Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission

Kal'thzar · Feb 5, 2012

An oversight, I'd been working with a design that was working at the limits of the construction tech under the old rules. Thanks.

EDIT: Slight problem with the mass, fixed by going burst. Lets me fling bigger ships around, I'll edit it in at some point.
EDITEDIT: Actually worked out cheaper. Heh.
EDITEDITEDIT: Actually that lets me redo a bunch of the designs to the higher mass versions...
EDIT4: Well thats just sick, fleet can now fling out 20 Fission Buster missiles, 8 Interceptors, 6 Kinetic Lances. Should probably switch out some of those Busters to more interceptors.

Kal'thzar · Feb 5, 2012

Particle:

Yuck

Spoiler :

Fleet:
1 ship each....:|

maxing out dodge at 8 is a fair idea, but then there needs to be a better missile defence option. Coilguns and the comp based missile defence options are simply inadequate to get around the int based fleet I have.

Thlayli · Feb 5, 2012

Yeah, particle fleets still suck. As kal has pointed out missile defense is still abysmal. Furthermore, if particle components are going to be as expensive as they are, they should be light and small to allow particle ships to ACTUALLY be high dodge as the design doc intends them to be.

I think that the amount of particle damage avoidance given by armor should be capped at 50% or some such number or there will be very little incentive to build shields ever.

One possible option would be to let coilgun ships give missile defense bonuses to their neighboring ships, because there's no real reason you couldn't use your flak ship to protect neighboring ships in an instance.

Symphony D. · Feb 5, 2012

AGGRESSOR FLEET MANDRAKE

Blatantly stealing some of Kal's ideas, with a slightly different focus. T4, 2 Components/3 Designs Refined (879e / 249s), Advancer, Poor Safety.

I don't think this has quite enough missiles vs. dodge to win against that fleet, but it might, and it's a tech level lower. The difference would ultimately come down to whether the Valkyries can keep his missile boats busy long enough for the Intersector to vaporize them. If so, I win. If not, I lose.

Spoiler Ship List :

Code:

[b]AGGRESSOR FLEET MANDRAKE[/b]

[b][u]
NAME			PRICE	#	COST[/b][/u]
[I]Valkyrie K[/I] (Ref.)	18e	5x	090e	
[I]Valkyrie N[/I] (Ref.)	28e	4x	112e
[I]Valkyrie D[/I] (Ref.)	20e	4x	080e
[I]Intersector[/I] class	134e	1x	134e
[I]Interpolator[/I] class	183e	1x	183e

[b]TOTAL					599/600e[/b]

[b]Other Costs:[/b] 361m / 388v / 0a / 4t / 187s

Advancers don't give a damn about high-Gs.

The Interpolater stays far the hell away and releases the Valkyries. The Intersector spawns nearby and assassinates whatever it can (ideally a command ship). Next turn, it boosts all Valkyries up to IP 8 for harassment. The Intersector closes and tries to frag whatever juicy target it can in support. This assumes this goes first, of course (it does have superior IS).

As mentioned above, it a straight fight it comes down to who guts who first. I have a suspicion there aren't quite enough interceptors here to ride it out, but again, I'm a tech level down.

Symphony D. · Feb 5, 2012

AGGRESSOR FLEET MANDRAKE 2

Comedy option variant. Rotates out the Valkyries for four Fenrirs (Refinement Costs: 927e / 257s). Otherwise the same. Strangely, they fit the Interpolater perfectly...

Spoiler Ship List :

Code:

[b]AGGRESSOR FLEET MANDRAKE 2[/b]

[b][u]NAME			PRICE	#	COST[/b][/u]
[i]Fenrir[/i] (Ref.)		69e	4x	276e
[i]Intersector[/i] class	134e	1x	134e
[i]Interpolator[/i] class	183e	1x	183e

[b]TOTAL					593/600e[/b]

[b]Other Costs:[/b] 249m / 410v / 0a / 4t / 170s

Pretty much the same plan as before. Difference is the Fenrirs bring 20 Interceptors, 8 Lances, and 4 Busters, instead of 16/15/8. They also have Dodge 5/6 (T4/T5) and IP Speed 8, so they're kind of ridiculous, if armored with tissue paper. Engagement plan is the same as previously: distraction/destruction while the laser tries to engage.

