Prove God Exists - Act Three

[Birdjaguar]

What if the universe has no beginning but a definite end?

For the moment, and with great gnashing of teeth, I begrudgingly concede that this is a logical third choice. My problems are that it seems to be of little likelihood of actually happening and I want to discard it or find a way to make it simply a variation of choice 2.

I characterized it like so:
Choice 3 = universe (with time) --> event --> no universe
But I think that is wrong. How about:
Choice 3 = universe (no time) --> event --> no universe

Since prior to our event, there would be no time (no events to begin time)and after the event no universe.

 

[Perfection]

universe (no time) --> event --> no universe, none of these have time, so how can you put them in a timeline?

 

[shadowdude]

universe (no time) --> event --> no universe, none of these have time, so how can you put them in a timeline?

Quite simple, you don't!

 

[Birdjaguar]

The event marks a change. It is a transition point. Time in this scenario would last only as long as the event. If such an event did not take any time, then I would suggest that it did not happen and there was no change. Then the difference between the universe and no universe is nil and hence they are the same. Back to choice 1.

 

[Perfection]

But my counterclaim of a third choice is still valid, if there is time

 

[Birdjaguar]

Which posts are you referring to in your post 945?

 

[Perfection]

It doesn't really matter, we're way of topic

 

[Birdjaguar]

Not really, time and the nature of the universe is what the god question is all about. Christianity has the universe begin with an event that starts a universe with time (creation), that has another event that ends the universe (second coming). I'm not sure what goes on before and after (heaven & hell?).

But we can let this thread lapse into oblivion if you like.

 

[Perfection]

Right, but you're just speculating on how to sort possiblities into lame catagories. Also, we're talking about god, not neccesarily a chrsitian god, there is no need for a beginning or end with a non-christian god.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Well this forum is overwhelmingly Christian oriented. posts that attempt to bring in non christian ideas are usually ignored. And the entertainment value of christianity bashing is much higher than hinduism or buddhism. The zoroastrian thread is a refreshing change.

Simplifying into "lame categories" may be boring and not very controversial, but it does keep extraneous "stuff" from muddying the waters and can provide for simplistic comparisons. Blah blah blah...

 

[Birdjaguar]

Are we going for 1000?

 

[FearlessLeader2]

There have been numerous expiraments on abiogenesis, none have competly simulated it, but many have succeeded in producing the organic molecules we see in life. There is still a ton of work needed to resolve the steps in abiogenesis.

But there's no doubt whatsoever that it WILL be resolved, right? It just doesn't compute that something might be beyond our ken, does it? All you need is a sharper knife to slice the current Gordian knot with, or a bigger crowbar to pry the next door open, right?

Still, it's encouraging to see that you haven't let go of the immortality you were born to expect, the immortality that Adam denied us all. Your confident self-assurance that any nut can be cracked stems from that immortality that all mankind sees as its due, and strives to regain. There's only one path back to that state however, and science will not put you on it, only faith will. But I have hope, for you and for me.

 

[Blasphemous]

Been away for three weeks...
Anyone up to giving me a little recap? *Doggy eyes*

 

[carlosMM]

But there's no doubt whatsoever that it WILL be resolved, right? It just doesn't compute that something might be beyond our ken, does it? All you need is a sharper knife to slice the current Gordian knot with, or a bigger crowbar to pry the next door open, right?

huamn history if replete with examples of stuff being mysterious - then being cleared up later on!
also, it is replete with claims 'it was done by (a) god' which later were easily sunk.

So, by all experience - yes, we will crakc that nut!

Still, it's encouraging to see that you haven't let go of the immortality you were born to expect, the immortality that Adam denied us all. Your confident self-assurance that any nut can be cracked stems from that immortality that all mankind sees as its due, and strives to regain. There's only one path back to that state however, and science will not put you on it, only faith will. But I have hope, for you and for me.

ahem, anything but religious claims, biased and totally unfounded?

'your confidenct self assurance.....stems from that immortality' - how do you know where his confidence stems from?

mine stems from experience!

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Deny it if you have to, carlosmm, but immortality is in our hearts, and it's there because we weren't meant to grow old and die.

 

[Plotinus]

Deny it if you have to, carlosmm, but immortality is in our hearts, and it's there because we weren't meant to grow old and die.

I'd like to be able to fly like Superman, and also bend huge steel girders with minimal effort. Does that mean that God intended me to be able to?

 

[FearlessLeader2]

How many cave drawings and tombs with images of the Last Son of Krypton have archaeologists explored? How many cultural stigmas and superstitions about flying and bending steel girders are there in human history?

Apples and oranges.

 

[King Alexander]

Deny it if you have to, carlosmm, but immortality is in our hearts, and it's there because we weren't meant to grow old and die.

That's exactly what science tries to do: make the humans live longer and longer until we're immortals.
The paradox is, when something new has been discovered in genetics with the possibility to make the humans live longer, religions protest against it and say it's something evil and God would made us immortals but it's against our nature, etc...

How many cave drawings and tombs with images of the Last Son of Krypton have archaeologists explored? How many cultural stigmas and superstitions about flying and bending steel girders are there in human history?

Apples and oranges.

I don't know for Hollywood stories, but Icaros and Dedalos succeded in flying(although, we had a fatal fall!), according to Greek mythology.

I'd like to be able to fly like Superman, and also bend huge steel girders with minimal effort. Does that mean that God intended me to be able to?

Yes, that means exactly that God intended to make you able to do everything, but lacked the knowledge. The problem is that God didn't new anything about genetics back then.

 

[MSTK]

Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo.

Not in mathematics: a ray.