Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Thank you guys, please settle down. The new map looks fine, and it's more accurate than the old map which is the important thing.
Preview Thread: TNESII - Et In Arcadia Ego
- Thread starter Thlayli
- Start date
Abaddon
Deity
An Thlayli, I have no problem accepting it. I was merely pointing out I prefere the older style maps.
If Kraz hadn't so rudly interjected the subject would be over.
Kraz, i'm not interested in debating shades of grey with you. It is my opinion, you have yours.
If Kraz hadn't so rudly interjected the subject would be over.
Kraz, i'm not interested in debating shades of grey with you. It is my opinion, you have yours.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Aesthetically, I do like the old Jason map. But borders get screwed up. Which is why I had NK import the old city and border styles to the new map.
That's the best compromise I think.
That's the best compromise I think.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Well of course the old Jason map is aesthetically pleasing, we drew it that way. But it is an immense pain to try and get any borders on there. I mean, the English-French border usually looks okay, but the rest of it...
Kraznaya
Princeps
Actually, I question the taste of anyone who finds the old map aesthetically pleasing for any reason but nostalgia.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Has anyone seen das? I'm of the opinion that he's dead.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
I've always interpreted the river to be the Guadalquivir in both instances, and taken in context of other maps from multiple althistorians bears out this observation. The case can be made, of course, and I certainly won't deny that it makes infinitely more sense if we leave Portugal's borders as IRL, but... I try to replicate.
He's been dead for ages, silly.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Sorry for the slowness on this. Stats are progressing, and this NES *should* start in roughly a week.
Put your pre-gaming into high speed, folks.
Put your pre-gaming into high speed, folks.
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
Good, I was already starting to get worried there. 
Abaddon
Deity
I'm essentially AWOL, but please consider me about!
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Adana should be fine for you.
Abaddon, you can have Bengal, as "Nordstream" seems to be missing in action.
Abaddon, you can have Bengal, as "Nordstream" seems to be missing in action.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Okay, after consulting the ancient authorities and tweaking my mechanics, here is the tentative final draft of the ruleset.
TNESII: ET IN ARCADIA EGO
Nation/Capital:
Leader/Player:
Size:
Government:
Bureaucracy:
Income:
Taxation:
Quality of Life:
Confidence:
Army:
Navy:
Military Description:
Technology:
Colonies:
Society:
Nation Description:
Size:
This combines the number of people living in your country with the amount of territory under your control. For colonial empires, colonies and the collective empire have separate size stats. Occupying enemy areas can eventually increase your size, but have to be peacefully integrated (and taxed) in order to contribute to income. A larger size will increase your upkeep, but potentially your income as well.
Tiny Small Medium Above Medium Large Huge Titanic
Government:
This describes your nations type of government. As players, you represent the executive, or dominant organ of power, whether represented by a monarch, prime minister, or ruling party. Democratic, parliamentary, and decentralized states may encounter more resistance to new policies and decisions enacted by the government. Ratification of treaties and declarations of war and peace MAY be contingent on legislative approval. A higher confidence will make the government run much more smoothly.
You may change your government (with difficulty) or it may be changed for you. Stability ratings go from +3 to -3. Lower stability will make events like coups or rebellions far more likely.
Bureaucracy:
The army of civil service professionals that scurry about and do the governments will. If Bureaucracy is low, government responses will be sluggish and unprepared for unexpected events. An efficient bureaucracy will ensure that all your assigned funds go EXACTLY where you intend them to, instead of into the pocket of some provincial official. Local law enforcement and justice systems are also covered by this stat. A high Bureaucracy stat also improves campaign logistics.
Useless Corrupt Wasteful Inconsistent Decent Competent Organized Efficient Brilliant
Income:
Economy follows the formula of (Agriculture/Industry/Trade) - (Upkeep) = Income.
Base income totals are determined by your development in certain areas and your taxation level. Certain factors like arable land area, industrialization levels, and colonies contribute to different areas of income. Upkeep is partially determined by the military size, and partially by the total land area of the empire, colonies included.
Players can either attempt to alter their base income, or modify their upkeep. Income can be deducted as a result of blockades, piracy, economic downturns, or war. It can also increase by colonial expansion, resource acquisition, and raising taxation, though the latter may cause confidence problems. If your income changes, I will typically note the cause and the amount.