Kal'thzar · Feb 6, 2012

Thlayli said:
Yeah, particle fleets still suck. As kal has pointed out missile defense is still abysmal. Furthermore, if particle components are going to be as expensive as they are, they should be light and small to allow particle ships to ACTUALLY be high dodge as the design doc intends them to be.

I think that the amount of particle damage avoidance given by armor should be capped at 50% or some such number or there will be very little incentive to build shields ever.

One possible option would be to let coilgun ships give missile defense bonuses to their neighboring ships, because there's no real reason you couldn't use your flak ship to protect neighboring ships in an instance.

Shields work, you don't need that much to dampen out most particle damage (because particle damage is so low anyway).

At the moment I think:
Missiles should have a more mass, a bit more size: attempting to stop plasma/mirror sail derived interceptor ships (which is dependent on int and speed to hit), cost should also go up, including refined costs. Being able to stick 10 fission Busters on a ship going up against most dodge particle designs gives one hit a round, that one hit is likely to hurt because the particle ship will have low armour/shield AND low size (because it wants high dodge!) and hence a low life expectancy.

Next you cannot cover your bases by having a lot of ships because to get one that has high dmg output =>costs a stupid amount of e. Cheaper ships (~100e ~30 size) and they do tiny amounts of dmg and will get blown up a lot quicker.

EDIT: I had a hard time fitting a mag catapult onto a pure particle fleet, Comes out quite expensive. Managed it I think though. Just need to realise that the the ship sizes are smaller.

In that sense yes getting flak ships and making missile ships heavier and larger and more expensive is probably what I think needs to be done. I'll just present my latest particle fleet, I might change my mind with that!

BUGS

Mag catapults/ion jets do not display the mass of ship they will propel properly (wrong cell reference => now you need to look at two cells EM/Particle AND catapult).

Barrel casings do not boost Mag Catapult damage. Wrong cell reference in Mag catapult damage on CC page.

Are Pebble/laser Nets meant to have their missile defence value be raised to the power 0.53? (0.75 on CC page, 0.7 on Design page for missile defence). It seems incredibly punishing.

2 Commlinks are required for better Command Staff and Command Deck fleet int values. However, this breaks charm drives which has commlinks = 1, and the slave charm drive comment. I think there was another commlink = 1 somewhere, but I can't remember where.

Is negative shields possible? The Battle calculator cannot handle it.

Disenfrancised · Feb 6, 2012

On a general note, I think the beam pusher fleets people are kicking around are a bit hard-fail when the pusher ship gets eviscerated with long range weapons as the enemies primary fleet action.

Thlayli said:
Yeah, particle fleets still suck. As kal has pointed out missile defense is still abysmal. Furthermore, if particle components are going to be as expensive as they are, they should be light and small to allow particle ships to ACTUALLY be high dodge as the design doc intends them to be.

I don't see how they can be much smaller and lighter considering they're mass 0, 3 (refines to 1) and 1 already

. If I have one more person thinking particle weapons should have as high raw damage numbers as the other two I'm going to get irked.

I think that the amount of particle damage avoidance given by armor should be capped at 50% or some such number or there will be very little incentive to build shields ever.

I think you might change your tune after your armoured fleet gets owned by some ion jets. I also think you're doing it wrong or failing to check the battle calc, a six pack of coilguns will be averaging 10 damage per turn against 20 armour, for a mere 8 size, 14 mass with a DHe core. Doing the same DPT with lasers and DHe cores will take 20 size and 22 mass before you've even budgeted for the needed heat management.

One possible option would be to let coilgun ships give missile defense bonuses to their neighboring ships, because there's no real reason you couldn't use your flak ship to protect neighboring ships in an instance.

