President Obama Raises the Overtime Salary Threshold

[civvver]

I don't think this goes far enough though. I would like to see a law that requires employers to state how many hours are considered standard for every single position, and then be required to pay overtime for any time worked over the stated "standard hours". That way employers couldn't get around paying overtime by only hiring part time employees since even part timers would be eligible for overtime under such a law.

For example: the law I would like to see would require an employer to tell someone upon hiring "we are hiring you for a 25-hour work week." So if the employee is required to work longer (say, a retail cashier during the holiday shopping season), and ends up working a 30-hour week, that extra 5 hours would be paid at the overtime rate (which in my ideal world would be double pay, instead of time-and-a-half).

Uh, that just sounds dumb. No one would ever want to apply for a 40 hour a week job in that case, they'd rather get two 20 hour ones then make time and a half or double when one needs them more.

But for salaried workers, typically the company tells you up front what you're expected to work. For most technical professionals it's 40-45 hours a week with occasional overtime during crunch times. The shady part is when they say occasional, you never know if it's like once or twice a year you work a 60 hour week or if it's like once a month.

I would suspect other jobs are like this too. I know a couple cpa's and around tax season they literally work 80-100 hours a week, 16 hour days plus weekends sometimes. They might do this for two or three months. It just kind of comes with the trade I guess.

 

[Commodore]

Uh, that just sounds dumb. No one would ever want to apply for a 40 hour a week job in that case, they'd rather get two 20 hour ones then make time and a half or double when one needs them more.

You say this like 40-hour a week jobs are somehow a necessity. This has been proven many times to be patently false as just about every other economy that is comparable to the US runs effectively and efficiently on a much shorter work week.

The idea behind the law that I propose is exactly the scenario you describe. The idea is to force US companies to shorten their work week for the health and welfare of their employees, since we all know they won't do it on their own. It's also about creating an economy that favors the workers (you know, the people that keep everything ticking over) instead of favoring the employers.

 

[BvBPL]

If my boss asks me to work overtime without compensation, I can just go to HR and report him. What protections do American walmart workers have for such things? Do they have a way to report any injustice without the fear of being fired?

If an employee is exempt from overtime laws then her employer can basically ask her to work any number of hours in a week without additional overtime compensation.

Most employees are not exempt from overtime compensation. Executive, managerial, and professional employees making more than the new figure of fifty thousand are exempt from receiving additional overtime compensation as a matter of law. A number of specifically defined professions, such as fisherfolk, are also exempt.

Some employers have been inaccurately classifying their workers as falling under the executive, managerial, and professional exemptions as a means to deny their employees overtime compensation. A number pay their managers less than fifty thousand a year so those managers will now be eligible for overtime compensation under this rules change.

A past employer of mine compensated exempt workers who put in more than forty hours in a week with additional paid time off, which seems a nice compromise.

 

[illram]

I'm stealing that for my website copy.

 

[BvBPL]

I've considered setting up shop as a legal website content provider. For a variety of reasons, I choose not to pursue that field. I may have missed a calling there.

 

[Harv]

I'm stealing that for my website copy.

Your website copy?

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

 

[illram]

I've considered setting up shop as a legal website content provider. For a variety of reasons, I choose not to pursue that field. I may have missed a calling there.

Those SEO guys charge an arm and a leg; you can make some good money doing that on the side if you find the right in.

Your website copy?

Employment law related content--standard employment lawyer website stuff.

I actually have all of mine already I just am too lazy to actually transfer it all to wordpress. My website is just pictures of me and my partners and our phone number and a contact form....

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm an employer. We have 40 employees. I have 3 managers who are salaried and who make less than $50K. They work 40 to 50 hours most weeks, have lots of schedule flexibility and can take time during the day for personal stuff on and off the property. They do not clock in or out. In addition to their salary, they get 8 paid holidays, 3 weeks of PTO, 5% 401 K matching, near zero cost for an excellent Healthcare program (company cost > $5,000), and life insurance. It is a pretty sweet deal for typically, non degreed, but experienced people. If I have to pay them over time for hours over 40, I expect I will have to make them clock in and out and eliminate all of their schedule flexibility so they have to act as if they are hourly.

TBH, that makes them less useful to me. We pay well so that I can ask more of them and have them available to meet unexpected needs in our operations that go beyond their normal work day. I'd want to cut their pay by $3K to compensate for the loss of utility.

 

[Labtec600]

In my experience, OT only benefited those that couldnt get there work done during their normal time. Didnt make much sense.

 

[LucyDuke]

I get really bummed out when rules like this to prevent abuses end up spoiling healthy arrangements.

BJ:
If you're going to have to act as if they are hourly, what's preventing you from paying them an hourly wage that over time averages to their current salary?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'm an employer. We have 40 employees. I have 3 managers who are salaried and who make less than $50K. They work 40 to 50 hours most weeks, have lots of schedule flexibility and can take time during the day for personal stuff on and off the property. They do not clock in or out. In addition to their salary, they get 8 paid holidays, 3 weeks of PTO, 5% 401 K matching, near zero cost for an excellent Healthcare program (company cost > $5,000), and life insurance. It is a pretty sweet deal for typically, non degreed, but experienced people. If I have to pay them over time for hours over 40, I expect I will have to make them clock in and out and eliminate all of their schedule flexibility so they have to act as if they are hourly.

TBH, that makes them less useful to me. We pay well so that I can ask more of them and have them available to meet unexpected needs in our operations that go beyond their normal work day. I'd want to cut their pay by $3K to compensate for the loss of utility.

Or you could just pay them a few more dollars, and hold off getting that new car one or two more years than you now do.