Upkeep will steadily rise if players choose to expand their military, forcing them to make creative choices in order to sustain their growth. This is not a bug, its a feature. Income that remains unspent at the end of the turn will be lost, or in a best-case scenario auto-invested.
Taxation:
This is a qualitative level set by you. Your population (size) base provides taxes, which translates into income. Raising taxation will increase your income, but will lower confidence, especially if you have a low quality of life.
Minimal Light Moderate Balanced Significant Heavy Crushing
Quality of Life:
The term living standards is largely inappropriate by the modern era, as every society has upper, middle and lower classes in good supply. This stat broadly summarizes the amount of income expended by the government on the welfare or well being of its citizens, and summarizes the overall domestic prosperity of the society. Income dedicated to education, public works, social services, pensions and other benefits are all amalgamated here. It also affects the general economic condition of your population. Be careful with this stat, as it can be changed by government investment or random events. Generally, this stat will drop if regular payments are not made to upkeep it. If it drops, expect resentment, especially if accompanied by higher taxes.
Squalid Very Poor Poor Meager Tolerable Decent High Very High Splendid
Confidence:
The national approval ratings for the actions of the government, and for you, yes you. High confidence is important for domestic tranquility, and for keeping your job. Military success, economic prosperity, and stable governments tend to encourage confidence. Random events can lower it, as will any mistake that you inevitably make. This stat swings rapidly, and you can do plenty of things to help it recover. But if it gets too low, the next election may change the policies of the government or the next coup may change your location from palace to prison.
Rebellious Hateful Unhappy Discontent Tolerating Respecting Admiring Loving Fanatical
Military:
Your land and naval military is organized into armies and fleets. Colonial garrisons and militia are separate and listed under colonial stats, not including expeditionary forces. Many nations at peacetime will have one mass of troops and/or ships, which are presumed to be evenly dispersed throughout the provinces/ports of your nation. Especially for wartime, players are encouraged to attach armies and fleets to specific regions. These designations will be listed in the stats. A veteran expeditionary force will have a very different composition than a newly recruited home army.
Every army, or the armed forces as a whole, carries a Quality level. This is an amalgamation of training and experience. The levels are listed here:
Rabble Green Tolerable Normal Better Good Veteran Professional Elite
The more technologically advanced the army fielded, the larger the upkeep cost will be. Additionally, producing troops with a higher starting Quality takes longer, and carries a higher initial cost.
The base purchasing costs are:
Rabble: .5 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Green: 1 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Tolerable: 1.5 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Normal: 2 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Better: 2.5 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Good: 3 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons (1 turn wait)
Veteran, Professional, and Elite troops/ships cannot be built. In peacetime, some units can rise to a Veteran level. Professional and Elite level units can only be gained through combat.
Upkeep: Upkeep costs are directly subtracted from your income (by your bureaucrats) so you (the ruler) dont have to worry about it. Upgrading more than 10-15 divisions to a higher quality level will cause an increase in upkeep. Recruiting more than 10 divisions will cause an increase in upkeep, unless your economy is mobilized for war.
Mobilization: If a country mobilizes for war, it gains (after some preparation) the ability to conscript and recruit large numbers of soldiers. Conscription rules are below. Additionally, military upkeep costs drop significantly. The cost for mobilization is a temporary rise in taxation, which may or may not be offset by patriotic feelings preventing a drop in confidence. Demobilization after a war will require disbanding many wartime troops, and upkeep costs will return to normal.
Conscripts and Irregulars: Conscripts can be drafted at a Green quality level for 10 divisions per economic point, or as Rabble for free. They cannot improve beyond Normal, barring exceptional circumstances. Typically mass conscription requires a state of war. Limits for conscription are dependent on population (Size) and political/economic restrictions. Most nations can rely upon a minimum of 30 conscript divisions in time of dire need. Irregular militias of varying quality may sometimes spring up if your territory is attacked, AND if the population hasnt already been conscripted. They can be useful, but only in their home areas. Inquire for specific conscription limits.
Logistics: Logistics must be paid for. Military campaigns require logistical support and a solid line of supply. Standard overland offensives require at least 1 EP of logistical support, typically more. Overseas campaigns and major assaults may cost more. Inquire for details.