Give the time and space scales involved, that's dumb. This is not star trek or star wars with the ships breathing down each others necks.

Kal'thzar said:
Shields work, you don't need that much to dampen out most particle damage (because particle damage is so low anyway).

At the moment I think:
Missiles should have a more mass, a bit more size: attempting to stop plasma/mirror sail derived interceptor ships (which is dependent on int and speed to hit), cost should also go up, including refined costs. Being able to stick 10 fission Busters on a ship going up against most dodge particle designs gives one hit a round, that one hit is likely to hurt because the particle ship will have low armour/shield AND low size (because it wants high dodge!) and hence a low life expectancy.

Next you cannot cover your bases by having a lot of ships because to get one that has high dmg output =>costs a stupid amount of e. Cheaper ships (~100e ~30 size) and they do tiny amounts of dmg and will get blown up a lot quicker.

EDIT: I had a hard time fitting a mag catapult onto a pure particle fleet, Comes out quite expensive. Managed it I think though. Just need to realise that the the ship sizes are smaller.

In that sense yes getting flak ships and making missile ships heavier and larger and more expensive is probably what I think needs to be done. I'll just present my latest particle fleet, I might change my mind with that!

I may need to make missiles and lasers more expensive in terms of size and energy.

The MD diminishing returns function will be made somewhat less harsh, in addition the light missiles will be more strongly affected by MD.

Though I do think stuff like this T3 (though e expensive) design could do quite well against your missile fleet Kal.

SS Robberfly
6 x Metal Capacitors
10 x Pulse Drive
2 x Jammers
1 x Radiators
10 x Coilgun
1 x Lubricants
1 x Autoloaders

All components refined admittedly

). But with Dodge 5, MD 6 and -2 Int debuff it'll still be okay against your missile fleet at 102 e apiece. 'Course with V8 it'll have MD 13 and stomp missile boat face.

BUGS

Mag catapults/ion jets do not display the mass of ship they will propel properly (wrong cell reference => now you need to look at two cells EM/Particle AND catapult).

Barrel casings do not boost Mag Catapult damage. Wrong cell reference in Mag catapult damage on CC page.

2 Commlinks are required for better Command Staff and Command Deck fleet int values. However, this breaks charm drives which has commlinks = 1, and the slave charm drive comment. I think there was another commlink = 1 somewhere, but I can't remember where.

Is negative shields possible? The Battle calculator cannot handle it.

All fixed - you can't have negative shields.

Thlayli · Feb 6, 2012

So interceptors can protect neighboring ships but coilguns cannot?

That, frankly, makes no sense.

Disenfrancised · Feb 6, 2012

You fire a projectile at an opposing missile targeting a friendly ship in the same close instance as you. Since this isn't star trek or star wars, 'close' means within a hundred thousand kilometers. Travelling at some excess of ten thousand meters per second, the projectile takes an appreciable number of seconds to reach the place the opposing missile was. But it's not there, nor is the friendly ship, both have undergoing high and unpredictable changes in velocity and are thousands of meters away, and the projectile sails away into the void.

A missile interceptor will be continuously monitoring the enemy missile and will expend thrust to adjust course to match the enemy as it moves.

A missile aimed at you is easy to hit with projectiles as it's closer and due to the need to hit you itself the movement frame it can operate in is restricted.

This has been discussed in depth before.

Disenfrancised · Feb 6, 2012

Okay here we go with V8 Ship Designer V8 and Battle Calc V8

Change log

-Increased the armour and shield reduction to missile damage (so that's actually noticeable

)
-Armour cheaper and better
-Missiles bigger and heavier
-Lasers require more initial power
-MD considerably increased
-Commlinks now decrease EW skill
-Drives and powerplants performance tweaked upwards (also hotter)
-Bugs brought up in thread fixed
-Techs needed for component display bug fixed
-Burst Drive now reduces heat, Manifold drives heat reduction removed
-Missile avoidence now reduces the missile to hit chance from negative dodge
-Missile avoidance easier to accumulate in the ship designer
-External Hangers and External Pods cheaper, but now have dodge penalty as well as armour penalty

A ship design with the new model, also to remind people to consider the burst drive for applications.

