Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission

[Symphony D.]

Especially since the Esani never had access to any Prior ruins. Nor did anyone else, really.

 

[Thlayli]

Incidentally, poor qoou.

Can you edit his background to make it slightly more palatable the way you did with mine?

 

[qoou]

That's a better one qoou, though this pre-discovery of the priors in the chronology and Ansibyl pearls aren't in as a game mechanic, instead a single pearl based at Alnitah provides a coverage field. communications can be tracked by everyone, but are secure since you and your stuff will all be using one-time pads (indeed an important part of the intersystem trade is in cryptonium).

Its a game design decision - part of the old AP situation was to restrict the workload, hear I'm turning to more automation and BRUTAL UPKEEPS.

Ok; would you rather I replace all references to Priors and Prior artifacts then?

@qoou: btw I have had enough of people taking vulnerability to toxins - every planetary environment is now very toxic, enjoy!

*gulp*. Vulnerable to Cold any better ?

Edit:

Especially since the Esani never had access to any Prior ruins. Nor did anyone else, really.

Well. I didn't mean for them to be the kind of ruins that are actually useful. Just the kind that are small and don't do anything for you but frustrate you with your lack of knowledge. And happen to contain a few pearls, all but 3 of which you trade away over the decades. The 3 pearls thing from SysNES 1 is dead though, so nvm.



Economics calculator:
The last sheet of the file ("Example Civ") currently points to the Csserians, not the "Example Civ".

How much s do Specialists generate from teaching? Do any modifiers apply to that teaching s? Answered earlier.

This is all very interesting.

 

[Thlayli]

A high s system can apparently effortlessly create lots of e by data trading with itself. Bug or feature?

 

[qoou]

A high s system can apparently effortlessly create lots of e by data trading with itself. Bug or feature?

You should've stayed on #nes for another 10 minutes. I since understand the econ sheet a little bit better. So yes, a high-s producing system will lead to high data-trade shares, but it's a lot harder to get to that high-s point than I previously thought.

Trade is really fun to mess with.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Awwwwwwww.

Maybe if people had taken a break from the unrelenting bloodshed in SysNES1 they might have found out a thing or two.

Rewriting Qoou's:

The Yanii
Among the many factions of low technology Hiders scattered throughout the universe, the Yanii are one of the few to have come out of isolation on their own. Originally a small group of superstitious tribes in the equatorial regions of their chill planet, the Yanii were set on their current path several hundred years ago when they discovered annular barrows containing shards of material with unusal properties. Terrified at first, curiosity eventually took over and they began to study the relics. Though the Yanii shortly realized that they lacked the proper tools and expertise to make any headway, an obsession with understanding the artifacts formed.

Eventually the Yanii zetgeist decided to re-establish communications with outsiders in hopes of edification. Their first contact happened to be a Dathic expedition that readily exchanged glass beads and trickets for samples of these artifiacts. The Yanii may not have realised it at the time, but only a lingering fear of traces of the Mernt plague prevented Datha from assembling the resources to have them relocated and put their worlds archeological traces into more responsible hands. Soon becoming the lowliest of Dathas many clients, the Yanii flourished in their new position as lab assistants, and drew a great sense of their self worth from the discoveries, even as the relics themselves gradually flittered away to muesums and research house in Datha itself.

Eventually the wealth of relics dried up as the Yanii transitioned from a Hider clan into a culture of devoted if minor scholars, their relationships with the Dathic corporate entities and a strong backbone of information processing technology allowed them to position themselves in the media trade of the Spinward stars of the sector. As they rose their superstitions about the Barrow builders evolved into a folk faith and source of moral strength. The Apeilic-Datha War came and passed, and with it tens of thousands of refugees seeking sanctuary. The Yanii gladly welcomed this new stock, their culture already heavily influenced by the ideas of the Dathic coalition, and a new spirit of innovation rose.

(Serious how do you reconcile 'retreating to their studies' and 'assimilating the immigrant underclass now doing the work' )

With their world growing in population and diversity, the previously ad hoc Yanii establishment created the Republic of Yan. Lenient suffrage conditions led to more immigration and an established free market system led to greater profits for the traders, a job the ancient Yanii had looked upon as a chore. Despite this inflow of different cultures and values however, an almost religious reverence for the lost aliens was instilled into newly-arrived immigrants.