Colonial Military: Colonial militia, garrison troops and native allies will be listed in the Colonies section. However, even if fleets are assigned to colonial ports, they will remain listed (along with their home port) in the main Navy section.
Technology:
This area summarizes your domestic technology, noting both advanced areas and those falling behind. It quickly summarizes a range of areas where you can spend money, to give your nation a special advantage or catch up to the rest of the pack. Benefits are intangible but significant (well-targeted) spending can result in income increases, special weapons, or positive military outcomes.
Colonies:
Colonial stats are divided into four portions: A colony ranking, size stat, confidence ranking, and a military overview. More information on your specific colonies can be obtained, though if you ask too many questions the mod will be somewhat annoyed with you.
Outpost Backwater Unimportant Minor Viable Productive Valuable Wealthy Crown Jewel
Invest in your colonies, and they shall invest in you! Colonies can be a major source (or drain) of Income.
Society:
Every nation has unique traits and values. Some of these are consistently expressed as a sort of cultural ethic. These can be both a blessing and a curse, and have myriad effects. Some are consistently on the positive side, like martial courage or commercial expertise. Other traits like pious or democratic have benefits and drawbacks, while some, like urban dissent or internal corruption are mostly negative. Basically a status report on the pulse of your nation, society can grant bonuses or maluses at unexpected times. Keep them in mind when making plans. Like all stats, these can change over time.
Other Spending:
Significant spending over time to a broad goal like better ships may give you a result or maybe not. You can also target specific goals such as building an espionage/intelligence network, creating fortifications, founding colonies, placating certain elements of your population, or anything you can imagine a government spending money on in the real world.
Economy points can be loaned/traded/given between nations, or used to undermine other nations' stability by provoking incidents. Investing in your own stability rating and/or a counter-intelligence network can help prevent this.
TNESII: ET IN ARCADIA EGO
Nation/Capital:
Leader/Player:
Size:
Government:
Bureaucracy:
Income:
Taxation:
Quality of Life:
Confidence:
Army:
Navy:
Military Description:
Technology:
Colonies:
Society:
Nation Description:
Size:
This combines the number of people living in your country with the amount of territory under your control. For colonial empires, colonies and the collective empire have separate size stats. Occupying enemy areas can eventually increase your size, but have to be peacefully integrated (and taxed) in order to contribute to income. A larger size will increase your upkeep, but potentially your income as well.
Tiny Small Medium Above Medium Large Huge Titanic
Government:
This describes your nations type of government. As players, you represent the executive, or dominant organ of power, whether represented by a monarch, prime minister, or ruling party. Democratic, parliamentary, and decentralized states may encounter more resistance to new policies and decisions enacted by the government. Ratification of treaties and declarations of war and peace MAY be contingent on legislative approval. A higher confidence will make the government run much more smoothly.
You may change your government (with difficulty) or it may be changed for you. Stability ratings go from +3 to -3. Lower stability will make events like coups or rebellions far more likely.
Bureaucracy:
The army of civil service professionals that scurry about and do the governments will. If Bureaucracy is low, government responses will be sluggish and unprepared for unexpected events. An efficient bureaucracy will ensure that all your assigned funds go EXACTLY where you intend them to, instead of into the pocket of some provincial official. Local law enforcement and justice systems are also covered by this stat. A high Bureaucracy stat also improves campaign logistics.
Useless Corrupt Wasteful Inconsistent Decent Competent Organized Efficient Brilliant
Income:
Economy follows the formula of (Agriculture/Industry/Trade) - (Upkeep) = Income.
Base income totals are determined by your development in certain areas and your taxation level. Certain factors like arable land area, industrialization levels, and colonies contribute to different areas of income. Upkeep is partially determined by the military size, and partially by the total land area of the empire, colonies included.
Players can either attempt to alter their base income, or modify their upkeep. Income can be deducted as a result of blockades, piracy, economic downturns, or war. It can also increase by colonial expansion, resource acquisition, and raising taxation, though the latter may cause confidence problems. If your income changes, I will typically note the cause and the amount.
Upkeep will steadily rise if players choose to expand their military, forcing them to make creative choices in order to sustain their growth. This is not a bug, its a feature. Income that remains unspent at the end of the turn will be lost, or in a best-case scenario auto-invested.