SS Rugged Manliness (Tech Level 3)
22 x Burst Drive (Refined)
6 x Deuterium Drive
1 x Recyclers
1 x Hibernation Pods
10 x Coilgun
1 x Barrel Casings
1 x Plasma Shield
5 x Titanium Armour

With 13 armour, 3 Shield, and 6 Missile Avoidance (which means even with its -20 dodge lances and busters are only at 50% and 33% chance to hit at long range with the new model) and a whopping 83 size for Tech 3 the Rugged Manliness can take a solid whooping, enough to let escorted craft escape/deal some damage.

Disenfrancised · Feb 6, 2012

Kal is doing an excellent job with the fleet simulations and its always good to have fresh eyes on the problem.

So that something different is tested, I'm planning to simulate some army battles, after which I'll put out an updated army designer (with racial bonuses and a few new components). In that vein could I please have some 200e Attack and Defense army groups with max 30 Attributes which I'll do each submissions attack vs each other defense and each other attack.

Due to rounding errors, it may be more expensive to build an army in a certain order than other orders. Please report if you find such a way.

Symphony D. · Feb 6, 2012

Disenfrancised said:
On a general note, I think the beam pusher fleets people are kicking around are a bit hard-fail when the pusher ship gets eviscerated with long range weapons as the enemies primary fleet action.

The only thing that can reliably terminate a Laser pusher at range is another Laser pusher, and then it just boils down to who shoots first and/or who manages to connect if the power levels are high enough. It's really a high noon, wild west shootout. If both somehow manage to survive then it's down to whose distractions do a better job until one scores a hit. That side then almost certainly wins. It's unlikely something is going to get close enough while surviving both the laser ship and those distractions without getting murdered by one or the other short of overwhelming numerical superiority or as a very specialized counter.

Really high risk, really high reward. Call it the American solution, as opposed to the do-everything slug it out Soviet model.

... Unless you're saying missile swarms can cross AU-significant differences of hundreds of thousands of kilometers in a single combat turn, which makes no sense to me given the talk about reference frames and distances, nevermind that your distractions should be doing their best to mitigate such, or you can load up on cheap anti-missile counters. (As evidenced in these designs.) Particles are a joke at long-range combat, of course.

So unless everything burns to kill the Laser ship or the OpFor has a better one, I don't get this assertion. Knowing that your enemy has a Laser ship to begin with also sounds like a stretch, because there's no way a Sensor can tell you that unless you've seen the ship's returns before. If you hadn't, you wouldn't know that was the proper response until it lit something valuable the hell up.

The fact that a Laser ship can do literally millions of damage in a single shot with a pretty high chance of hitting (when even freaking antimatter missiles are doing a piddly 64) rather predisposes one toward seeking the one-shot, one-kill sniper fleet, in my estimation. If it weren't for the 600e resource restriction, and for us being limited to essentially tier-4 tech, I have no doubt a large enough (numerically or physically) fleet of Laser ships could always win if they were on the attack, by simply shrugging off anything small and totally incinerating everything large from a great distance, then just jumping away once they'd met their damage quota.

Symphony D. · Feb 6, 2012

AGGRESSOR FLEET ZAYTSEV

I can theory craft all day and say whatever, but let's put it to the test. Here's a T3 sniper fleet, CON4, NRG4, Advancer, Poor Safety:

Retribution class Laser Frigate

1 Twist Drive
7 DHe Fusion Core (Refined)
3 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Scanners
1 Gas Vents
8 Interceptors (Refined)
1 Microwave Beamer
4 Titanium Armor
1 Heavy Cladding

Cost: 146e (66e) / 50m / 109v / 0a / 0t / 54s
Size: 66 / Mass: 77 / IS: 7 / IP: 1
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 59 / Heat: -3
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: -18 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 21 / Shield: 1