Despite Yan being a juicy target for the surge in pirate raiders with the Dathic aegis removed, the military is something the Yanii were never very interested in. Though the Republic of Yan has commissioned a token defensive fleet in recent years, traditionally defense has come from paying off pirate raiders who come along. Most pirates take this beneficial deal, as pillaging the Republic of Yan would take much longer than exacting tribute. It is nevertheless feared among Yanii commerical circles that one irrational Pirate leader is all that's needed to topple the Republic, especially after the crisis that afflicted the Zera. As such, traders have been petitioning the government to increase the size of the defense fleet to match the growing merchant fleet.

Also your values is pretty obviously faith and knowledge

I'm fed up with people taking aversion to toxic, yours is now vulnerable to Hot - enjoy!

Incidently for you Americans with a red-white-and-blue wedge the size of the washington monument in your heads about what republic has to mean, I'm going to put it explictly what I mean in this setting by republic.

-Strong rule of law and meritocratic equality under the law, and little/no private law.
-Leadership is choosen by the popular regard those individuals are held in by general society (this regard commonly shown via some sort of counting of population) and opporate under a proscribed series of rules
-Societal input into decision making only comes during said selection of leaders.

Thats it, all the european monarchies of the modern era would be with republic settings under SysNES rules.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Well. I didn't mean for them to be the kind of ruins that are actually useful. Just the kind that are small and don't do anything for you but frustrate you with your lack of knowledge. And happen to contain a few pearls, all but 3 of which you trade away over the decades. The 3 pearls thing from SysNES 1 is dead though, so nvm.

No, no one ever encountered any Prior ruins, their little indestructible and incomprehensible trinkets were looted from the ruins of dead younger (if still millions of years old) civilizations.

 

[Thlayli]

Yeah, the lack of private law thing is why I explicitly didn't have the Standards a Republic at start; private low-level wars on the planets of the Confederacy are discouraged but allowed to happen, as well as semi-legal warlordism.

There's a lot of Joseph Smiths down there on the lower political echelons, but as long as they don't get oppressive and occasionally contribute voluntary national duties (the Standards replacement for taxes) the military could care less. And the skirmishes breed good military recruits.

 

[Disenfrancised]

You should've stayed on #nes for another 10 minutes. I since understand the econ sheet a little bit better. So yes, a high-s producing system will lead to high data-trade shares, but it's a lot harder to get to that high-s point than I previously thought.

Trade is really fun to mess with.

IP trade also be quite strongly reduced in the most recent version of the economic calculator.

 

[Thlayli]

Game mechanics question: Can you build expensive things incrementally (pay for half the e this turn and the other half next turn) or do you need to stockpile e and pay for it all at once?

Edit: Also, does specialist s benefit from local s development bonuses?

 

[Symphony D.]

Quite sure it was said somewhere you had to save up.

---

What do we know of the nature of the Apeilic Iris itself? Since it polices Segmentum Alnitahium and is now the preeminent power in the overarching Sector that contains it, presumably it puts out a lot of comms traffic about itself. From what can be gleaned from the Local Background, they're militaristic (Power?) and corporatist (Corporate Economy?). What else do we know about their society, government, and culture?

Also, the Sector itself: presumably it's roughly based around the Orion Complex? As for the Apeilic Iris proper, I'd guess it's Theta-1 Orionis C, considering that's the star that does the most to light up the Orion Nebula (and is one of the hottest O-class stars nearby). Iota Orionis (Hatsya) seems like another possibility.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Game mechanics question: Can you build expensive things incrementally (pay for half the e this turn and the other half next turn) or do you need to stockpile e and pay for it all at once?

Edit: Also, does specialist s benefit from local s development bonuses?

You need to stockpile (just like in SysNES1), and no they do not (well they need a university to do research at all, so I guess that's a bonus )

 

[Thlayli]

So, there's a good chance that 1 undifferentiated t will produce more undifferentiated s than 1 specialist will produce specialized s, is that right?

 

[Disenfrancised]

What do we know of the nature of the Apeilic Iris itself? Since it polices Segmentum Alnitahium and is now the preeminent power in the overarching Sector that contains it, presumably it puts out a lot of comms traffic about itself. From what can be gleaned from the Local Background, they're militaristic (Power?) and corporatist (Corporate Economy?). What else do we know about their society, government, and culture?

Also, the Sector itself: presumably it's roughly based around the Orion Complex? As for the Apeilic Iris proper, I'd guess it's Theta-1 Orionis C, considering that's the star that does the most to light up the Orion Nebula (and is one of the hottest O-class stars nearby). Iota Orionis (Hatsya) seems like another possibility.

Well the conceit for the narrative portions of the updates were going to be reports on the Segmentum by the Apeilic Consul back their superiors, so more about them would be revealed in that.

