, and then to my store in Illinois. So the lower the cost of the product, the lower the price is for you, the consumer.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Perfection has already accurately debunked all of your arguments, so I'll just say that the more effective way of dealing with such problems are tariffs. I still don't understand the whole "free trade" ideology; it doesn't benefit either country unless the two countries involved have comparable economies and living standards.

The "Free Trade" ideology is based on the idea of comparative advantage. While American workers tend to cost much more than their foreign counterparts they are unmatched in productivity. Even without a government mandated price floor most wages would remain where they are becase the amount of work employers can get of Americans is still considerably more than other nation's workers.

Edit: I'll pick up with this later, right now the greedy capitalist needs some sleep.

 

[Pbhead]

I still don't understand the whole "free trade" ideology; it doesn't benefit either country unless the two countries involved have comparable economies and living standards.

the problem with china is that they are a socialist country living off of capitalist (even more so than the USA) hongkong and other such citys.

when the government takes advantage of its people, the, quite frankly, slavery, in china happens.

china is as rouge as north korea, but its sheer size, and the fact we have played into their hands makes our sepration inpossible.

 

[Perfection]

So employers are going to keep prices high to the point where no one can afford to purchase them, thereby selling nothing, and making no money?

The cost of making a product and the price of selling it are related. If their purchasing power is not changed, there should be no difference.

I think your missing my point. My point is that lowering minimum wage won't significantly effect production costs, employee wages, or prices because most employees already make significantly above minimum wage. It's macreconomic effect would be the same as if you lowered required minimm milk prices from $.03 to $.02 a gallon, very little because for the most part people pay more.

So we let those jobs go? Not everyone can be a rocket scientist, someone has to dig ditches, as sad as it may be, it is a fact of life. Not everyone is cut out to be a physicist or an inventor.

I highly doubt that the majority of those in the manufacturing sector have jobs that are near thier intellectual potential. People are smarter than you think.

 

[WillJ]

the min wage is a price floor.


price controls can really screw things up. (you mentioned outsourceing and inflation, although true inflation comes straight from the government printing $$$)

therefore it should be abolished.

ever wonder where those boys with flashlights at the movie theater went? they turned into glow strips when the min wage affected them.

the kid with the broom at the local mom and pop store? minimum wage showed up with a vengence.

a min wage causes jobs to go *poof*

a minimum wage can, as many things, be explained by "Any socity that would sacrifice a bit of freedom to gain a bit of security deserves neither and loses both." Ben Franklen

Exactly, that's the "bad stuff" I mentioned. But keep in mind there's also good stuff; the question is which outweighs the other.

Perfection has already accurately debunked all of your arguments, so I'll just say that the more effective way of dealing with such problems are tariffs. I still don't understand the whole "free trade" ideology; it doesn't benefit either country unless the two countries involved have comparable economies and living standards.

Woah, I didn't know anyone still believes in tariffs. Ol' Adam Smith debunked those about 225 years ago.

Economic isolation never benefits anyone. Free trade isn't just sensible in countries of comparable living standards (why in the world would that be the case?); in vastly different countries, both the rich ones and the poor ones benefit from trade. To use just one example out of thousands, India has risen out of extreme poverty thorugh the IT industry by trading with America, who has also benefited.

 

[Pbhead]

The "Free Trade" ideology is based on the idea of comparative advantage. While American workers tend to cost much more than their foreign counterparts they are unmatched in productivity. Even without a government mandated price floor most wages would remain where they are becase the amount of work employers can get of Americans is still considerably more than other nation's workers.

Edit: I'll pick up with this later, right now the greedy capitalist needs some sleep.

well that solves it!

ahaha!

well good, I am happy, and i need some sleep too.

 

[Godwynn]

I think your missing my point. My point is that lowering minimum wage won't significantly effect production costs, employee wages, or prices because most employees already make significantly above minimum wage. It's macreconomic effect would be the same as if you lowered required minimm milk prices from $.03 to $.02 a gallon, very little because for the most part people pay more.

Think of all the places where you live that hire uneducated adults or high school students. Do you really think that sweeping the floors earns $6.50/hour (the minimum wage in Illinois)?