EM Total Damage: 118L
Missile Total Damage: 8

---

Righteous class Command Frigate

1 Twist Drive
7 DHe Fusion Core (Refined)
3 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Recyclers
1 Hibernation Pods
1 Supply Section
1 Command Deck
1 Command Staff
1 Computer
2 Commlinks
1 Scanner
1 Gas Vents
4 Interceptors (Refined)
1 Plasma Shield
5 Titanium Armor
1 Heavy Cladding

Cost: 193e (87e) / 51m / 116v / 0a / 4t / 72s
Size: 75 / Mass: 77 / IS: 5 / IP: 1
Range: 2 / Power: 46 / Heat: -5
Init: 4 (12) / Dodge: -18 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 27 / Shield: 18

Missile Total Damage: 4
Init Bonus to Fleet: 8

---

Code:

[b]AGGRESSOR FLEET ZAYTSEV[/b]

[b][u]NAME			PRICE	#	COST[/b][/u]
[i]Retribution[/i] class	146e	3x	438e
[i]Righteous[/i] class		193e	1x	134e

[b]TOTAL					631/600e[/b]

[b]Other Costs:[/b] 201m / 443v / 0a / 4t / 126s
[b]Refined Costs:[/b] 1000e / 350s

It's a bit over on e, and v is modestly high but m and s are really cheap, and it's less ridiculous than assuming CON5 size limits with T3/4 junk in it, so let's roll with it.

This is a relatively low-tech, deep raid fleet of up to IS 5 striking range. It shows up at a respectable range and starts frying whatever it sees of value. If someone spams Missiles at it, it spams Interceptors back. If a bunch of tiny ships manage to reach it and try and board or whatever, it leaves while they're on the way. This is all about doing damage and bugging out before anyone can do anything about it.

The force-advantage you gain by slagging enemy HVTs gives you the breathing space to build more of these and then come back and do it again, with increasing effectiveness each time, with little chance of meaningful retribution.

I will be very shocked if this is easily countered without some sneaky EW shenanigans against the Righteous class or some ridiculous boarding ship swarms, in which case you can still just leave.

Disenfrancised · Feb 7, 2012

Symphony D. said:
The fact that a Laser ship can do literally millions of damage in a single shot with a pretty high chance of hitting (when even freaking antimatter missiles are doing a piddly 64) rather predisposes one toward seeking the one-shot, one-kill sniper fleet, in my estimation. If it weren't for the 600e resource restriction, and for us being limited to essentially tier-4 tech, I have no doubt a large enough (numerically or physically) fleet of Laser ships could always win if they were on the attack, by simply shrugging off anything small and totally incinerating everything large from a great distance, then just jumping away once they'd met their damage quota.

Fleeing combat requires an IP engagement check (since an IS jump isn't a flick of the switch thing). Anything with IP 4+ will be able to run down these laser frigates provided its not being distracted.

Additionally, though you can laser snipe the enemy, you will not do so before a missile ship has released its first volley. Though the parent ship might be dead, you will not be able to jump away before the missiles reach you (though I see you've dealt with that with interceptors).

But there are other ways to easily counter that fleet.

For example this little chap:

SS Pepperspray
2 x Metal Capacitors (Ref)
3 x Pulse Drive (Ref)
2 x Computer Module
1 x Ion Jet (Ref)
1 x Manoeuvring jets

Cannot be hit by the Zaytsev fleets beams, and takes more than a full volley of their interceptors to reliably kill. With IP 4 the Zaytsev cannot successfully move to either close range or flee, and whilst the Ion Jet will do piddly damage it will eventually int debuff the Zaytsev fleet into being unable to hit with their interceptors, and then grinder kill them. And you can build 20 of them for 600e. A larger IS version with burst drives is possible, but needs a better powerplant than the basic fusion core to achieve that required performance (though if we're allowing DHe Cores it's easy).