Yes the surrounding sector is anchored by the Orion Complex, though I haven't hashed out precise boundaries or really intend too. The Iris at isn't at one of the true giants, and I hadn't picked a specific star. It's rather a binary where a large low density giant has significant mass flow to a smaller denser partner and that partner star has sufficient luminosity to push and energize this gas into a very wide and antimatter rich circumstellar disc.

Off the top of my head:
The Iris started off as a hyper-corporate venture, before generations of workers developed a sense of nationhood and staged a revolution (more dispassionate observers might credit the ossification and turnover of the contributed corporate parents over the centuries with the Apeilic success rather than their own efforts), after which they were relatively easily able to repel extrasystem threats. The Apeilics then continued on a Norway type model - with a massive resource managed for the national interest, though Dutch disease prevented export diversification. This second period (the 'Nation Period') saw low population growth by intentional planning once the Iris array reached its full expanse, to keep a stable population ratio to system incomes. The Apeilic nation of a few tens of millions was one of the attendees at the X|! conference on Datha and a minor signatory to the combined fleet. Technological improvements and increasing sector wide demand saw a dramatic increase in Apeilic wealth and several parts of the Iris array was modified for extremely high energy processes like Industrial Alchemy. This Flowering Period was accompanied by immigration of talent and extensive local cultural development, and numerous habitats of foreign and experimental cultural milieus were set up, though the base Apeilic socio-ethnic group remained dominant. It was during this flowering period that the current Apeilic governing style was set up and the pseudo-corporate entities connected with its industrial processes arose. The flowering period was brought to a close by the war with Datha. Generally a pacifistic and isolationist culture, the immense energy resources the Iris could bring to bear in its interplanetary defence were more than enough to ward off threats, and their contribution in the campaigns of the Dathic Coalition was generally supply roles. Once roused, the sleeping dragon seemed to field a near instant massive warfleet with impossibly powerful shields; in actuality array elements of the Iris itself outfitted with intersteller drives, that were gradually phased out in favour of purpose built warships as the war progressed. Their surprise fleet caught the Dathics off guard and gained many victories in the first years, and many of the Coalition partners who had had issues with Datha jumped at the chance to break its hegemony. The Apeilics soon found large numbers of groups they didn't really approve of rallying to their banner, and what was envisioned as a campaign to show strength and establish a parameter snowballed into something out of control. In victory the Apeilics found themselves in a position of power, fear and respect they had never desired or prepared for - the Apeilics had and continue to have no real interest in external systems or planets at all except as customers or tourist destinations. However intersteller trade was crumbling, half their coalition was sharpening knives and looking to settle scores in petty wars, a the numbers of pirate battened on the military surplus. Clearly someone had to restore order and trust to the sector, and the Apeilics rolled up their sleeves even as the images of Datha burning marched ahead of them.

Organisationally the Apeilic Iris is a dichotomy; on the one hand composed of tens of thousands of fiercely individualistic small habitats (easier to armour and large habitats would have currents induced in them by the iris), on the other possessing vast shared enterprises such as the Alchemy crucibles and the Iris itself. This is mirrored in their political set up. Technocrats and corporate leaders rise up through the ranks of the vast organisations (the Iris, the Orbital Traffic Office, the judiciary, the Universities, and now the Navy) to be recognised as Executors, a few dozen individuals in charge presenting and implementing policy. Above or to the side of them are Arbiters, elected by popular vote of every individual in the system and under constant round the clock scrutiny. Arbiters judge and review the Executors and other conflicts, and are constantly accountable in real time to the systemwide datasphere of citizenry, with electronic referenda on policy able to be conducted across all three hundred million Apeilics in under a few hours. Similarly each small habitat runs itself as a capitalist direct democracy. More heterodox worlds might have trouble with such a system, but the homogeneity of basic experience, high living standards and common enterprises of the Apeilics lead to quick and stable mandates. Though their industrial concerns are very cut throat outside the system, within the Iris they are curbed by the watching public. In person they are friendly albeit mercurial, and frequent with bad jokes, they tend to be stereotype prone (not irrationally disliking all outsiders, just some). Ethnically, thanks to a small starter gene pool and some modification, they are very small and slender waifish versions of the Dathic standard* with several zero-g and radiation adaptions such as gripping feet, non-shedding hair and skin, and very dark colouration.

They are [something you don't know yet] economy and [something you don't know yet] society options.

*The Dathic Standard is an even blend of caucasian and east asian genotypes (modern Uzbeks are a good guide for this), and very tall strapping and pretty in its ancestral form thanks to some general aesthetic tailoring.

So, there's a good chance that 1 undifferentiated t will produce more undifferentiated s than 1 specialist will produce specialized s, is that right?

Yes, otherwise why keep talent around at all?