Taxation:
This is a qualitative level set by you. Your population (size) base provides taxes, which translates into income. Raising taxation will increase your income, but will lower confidence, especially if you have a low quality of life.
Minimal Light Moderate Balanced Significant Heavy Crushing
Quality of Life:
The term living standards is largely inappropriate by the modern era, as every society has upper, middle and lower classes in good supply. This stat broadly summarizes the amount of income expended by the government on the welfare or well being of its citizens, and summarizes the overall domestic prosperity of the society. Income dedicated to education, public works, social services, pensions and other benefits are all amalgamated here. It also affects the general economic condition of your population. Be careful with this stat, as it can be changed by government investment or random events. Generally, this stat will drop if regular payments are not made to upkeep it. If it drops, expect resentment, especially if accompanied by higher taxes.
Squalid Very Poor Poor Meager Tolerable Decent High Very High Splendid
Confidence:
The national approval ratings for the actions of the government, and for you, yes you. High confidence is important for domestic tranquility, and for keeping your job. Military success, economic prosperity, and stable governments tend to encourage confidence. Random events can lower it, as will any mistake that you inevitably make. This stat swings rapidly, and you can do plenty of things to help it recover. But if it gets too low, the next election may change the policies of the government or the next coup may change your location from palace to prison.
Rebellious Hateful Unhappy Discontent Tolerating Respecting Admiring Loving Fanatical
Military:
Your land and naval military is organized into armies and fleets. Colonial garrisons and militia are separate and listed under colonial stats, not including expeditionary forces. Many nations at peacetime will have one mass of troops and/or ships, which are presumed to be evenly dispersed throughout the provinces/ports of your nation. Especially for wartime, players are encouraged to attach armies and fleets to specific regions. These designations will be listed in the stats. A veteran expeditionary force will have a very different composition than a newly recruited home army.
Every army, or the armed forces as a whole, carries a Quality level. This is an amalgamation of training and experience. The levels are listed here:
Rabble Green Tolerable Normal Better Good Veteran Professional Elite
The more technologically advanced the army fielded, the larger the upkeep cost will be. Additionally, producing troops with a higher starting Quality takes longer, and carries a higher initial cost.
The base purchasing costs are:
Rabble: .5 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Green: 1 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Tolerable: 1.5 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Normal: 2 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Better: 2.5 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons
Good: 3 EP per 5 divisions/squadrons (1 turn wait)
Veteran, Professional, and Elite troops/ships cannot be built. In peacetime, some units can rise to a Veteran level. Professional and Elite level units can only be gained through combat.
Upkeep: Upkeep costs are directly subtracted from your income (by your bureaucrats) so you (the ruler) dont have to worry about it. Upgrading more than 10-15 divisions to a higher quality level will cause an increase in upkeep. Recruiting more than 10 divisions will cause an increase in upkeep, unless your economy is mobilized for war.
Mobilization: If a country mobilizes for war, it gains (after some preparation) the ability to conscript and recruit large numbers of soldiers. Conscription rules are below. Additionally, military upkeep costs drop significantly. The cost for mobilization is a temporary rise in taxation, which may or may not be offset by patriotic feelings preventing a drop in confidence. Demobilization after a war will require disbanding many wartime troops, and upkeep costs will return to normal.
Conscripts and Irregulars: Conscripts can be drafted at a Green quality level for 10 divisions per economic point, or as Rabble for free. They cannot improve beyond Normal, barring exceptional circumstances. Typically mass conscription requires a state of war. Limits for conscription are dependent on population (Size) and political/economic restrictions. Most nations can rely upon a minimum of 30 conscript divisions in time of dire need. Irregular militias of varying quality may sometimes spring up if your territory is attacked, AND if the population hasnt already been conscripted. They can be useful, but only in their home areas. Inquire for specific conscription limits.
Logistics: Logistics must be paid for. Military campaigns require logistical support and a solid line of supply. Standard overland offensives require at least 1 EP of logistical support, typically more. Overseas campaigns and major assaults may cost more. Inquire for details.
Colonial Military: Colonial militia, garrison troops and native allies will be listed in the Colonies section. However, even if fleets are assigned to colonial ports, they will remain listed (along with their home port) in the main Navy section.
