Project SYNTHESIS

[Linkman226]

Will check it out.

 

[McWinniage]

Cool, thanks.

 

[Linkman226]

This thread is being moved to the Dawn of Civilization subforum soon. Just giving you guys a heads up.

In other news, I'm contemplating moving the Persian spawn to 730 and making them the Median Empire as their first dynamic name. Their current spawn date of 850 appears to be arbitrarily picked, as I cannot find any empire of that region that was founded around that time.

 

[The_J]

This thread is being moved to the Dawn of Civilization subforum soon.

Moderator Action: Thread moved.

 

[Linkman226]

Moderator Action: Thread moved.

Thanks!

 

[civ_king]

Some civs spawn a little early

 

[Linkman226]

I know. For Persia it isn't necessary, IMO.

In addition I also added George I as a rebirth leader for Greece and a post-1600 leader for not-reborn Greece.

 

[Linkman226]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to simulate an Alexandrian empire? I say simulate because I gave up on getting Greece to actually do the real thing because the real life time line was so quick as to not be worthy of even being included in game. Ratehr, I somehow want to simulate the cultural changes wrought by Alexander. I was thinking Hellenism a la RFCC but I don't want a cluttered feeling to the religions. At the same time, Hellenism would help stop the tendency of random religions to take root in Europe in 3000 BC starts.

I'm asking because I was revising the names of Persia and I was wondering if they should have a Seleucid dynamic name, but I realized that makes little sense without their Hellenization.

 

[J. pride]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to simulate an Alexandrian empire? I say simulate because I gave up on getting Greece to actually do the real thing because the real life time line was so quick as to not be worthy of even being included in game. Ratehr, I somehow want to simulate the cultural changes wrought by Alexander. I was thinking Hellenism a la RFCC but I don't want a cluttered feeling to the religions. At the same time, Hellenism would help stop the tendency of random religions to take root in Europe in 3000 BC starts.

I'm asking because I was revising the names of Persia and I was wondering if they should have a Seleucid dynamic name, but I realized that makes little sense without their Hellenization.

I am in favor of an actual Macedonian Empire; heres what i propose happen.

-You revise the early Persian and make them more aggresive to conquer the Middle East.

-If the the Persian control Anatolia in 350-250 BC than on a semi random date an large army (AI) Greek appears in Western Anatolia with Alexander as the great general.

-The army is scripted like the Mongols or the Seljuks to declare war on the Persia and eastwards. This combined with a stability penalty should collapse the Persians and let the Greeks conquer Persia.

-Due to stability penalty Greece will soon collapse and in its place Hellenized Selucids and Egyptian kingdoms form. Actual Greece becomes independent thus becoming an easy kill for the Romans thus solving future problems such as the Byzantine spawn.

This is just a general sketch; you can change it and make it less deterministic by having probabilities and what not. But on the whole introducing the Alexandrian empire kills a lot of birds with one stone:

-Kills the a historical Babylonian if still present.
-Represents Greek and Hellenistic presence in the Middle East.
-Instead of having a lot of strong kingdoms the Mediterranean is represented by two weak powers (selucids and Egypt) and an independent Greece; thus making Roman Expansion a lot more probable and make the game alot more historical.
-By Greece conquering Tyre, the Phoenicians are exiled to Carthage thus representing both Phoenicia and Carthage and making the game lot more fun.

 

[BenZL43]

Yeah..
Persia spawns better at 730..

And how about making Europe a terrible place in Medieval era?
They weren't that united and strong during those time...
There should be lots of castle and knight everywhere..
Cities are fighting against cities aggressively to unite Europe under their hand..

And suddenly the news Columbus bring enlighten them and in a hurry, become united, and sent a lot of caravan to conquer the new land, to colonize their land and seek a new civilization~

 

[BenZL43]

Re: Alexander

I like JPride's idea

Or alternatively,
We could use the same slot of Seljuk Empire to Macedonian Empire..
So they're scripted to spawn at blablabla.. War with blablabla.. and after a certain size, they collapse..
And they spawn again at certain date as Seljuk~

Also that Greece is better as Independent, yeah.
Perhaps..
Sparta = Barbarian
Athens = Independent
Philippopolis = Where Macedonia starts at..

But if it's going like that..
I wonder who's going to built Artemis, Zeus etc?
>,<

 

[great.taurus]

I am in favor of an actual Macedonian Empire; heres what i propose happen.

-You revise the early Persian and make them more aggresive to conquer the Middle East.

-If the the Persian control Anatolia in 350-250 BC than on a semi random date an large army (AI) Greek appears in Western Anatolia with Alexander as the great general.