 

[Symphony D.]

 

[qoou]

Rewriting Qoou's:

Thank you!



Econ calculator:

- Due to a square root you use, currently pop spread out over a few habs can generate significantly more t than if you stuck all that pop in one hab. As far as I can tell, 5 habs with 5 pop each generate roughly 47% more talent than 1 hab with 25 pop and a university. #nes tells me this is likely bad.

- Why is it that people like to move to places with financial markets, and only that kind of market? Edit: Actually I'm fairly sure that's another typo, since you repeat the same term twice. Row 13 on the Growth page, that second 49 should be a 50?

- Is the Pop Attractiveness in the econ sheet supposed to also cover immigration from other cultures? I’m assuming not, because it uses your culture’s modifiers. How then will immigration be calculated?

- I believe there is a typo in the attractiveness calculations: instead of harsh_mod, you use pleasant_mod. The 10/(world_value+1)*pleasant_mod part. Both talent attractiveness and population attractiveness have this. (Growth page R22-23)

 

[Symphony D.]

Now with rough positional data:



Guessing Yanii are outright in Spinward based on their description, but decided not to put them down without confirmation of that.

 

[Disenfrancised]

- Due to a square root you use, currently pop spread out over a few habs can generate significantly more t than if you stuck all that pop in one hab. As far as I can tell, 5 habs with 5 pop each generate roughly 47% more talent than 1 hab with 25 pop and a university. #nes tells me this is likely bad.

Talent generation probabilities are rather changed now but yes, a slew of medium sized regions is somewhat better at generating talent. The problem is getting talent to stay there or populating those medium regions in the first place.

- Why is it that people like to move to places with financial markets, and only that kind of market? Edit: Actually I'm fairly sure that's another typo, since you repeat the same term twice. Row 13 on the Growth page, that second 49 should be a 50?

Jorbs, and the second one is a shipping market.

- Is the Pop Attractiveness in the econ sheet supposed to also cover immigration from other cultures? I’m assuming not, because it uses your culture’s modifiers. How then will immigration be calculated?

No I bloody explained this earlier, inter society immigration is by mod fiat, and when I see people leaving and returning to the same habitat repetitively.

- I believe there is a typo in the attractiveness calculations: instead of harsh_mod, you use pleasant_mod. The 10/(world_value+1)*pleasant_mod part. Both talent attractiveness and population attractiveness have this. (Growth page R22-23)

Yes that's fixed.

 

[qoou]

the second one is a shipping market.

Right, that's what I thought it should be; both terms currently point to the financial market though.

No I bloody explained this earlier, inter society immigration is by mod fiat, and when I see people leaving and returning to the same habitat repetitively.

Why not run it off the existing attractiveness system (modified a bit ofc) with just a lower weight (that would probably depend on foreign stresses) instead?

Typo in social stress calculation (B35 on faction page). You have the “if e development is under 0.6, stress goes up” term written twice, instead of having it and “if s development is under 0.6, stress goes up” both once. Edit: I think you already found this.

I’m not certain what a media centre is meant to represent. But its negative stress contribution is affected by the size of the local shipping market?

You don’t actually use the “farm production” social modifier, I don’t think. Shouldn’t that be applied to farms in the f production cell?

The “network effect” social modifier is also not used; instead, you use the “financial effect” modifier twice when talking about networks in the s production cell.

What exactly does the scholarly trait do? Just halve the s upkeep of specialists? Because, well, specialists seem to only have a token s upkeep currently.

 

[Disenfrancised]

No as in its already fixed.
bad copypaste obviously will fix
its sum market value bonus that it provides destress from, it also provides destress to all other habs based on its market.
fixed
It lets you have 4 specialist teach per university rather than 3, and changes a lot of policy weightings.

Right, that's what I thought it should be; both terms currently point to the financial market though.


Why not run it off the existing attractiveness system (modified a bit ofc) with just a lower weight (that would probably depend on foreign stresses) instead?

Typo in social stress calculation (B35 on faction page). You have the “if e development is under 0.6, stress goes up” term written twice, instead of having it and “if s development is under 0.6, stress goes up” both once. Edit: I think you already found this.

I’m not certain what a media centre is meant to represent. But its negative stress contribution is affected by the size of the local shipping market?

You don’t actually use the “farm production” social modifier, I don’t think. Shouldn’t that be applied to farms in the f production cell?

The “network effect” social modifier is also not used; instead, you use the “financial effect” modifier twice when talking about networks in the s production cell.

What exactly does the scholarly trait do? Just halve the s upkeep of specialists? Because, well, specialists seem to only have a token s upkeep currently.