Technology:
This area summarizes your domestic technology, noting both advanced areas and those falling behind. It quickly summarizes a range of areas where you can spend money, to give your nation a special advantage or catch up to the rest of the pack. Benefits are intangible but significant (well-targeted) spending can result in income increases, special weapons, or positive military outcomes.
Colonies:
Colonial stats are divided into four portions: A colony ranking, size stat, confidence ranking, and a military overview. More information on your specific colonies can be obtained, though if you ask too many questions the mod will be somewhat annoyed with you.
Outpost Backwater Unimportant Minor Viable Productive Valuable Wealthy Crown Jewel
Invest in your colonies, and they shall invest in you! Colonies can be a major source (or drain) of Income.
Society:
Every nation has unique traits and values. Some of these are consistently expressed as a sort of cultural ethic. These can be both a blessing and a curse, and have myriad effects. Some are consistently on the positive side, like martial courage or commercial expertise. Other traits like pious or democratic have benefits and drawbacks, while some, like urban dissent or internal corruption are mostly negative. Basically a status report on the pulse of your nation, society can grant bonuses or maluses at unexpected times. Keep them in mind when making plans. Like all stats, these can change over time.
Other Spending:
Significant spending over time to a broad goal like better ships may give you a result or maybe not. You can also target specific goals such as building an espionage/intelligence network, creating fortifications, founding colonies, placating certain elements of your population, or anything you can imagine a government spending money on in the real world.
Economy points can be loaned/traded/given between nations, or used to undermine other nations' stability by provoking incidents. Investing in your own stability rating and/or a counter-intelligence network can help prevent this.
Ninja Dude
Sorry, I wasn't listening...
Yeah, I'd say this is a pretty rockin' ruleset.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Looks good.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Here's a stat example.
Republic of Italy/Rome
President Vittore Castiglioni/
Size: Medium
Government: Presidential Republic (-1)
Bureaucracy: Wasteful
Income (Agriculture/Industry/Trade): (2/1/2) (-3 upkeep) = 2 ep/turn
Taxation: Light
Quality of Life: Poor
Confidence: Discontent
Army: 10 divisions [Tolerable], 10 divisions [Green]
Navy: [5 squadrons (Tolerable) Genoa], [3 squadrons (Tolerable) Nuova Vicenza]
Military Description: The navy is small and ineffectual, while the army has poor armaments and is ill-supplied. Italian forces are not beyond hope, but need major reforms.
Technology: Early Industrial. German efforts to modernize Italy were cut short after revolution. Balkanized and semi-modern, steadily falling behind.
Colonies: Nuova Vicenza* [Minor/Small/Tolerating/3 divisions (Tolerable)] *Africa
Sapienza* [Insignificant/Tiny/Respecting/1 division (Tolerable)] *Persian Gulf
Society: Growing urban radicalism, conservative countryside, Roman Catholic, anti-German sentiment, anti-Sicilian sentiment, poverty, corruption, political disunity, urban crime, strong nationalism.
Nation Description:
President Vittore Castiglioni/
Size: Medium
Government: Presidential Republic (-1)
Bureaucracy: Wasteful
Income (Agriculture/Industry/Trade): (2/1/2) (-3 upkeep) = 2 ep/turn
Taxation: Light
Quality of Life: Poor
Confidence: Discontent
Army: 10 divisions [Tolerable], 10 divisions [Green]
Navy: [5 squadrons (Tolerable) Genoa], [3 squadrons (Tolerable) Nuova Vicenza]
Military Description: The navy is small and ineffectual, while the army has poor armaments and is ill-supplied. Italian forces are not beyond hope, but need major reforms.
Technology: Early Industrial. German efforts to modernize Italy were cut short after revolution. Balkanized and semi-modern, steadily falling behind.
Colonies: Nuova Vicenza* [Minor/Small/Tolerating/3 divisions (Tolerable)] *Africa
Sapienza* [Insignificant/Tiny/Respecting/1 division (Tolerable)] *Persian Gulf
Society: Growing urban radicalism, conservative countryside, Roman Catholic, anti-German sentiment, anti-Sicilian sentiment, poverty, corruption, political disunity, urban crime, strong nationalism.
Nation Description:
Spoiler :