SS Pepperspray Hexadecimal
16x Burst Drive (Refined)
6x DHe Fusion Core (Refined)
16x Pulse Drive (Refined)
2x Computer Module
2x Ion Jet (Refined, uncoupled to start, redesign as coupled when facing higher shields)
1x Manoeuvring jets (Refined)

But anyway something like the Zaytsev fleet, that requires teching and refining in various fields should be quite hard to deal with.

Kal'thzar · Feb 7, 2012

Disenfrancised said:
Though I do think stuff like this T3 (though e expensive) design could do quite well against your missile fleet Kal.

SS Robberfly
6 x Metal Capacitors
10 x Pulse Drive
2 x Jammers
1 x Radiators
10 x Coilgun
1 x Lubricants
1 x Autoloaders

All components refined admittedly ). But with Dodge 5, MD 6 and -2 Int debuff it'll still be okay against your missile fleet at 102 e apiece. 'Course with V8 it'll have MD 13 and stomp missile boat face.

I'm not going to argue that with refined components particle ships kick ass, I've been staring at that stuff for a while

. The problem again is cost, hopefully with the MD change you put in this will make particle ships more affordable without needing to refine twice as many stuff!

I've been having a lot of fun with the burst stuff, the heat change makes them really fun!

Symphony D. said:
The only thing that can reliably terminate a Laser pusher at range is another Laser pusher, and then it just boils down to who shoots first and/or who manages to connect if the power levels are high enough. It's really a high noon, wild west shootout. If both somehow manage to survive then it's down to whose distractions do a better job until one scores a hit. That side then almost certainly wins. It's unlikely something is going to get close enough while surviving both the laser ship and those distractions without getting murdered by one or the other short of overwhelming numerical superiority or as a very specialized counter.

That's not true you've yet to put out a laser only fleet that can reliably knock out a missile fleet. I think this might be because you are placing your interceptors incorrectly. Interceptors take their parents int, and the target missile takes its parents int. Dodge is Parents IP - Interceptors Parent IP.

Your interceptors are on slow ships that rely on a command ship for int. Missile fleets will have their own source of computers for int and have a command ship in tow. I'm finding that a missile ship with Cybernetic trait hits a nice sweet spot at 6 int, plus 8 bonus int and you get 14 int. With no speed difference your interceptors have a 9% chance to intercept. With 1IP speed difference that drops to 0% intercept chance. Or if there are some jammer int debuffs and your interceptors are useless. So a combined jammer catapult/beamer fleet will wreck your laser only fleets.

You need to push your Interceptor launcher ships with a beamer, preferably on something REALLY fast already. Because I'm not sure if you can afford to refine jammers and spam them, placing a few wouldn't hurt though.

On the armour issue, yeah it bothers me. Or rather if armour/power to hp lost to hp per level all is fairly constant and its ok. Incidentally making EMP/Particle hilarious at high level.

Otherwise you just don't want to get hit...ever.

EDIT: Dis, at what range do sappers work?

EDIT: if armour remains half of laser output lasers do 4 dmg per shot. With the KAF i can get between 30 and 50 on the ships (12-5 dmg per shot). I'll put them up at lunch time.

Disenfrancised · Feb 7, 2012

Kal'thzar said:
Interceptors take their parents int, and the target missile takes its parents int. Dodge is Parents IP - Interceptors Parent IP.

Propulsion tech don't you mean?

Edit: Sappers are close range.

Kal'thzar · Feb 7, 2012

Disenfrancised said:
Propulsion tech don't you mean?

Edit: Sappers are close range.

*Blink* yes :blush:

My bad. still the int thing stands; missile fleets will excel at it and will want to excel at jammers, laser fleets will have a harder time finding space for all that and being able to push out enough dmg to hurt armoured foes.

Disenfrancised · Feb 7, 2012

Alright for V9 here's two prospective changes.

-EM Beamers are going to be bigger and heavier
-EM weapons will now produce heat proportional to the damage output

Kal'thzar · Feb 7, 2012

TECH/TRAITS: T3, CON4, ENG 4, Cyber.

