[POLL] More Wonders for VP

[adan_eslavo]

I have a question, just to be sure - in the earlier version there was possibility of changing number of spawned Natural Wonders with AssignStartingPoints.lua, but since now this file is called AssignStartingPoints_unused.lua, I should do it in ASP_replacement.lua?

Yes. It is the right place to do so. It now only replaces changed functions.

 

[Martiquin]

Thank you for this mod! I dont play a VP game without it!

 

[dorkynorky]

I have had a couple of games crash in the last few months, and after checking with IGE, I see that they both crash on turns where the AI is completing Potala Palace. Is there a file somewhere that can be modified to make it impossible for the PP to be built?

 

[dorkynorky]

Looks like it could be a problem with the UCS mod. I will ask there too.

 

[ellamvik]

Thanks a lot for this awesome mod! Does anyone know if it's it still good with VP 4.21?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Thanks a lot for this awesome mod! Does anyone know if it's it still good with VP 4.21?

It should. I have it installed.

 

[AndreyK]

I conquered city with Qalhat and have a question where can I see culture from TR?

 

[adan_eslavo]

I conquered city with Qalhat and have a question where can I see culture from TR?

I can't remember, but it is probably hidden in dummy building. City view I guess?

 

[Jeddite]

Hey Edan, I am wondering if there is any option in your or base VP/Civ option to reduce the numbers of natural wonders present on map size. Unfortunately, as strong in enhancing gameplay, map visuals, and just novelty factor alone, so much welcomed for those of us who had been playing Civ 5 for years, the fact you get enormous amounts of free happiness quickly (17 in total in very early game on large map, usually 13 or 14 already by turn 100 with just two scouts who prioritise ruins, at least on Milae's map) severly disrupts the balance and makes happiness mechanics/limitations to expansion non-existent. I changed hapinnes from difficulty from 6 to 1 (I would try -numbers if I was sure they will work, but I don't think game is designed to have it that way and could break at some point, if not outright). Even on deity, AIs tend to not get advantage of this bonus happiness and stay very long on 2-3, then 4,5 cities, even progress ones, up to medieval. This allows human player to always outproduce AIs in faith, gold, and production, as with progress you can always be 1-2 cities ahead of the AI and milk per-city bonuses from policies, buildings, and selling resources.

Is there any option in the mod or VP files:
To reduce numbers of natural wonders appearing on a map (especially from 17!)
Or reduce/eliminate happiness gained from discovering natural wonders, that would be ideal to have them stay 17 on the map without this cheat, those wonders are great but 17 free happiness is just going a difficulty level down, at the time when happiness management early game is already easy in current versions of VP.

Thank you from the mountain ^^

 

[adan_eslavo]

Hey Edan, I am wondering if there is any option in your or base VP/Civ option to reduce the numbers of natural wonders present on map size. Unfortunately, as strong in enhancing gameplay, map visuals, and just novelty factor alone, so much welcomed for those of us who had been playing Civ 5 for years, the fact you get enormous amounts of free happiness quickly (17 in total in very early game on large map, usually 13 or 14 already by turn 100 with just two scouts who prioritise ruins, at least on Milae's map) severly disrupts the balance and makes happiness mechanics/limitations to expansion non-existent. I changed hapinnes from difficulty from 6 to 1 (I would try -numbers if I was sure they will work, but I don't think game is designed to have it that way and could break at some point, if not outright). Even on deity, AIs tend to not get advantage of this bonus happiness and stay very long on 2-3, then 4,5 cities, even progress ones, up to medieval. This allows human player to always outproduce AIs in faith, gold, and production, as with progress you can always be 1-2 cities ahead of the AI and milk per-city bonuses from policies, buildings, and selling resources.

Is there any option in the mod or VP files:
To reduce numbers of natural wonders appearing on a map (especially from 17!)
Or reduce/eliminate happiness gained from discovering natural wonders, that would be ideal to have them stay 17 on the map without this cheat, those wonders are great but 17 free happiness is just going a difficulty level down, at the time when happiness management early game is already easy in current versions of VP.

Thank you from the mountain ^^

 

[Jeddite]

thank you, but those values do not correspond to the game. are they a base values that is adjusted for land size (for example more land plots than usual large map) or to increased civilizations numbers like 13/14 in a large map? or are they actual values used in game, but due to multiple-tiles national wonders, this is numbers can be infalted to 15-17. As I can attest each tile of wonders is counted for happiness and for "natural wonders still to found" info on discovery.

 

[adan_eslavo]

thank you, but those values do not correspond to the game. are they a base values that is adjusted for land size (for example more land plots than usual large map) or to increased civilizations numbers like 13/14 in a large map? or are they actual values used in game, but due to multiple-tiles national wonders, this is numbers can be infalted to 15-17. As I can attest each tile of wonders is counted for happiness and for "natural wonders still to found" info on discovery.

This table determines how many Natural Wonders spawn per map size. As u can see the maximum amount for MW is 12. Iirc in vp these vales are a bit lower. You can return values to standard vp definition by deleting this part from the file.

Multitiled Natural Wonders count as 1.

 

[wayfarrer]

I tried using the (overhaul) More Wonders for VP (v23.7).7z with VP 4.21.1. However, none of the natural wonders spawned in, and other than some wheat, horse and iron, no other resources (including bonus/luxury/strategic) spawns on the map. I upgraded to the latest VP 4.22 and tested with the (beta v24 ver 2) and it solved the problem. As an additional note, could you kindly upload the ver 3 revision of v24 to the dropbox?

 

[adan_eslavo]

I tried using the (overhaul) More Wonders for VP (v23.7).7z with VP 4.21.1.

Use MW always with latest VP. Did u try v23.4 also uploaded on Dropbox? I posted older version because of the compatibility issues. Or try older VP versions.
Anyone knows with which version of VP MW v23.X is stable enough to play?