-The army is scripted like the Mongols or the Seljuks to declare war on the Persia and eastwards. This combined with a stability penalty should collapse the Persians and let the Greeks conquer Persia.

-Due to stability penalty Greece will soon collapse and in its place Hellenized Selucids and Egyptian kingdoms form. Actual Greece becomes independent thus becoming an easy kill for the Romans thus solving future problems such as the Byzantine spawn.

This is just a general sketch; you can change it and make it less deterministic by having probabilities and what not. But on the whole introducing the Alexandrian empire kills a lot of birds with one stone:

-Kills the a historical Babylonian if still present.
-Represents Greek and Hellenistic presence in the Middle East.
-Instead of having a lot of strong kingdoms the Mediterranean is represented by two weak powers (selucids and Egypt) and an independent Greece; thus making Roman Expansion a lot more probable and make the game alot more historical.
-By Greece conquering Tyre, the Phoenicians are exiled to Carthage thus representing both Phoenicia and Carthage and making the game lot more fun.

Oh I like this.

If the AI player of the Macedonian army is a Greek Vassal, can they be made to gift the Greeks the cities they conquer? That might be useful for getting Greece to collapse.

 

[BenZL43]

I think it's better to have no Greeks at all..
They are mostly city states and never really united to be a powerful country except in the period of Macedonian...
Macedonian is Greek people and part of Greek Civilization, though

An idea for the Zeus Artemis wonder etc,
Code it so IF Athenai is not razed and ONLY IF no other civilization has built the wonders, Spawn it on Athenai..

In that way, IMO, when the city is captured by like Rome or Barbarian, they'll reconsider the value before razed it, and in that way, Athenai will be a legendary city..

 

[J. pride]

Whoo, guys I never said anything about separate Macedonian empire. For the purpose of our game, Macedonia as a continuation of Greece is totally fine. All there needs to be is leaderhead change and spawn of an army in Anatolia if certain conditions/ probabilities are met.

Also Greece should not be taken out, if that was the case i could take out many other civilization on that basis also. The fact is that Greece is extremely important to gameplay and taking it out will not help in any way at all!

 

[BenZL43]

So,
how about if I propose this..

A Greek Civilization still exist

A Macedonian minor, start at Philippoupolis, spawn if either :
-Persia control Anatolia in X AD
-Persia had killed / captured at least 1 Greek units

The Macedonian army is lead by Alexander the Great as a Great General
The Macedonian spread Greek culture
The Macedonian gone by Y AD and respawn as Seljuk (or Poland if you wish )

Because,
IMO, making Macedonian minor is better than integrate them into Greece even though both represent Greek cultures, they are entirely different..
One spread via culture, another one spread via conquest and revenge..

 

[ozqar]

I'd say that spawning an army for the Greeks and changing the LH to Alexander would do the job. A separate civ, as said, is not necessary. The fact that this would happen only in some games (given whatever conditions and probabilities, as suggested) would be great. Alternatively, you could always give them the army, but with different number of units each game, so that results change somewhat. However, Alexander built his empire quite quickly, I'm not sure if that, in game terms, is actually more than a turn or two.
Getting the empire to high unstability and making it collapse afterwards is also a great idea, but if you do that, will the Ptolemaics, Seleucids, etc, spawn? (as a respawn of Egypt and Persia). And could Greece itself, the core area, not become independent?

 

[LuKo]

Or you can just use my idea (and implement it better thanks to superior modding skills)- give them an army and an unit lead by Alexander. When Alexander dies you lose spawned army and collapse. Additionally, if Alexander is not fighting for certain time you just lose the army (to prevent an exploit). I would love to see somewhere (probably to steal and give the credit ) Greece changing into Macedonia, into Byzantium (I don't really like additional-slot-for-Byz idea), into Greece.

 

[Linkman226]

Great ideas all but I like the idea of not having a separate Macedon civ best. It's superfluous.

LuKo- I once planned on doing that but undoing Byzantium seems like a headache I'd rather not incur right now. Maybe at a later date.

As for your first idea, possibly, but only after the Lead from behind modcomp is incorporated. There would be too many suicide charges by the Greek AI of the Alexander unit otherwise.

 

[OldGuard]

Is the Temple of Solomon working for anyone? My holy shrines are still capped off at 20 gold regardless if Liberalism is discovered or not.

 

[LuKo]

There would be too many suicide charges by the Greek AI of the Alexander unit otherwise.

As it was in real?

BTW: feel free to use my modmod as an idea base or anything because I have no objections to copy your ideas that I like (if only I'm able to merge them and I've got enough time).