 

[Birdjaguar]

In my experience, OT only benefited those that couldnt get there work done during their normal time. Didnt make much sense.

Many management jobs are not tied to daily or regular work output, but are tied to solving problems and overseeing operations. I had a manager who had to come in at 2:30 AM this morning while a vendor remotely installed a software patch. Not only was the vendor late to log in (overslept), but the install failed on their end. That screwed up operations all morning so that she had to hang around and keep everything on track when she was supposed to go home. She won't get extra pay, but I did give her 8 hours of additional PTO.

 

[LucyDuke]

Or you could just pay them a few more dollars, and hold off getting that new car one or two more years than you now do.

Jesus Christ, Marie. He's one of the good guys.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Or you could just pay them a few more dollars, and hold off getting that new car one or two more years than you now do.

I drive a 2009!

We gave all of our hourly employees a $2/hr raise this year; they are all full time too.

 

[BvBPL]

I'm an employer.

Do you already have a time clock system for your junior employees?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Do you already have a time clock system for your junior employees?

We do. And by adding salaried peopled to it will add some small amount of review and payroll review time to the work of others. In addition, I think time clocks are demeaning and a necessity I wish we could do without. We installed a fingerprint reader device a couple of years ago, but it is not as reliable as we expected. I'd like an RFID system that folks could wave at and then hit an I or O button. Unfortunately those involve cards that can passed around. It is too bad that people will try to game most systems.

 

[illram]

BJ, does your jurisdiction allow comp time for private employers? If so you could pay them with 1.5 hours of PTO rather than cash.

Can you lower their hourly rate to a point where if they do truly average 5 to 10 OT hours per week they still wind up receiving the same amount?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I drive a 2009!

We gave all of our hourly employees a $2/hr raise this year; they are all full time too.

Well, $2 is $4K/yr. x 40 is $160K/yr.

I'm sure they appreciate it. But it pales in comparison to the business owner who doubled the wages of his lowest paid workers immediately, and will be dramatically raising everybody's wages while he gives himself a massive cut.

If you don't make much more than $50K yourself, I can understand why you don't want to pay your managers more. But if you make substantially more as I expect you do, I'm going to side with Obama on this one. I'm sure you can find some way to come up with the difference.

You might also want to consider leasing a car, and charging it as a business expense like so many other employers do.

 

[Birdjaguar]

BJ, does your jurisdiction allow comp time for private employers? If so you could pay them with 1.5 hours of PTO rather than cash.

Can you lower their hourly rate to a point where if they do truly average 5 to 10 OT hours per week they still wind up receiving the same amount?

We really can't give PTO in lieu of wages on anything but an ad hoc out of the ordinary situations. It is an interesting idea though. For people making less than $30K paycheck cash is king and they need it to get by. Getting across the board raises without demonstrated performance improvements can be a tough sell. We use our rich benefit package to offset the only "above average" wages.

Well, $2 is $4K/yr. I'm sure they appreciate it. But it pales in comparison to the business owner who doubled the wages of his lowest paid workers immediately, and will be dramatically raising everybody's wages while he gives himself a massive cut.

If you don't make much more than $50K yourself, I can understand why you don't want to pay your managers more. But if you make substantially more as I expect you do, I'm going to side with Obama on this one. I'm sure you can find some way to come up with the difference.

And you might want to consider leasing a car and charging it as a business expense like so many other employers do.

I am well paid, but see no reason to add my car expenses to the company just because I could do so. I work hard to earn my pay and keep frivolous expenses to a minimum. We are a thin margin business and rely on high volumes to make our money. Our Gross Profit runs about 20% and about 40% of that already goes to payroll and benefits.

 

[Harv]

I'm an employer. We have 40 employees. I have 3 managers who are salaried and who make less than $50K. They work 40 to 50 hours most weeks, have lots of schedule flexibility and can take time during the day for personal stuff on and off the property. They do not clock in or out. In addition to their salary, they get 8 paid holidays, 3 weeks of PTO, 5% 401 K matching, near zero cost for an excellent Healthcare program (company cost > $5,000), and life insurance. It is a pretty sweet deal for typically, non degreed, but experienced people. If I have to pay them over time for hours over 40, I expect I will have to make them clock in and out and eliminate all of their schedule flexibility so they have to act as if they are hourly.

TBH, that makes them less useful to me. We pay well so that I can ask more of them and have them available to meet unexpected needs in our operations that go beyond their normal work day. I'd want to cut their pay by $3K to compensate for the loss of utility.

It is interesting that we have a small businessman and an employment lawyer checking in to this discussion. When I first posted the article, I was thinking about a pattern of abuse of the system, such as what was quoted here:

Some employers have been inaccurately classifying their workers as falling under the executive, managerial, and professional exemptions as a means to deny their employees overtime compensation.

However what I quoted above does not come across as an abuse of the rules. (It comes across as coming from a small businessman's perspective.) What I put in bold shows something given (privileges) in exchange for the general expectation of extra hours.

For all the talk radio I listen to, there was discussion about the Overtime Salary Threshold and that it would ultimately impact the employees it was supposed to benefit - but no mention of small business.

Throwing this one out there: One place I worked at offered a bonus in lieu of overtime for salaried employees. They sign a piece of paper stating that they worked an average of at least 45 hours per week and qualify for a bonus. It was less than what time and a half would have been, but I think it served as documentation to cover for the fact that some of these people may have been salaried, but not exempt.

But if you make substantially more as I expect you do, I'm going to side with Obama on this one. I'm sure you can find some way to come up with the difference.

Even if he did, it is a compensation for the risk he is taking for going into business and providing 40 jobs instead of going out there and finding a job himself.