I upgraded to the latest VP 4.22 and tested with the (beta v24 ver 2) and it solved the problem. As an additional note, could you kindly upload the ver 3 revision of v24 to the dropbox?

Nope. v24 is under construction. It was leftover I should have deleted, because it has multiple bugs spread out.

 

[wayfarrer]

Alright, I've done some testing. v23.4 does not work with VP 4.22 (same problems with natural wonders and resources not spawning), however v23.7 and v24 beta works now.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Final voting results from poll that started looong time ago (it was 4 years ago, here is the post). Now, as I started slowly working on new version of this mod, and because @hokath started fixing and balancing VPEE, I think it is the right time to finally add some of them. When, I don't know, because I will have to ask for some help of my fellow @gwennog who is making for me icons one after another and I really appreciate it, but also I am limited on time, so my modding is very slow. But, to sum up, below I present u final results, and as I promised, I will surely some day add first 3 World Wonders from this list, and they will be only enabled when VPEE is on.

Buckingam Palace (England) (1703)                                 tied to Navigation             Votes: 44 31.0%
Bolshoi Theater (Russia) (1776/1825/1856)                         tied to EE-Romanticism         Votes: 42 29.6%
Bastille (France) (from XIV to late XVIII) (but as a prison)     tied to EE-Strongholds         Votes: 40 28.2%
    Arc de Triomphe (France) (around 1830)                             tied to EE-Wargames         Votes: 38 26.8%
    Wat Pho (Thailand) (around1688)                                 tied to Economics             Votes: 34 23.9%
    Yellowstone National Park (USA) (1872)                             tied to EE-Wargames         Votes: 34 23.9%
    Stone Town (Tanzania) (1830-1840)                                 tied to EE-Manufacturing     Votes: 23 16.2%
    Fontanna di Trevi (Italy) (1776)                                 tied to Economics             Votes: 21 14.8%
    Taman Sari (Indonesia) (1765)                                     tied to EE-Flintlock         Votes: 21 14.8%
    Modlin Fortress (Poland) (1806)                                 tied to EE-Strongholds         Votes: 17 12.0%
    Bell Rock Lighthouse (Scotland) (1810)                             tied to EE-Wargames         Votes: 14 9.9%
    Canal du Midi (France) (1681)                                     tied to Navigation             Votes: 10 7.0%

Paro Taktsang (Bhutan) (1692)                                     tied to EE-Flintlock         Votes: 25 17.6%

Few more notes. Paro Taktsang was already added by @jarcast2 in his Hidden Wonders (we cooperate as well in that matter).
Soon I will post new simple poll because I want to check your opinion before releasing new update.

 

[jarcast2]

Final voting results from poll that started looong time ago (I suppose it will be at least few years). Now, as I started slowly working on new version of this mod, and because @hokath started fixing and balancing VPEE, I think it is the right time to finally add some of them. When, I don't know, because I will have to ask for some help of my fellow @gwennog who is making for me icons one after another and I really appreciate it, but also I am limited on time, so my modding is very slow. But, to sum up, below I present u final results, and as I promised, I will surely some day add first 3 World Wonders from this list, and they will be only enabled when VPEE is on.

Buckingam Palace (England) (1703)                                 tied to Navigation             Votes: 44 31.0%
Bolshoi Theater (Russia) (1776/1825/1856)                         tied to EE-Romanticism         Votes: 42 29.6%
Bastille (France) (from XIV to late XVIII) (but as a prison)     tied to EE-Strongholds         Votes: 40 28.2%
    Arc de Triomphe (France) (around 1830)                             tied to EE-Wargames         Votes: 38 26.8%
    Wat Pho (Thailand) (around1688)                                 tied to Economics             Votes: 34 23.9%
    Yellowstone National Park (USA) (1872)                             tied to EE-Wargames         Votes: 34 23.9%
    Stone Town (Tanzania) (1830-1840)                                 tied to EE-Manufacturing     Votes: 23 16.2%
    Fontanna di Trevi (Italy) (1776)                                 tied to Economics             Votes: 21 14.8%
    Taman Sari (Indonesia) (1765)                                     tied to EE-Flintlock         Votes: 21 14.8%
    Modlin Fortress (Poland) (1806)                                 tied to EE-Strongholds         Votes: 17 12.0%
    Bell Rock Lighthouse (Scotland) (1810)                             tied to EE-Wargames         Votes: 14 9.9%
    Canal du Midi (France) (1681)                                     tied to Navigation             Votes: 10 7.0%

Paro Taktsang (Bhutan) (1692)                                     tied to EE-Flintlock         Votes: 25 17.6%

Few more notes. Paro Taktsang was already added by @jarcast2 in his Hidden Wonders (we cooperate as well in that matter).
Soon I will post new simple poll because I want to check your opinion before releasing new update.

I would prioritize non-European wonders honestly, except Wat Pho given there's already Wat Phra Kaew for Siam.

 

[adan_eslavo]

I would prioritize non-European wonders honestly, except Wat Pho given there's already Wat Phra Kaew for Siam.

Ok.
Honestly, I always pushed the community a bit towards non-europeans WWs, but the voting went completely the other way.
We do not have much choice. Only Stone Town and Taman Sari is non-European and non-USA (there are multiple USA wonders already in the game so adding more is meh for me).
Bolshoi Theater fits ideally for empty Romanticism technology.

 

[adan_eslavo]

New poll is on. Please give me your feedback I will appreciate every vote.

 

[hokath]

For me, explanation of why the bonuses are what they are is great, but it belongs in the Strategy text not the Help text.
Also, there will be a large change to how tooltips are created in the future @azum4roll and there, it might make sense in the help text but it will probably be clearer when we have a version of that we can test.