ITF (Illosian Task Force)

Aegir Class Command Frigate

28 x Burst Drive
3 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Fission Rocket
1 x Light Sail
1 x Command Deck
1 x Command Staff
2 x Computer Module
2 x Commlinks
1 x Scanners
5 x Jammers (REF)
2 x Kinetic Lances
25 x Carbon Armour
1 x Heavy Cladding

Cost: 134e (60e) / 66m / 14v / 0a / 4t / 58s
Size: 140 / Mass: 84 / IS: 1 / IP: 1
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -5
Init: 6 (14) / Dodge: -33 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 43 / Shield: 0

Missile Total Damage: 12
Jammer Debuff: 5
Int Bonus to Fleet: 8

---

Baldric Class Supply Ship

7 x Burst Drive
2 x Fission Rocket
1 x Habitat Section
1 x Supply Section

Cost: 30e (14e) / 10m / 18v / 0a / 0t / 15s
Size: 34/ Mass: 20 / IS: 1 / IP: 1
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -5
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: -8 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 3 / Shield: 0

---

Skirnir Class Bomber Frigate

30 x Burst Drive
1 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Light Sail
5 x Computer Module
1 x Scanners
5 x Fission Busters (REF)
6 x Titanium Armour
35 x Carbon Armour

Cost: 114e (51e) / 77m / 17v / 0a / 0t / 44s
Size: 147/ Mass: 81 / IS: 1 / IP: 1
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 1 / Heat: -5
Init: 6 (14) / Dodge: -32 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 44 / Shield: 0

Missile Total Damage: 100

---

Vali Class Interceptor Frigate

29 x Burst Drive
1 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Light Sail
5 x Computer Module
1 x Scanners
10 x Interceptors (REF)
5 x Titanium Armour
35 x Carbon Armour

Cost: 120e (54e) / 69m / 27v / 0a / 0t / 46s
Size: 144/ Mass: 83 / IS: 1 / IP: 1
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 1 / Heat: -5
Init: 6 (14) / Dodge: -32 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 40 / Shield: 0

#Interceptors 10

---

Fleet

1 x Aegir
1 x Baldric
3 x Skirnir
1 x Vali

Costs: 602e/ 396m / 110v / 0a / 4t / 163s
Refined Costs: 1000e / 450s

(or 626 if you don't refine the Skirnir (included in fleet, not refinement cost))

Basically bang on for e, m/v costs are something that I am beginning to expect and doesn't require Exotic Gases either. If there was access to heavy Metals could drop the refinement in Fission Busters and build Heavy Fission busters and spend the rest of the e on refining a design to let loads more ships be built (could refine two or three designs actually...).

That's going to launch missiles that KAF cannot hit. Whilst the KAF lasers do piddly damage against them (also, my ships are HUGE they can take a lot of hits!). So the plan would be to launch missiles and attempt to close with as many enemy ships as possible, trapping them on the battle field.

The supply ship would ideally be left orbiting another planet or deep space, its going to get destroyed in any engagement.

Kal'thzar · Feb 7, 2012

Disenfrancised said:
Alright for V9 here's two prospective changes.

-EM Beamers are going to be bigger and heavier
-EM weapons will now produce heat proportional to the damage output

Prediction: Laser ships all move to Burst Designs. Depending on how big people want to build that's actually ok. (Con 7: 450 Burst Drive, 7 beams, maxes at 760 dmg or so, 100 armour pushes that dmg to 130 dmg which is about 1/10th of a ships health at that point IFF built to max construction size, everything else is rapidly slagged.

It works, and that was assuming a 1:1 ratio of dmg to heat which is probably going to get pushed up (5:1 or something ?). You could also push for more multi-beams by saying that the heat is the highest of all beam outputs (and coupling combinations).

Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission

Deity

Deity

Le Pétit Prince

Deity

Deity

Deity

Beep Beep

Le Pétit Prince

Beep Beep

Beep Beep

Beep Beep

Deity

Deity

Beep Beep

Deity

Beep Beep

Deity

Beep Beep

Deity

Deity

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