I highly doubt that the majority of those in the manufacturing sector have jobs that are near thier intellectual potential. People are smarter than you think.

Tell me where you live at. I want to get out of this moronic hellhole I live in.

 

[Godwynn]

Economic isolation never benefits anyone.

We should know that from , remember Mercantilism?

 

[Perfection]

I still don't understand the whole "free trade" ideology; it doesn't benefit either country unless the two countries involved have comparable economies and living standards.

I disagree, international trade is boon for the world! Take a look at Japan and South Korea, through international trade they've been able to become developed nations all while providing low cost consumer goods to others!

 

[Birdjaguar]

Let states and cities set their own.

 

[Cuivienen]

Woah, I didn't know anyone still believes in tariffs. Ol' Adam Smith debunked those about 225 years ago.

Economic isolation never benefits anyone. Free trade isn't just sensible in countries of comparable living standards (why in the world would that be the case?); in vastly different countries, both the rich ones and the poor ones benefit from trade. To use just one example out of thousands, India has risen out of extreme poverty thorugh the IT industry by trading with America, who has also benefited.

I wasn't actually arguing in favor of tariffs, just pointing out that they were an equivalent and yet more effective solution to what Godwynn proposed: in short, that concerns over foreign underpricing are better met by forcibly raising foreign prices than by forcibly lowering your own. In any case, tariffs do not necessitate economic isolation as long as tariffs are set to simply equalize prices and not raise foreign prices beyond domestic. (It is also noteworthy that the US government thrived largely on tariffs during the 1800s and that, during that time, the US economy did quite well for itself.) Now I sound like I'm arguing in favor of tariffs again. Oh well. Maybe they wouldn't be such a bad idea, at least in moderation.

As for comparable economic standards: India is not a true example as the US does not have and never has had free trade relations with India. The US has only NAFTA and CAFTA. I'm not going to bring it up further, but NAFTA is an okay thing while CAFTA is an economic disaster for everyone involved because it promotes exploitation in poor countries and causes outsourcing in wealthy countries.

 

[Pbhead]

btw... most of price of starbuck comes from the teens behind the counter.

Of cource in order to work there, one must memorize all those crazy combos and... just... well... I am just glad i am not addicted to caffine!

 

[Cuivienen]

I disagree, international trade is boon for the world! Take a look at Japan and South Korea, through international trade they've been able to become developed nations all while providing low cost consumer goods to others!

International =/= free trade.

 

[skadistic]

As a small buisness owner I'd like to see it raised by a dollar. If more people have money to spend more buisness get created and more buildings need to be built. If I was in a diffrent line of work I may be singing a diffrent tune because my lowest paid worker makes 3x min. wage. And a raise in min. wage does not mean a raise for ever one. I know I wouldn't raise what I pay.

Min. wage should not be seen as a living wage. The argument that some people are not smart enough or educated enough to get out of min. wage is bull. I didn't go to university, I didn't need to. My ******ed brother makes a good bit of coin over min. wage as a janiter.

 

[Pbhead]

Let states and cities set their own.

BETTER idea: let each individual worker set his own price, let us make our own rules, if you think that company "a" is not giving you enough dough, you can head over to company "b"

make your own contracts, let yourself have the choices!

and i thought i said i was going to bed... o well...

 

[Perfection]

Think of all the places where you live that hire uneducated adults or high school students. Do you really think that sweeping the floors earns $6.50/hour (the minimum wage in Illinois)?

Certainly there are few instances where lowering minimum wage will result in lower prices, but that's the exception not the rule. The minimum wage sector is a small portion of the American economy and is pretty much limited to students, retirees, the mentally handicapped, new entrants into the workforce, and a few rural areas. It's a tiny fraction of the American economy.

Tell me where you live at. I want to get out of this moronic hellhole I live in.

Minnesota, the greatest state in the union.

 

[.Shane.]

As many people on this forum know I am a firm believer in free market capitalism.

Except there's no such thing. There never has and there never will be.

Living minimum wage w/ exceptions based on age and maybe type of work.

 

[Pbhead]

And a raise in min. wage does not mean a raise for ever one.

A raise in min wage means a few will get better wages, but many will be laid off.

which is better for the economy?