Put him in with Bubba! LOL

El_Machinae

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It's a common idea that a person being thrown into prison is likely to be victimised by another prisoner: whether it's remand, a local pen, or a federal institution.

Do you think such a state is actually a good thing. Is the Justice System benefited by prisoners abusing each other? Is it actually a bad thing, and makes our society worse?

I realise that the situation is joked about, but I wonder at its approval rate.
 
I have no particular problem with e.g. child rapists getting pwned in prison.

I also dunno anything abotu criminal psychology though, so my opinion doesn't really mean much.
 
I think it's a disgrace to give convicted criminals (Bubba) a carte blanche to continue criminal activities during their prisontime. You are basically giving him the message: "You've done a crime and you are caught and now you can commit crimes all you like till you are released".

:nono:
 
Heh heh...I thought this thread might actually be about Conrad Black. Poor bugger found out yesterday that since he's not a US citizen, he doesn't have the right to serve his time in a minimum security prison or be eligible for early parole. His lordship might be meeting Bubba soon enough...
 
I don't see it as a problem. The same things happen out in the real world too. Why pay more consideration to convicts than we do to ordinary citizens?
 
It's a common idea that a person being thrown into prison is likely to be victimised by another prisoner: whether it's remand, a local pen, or a federal institution.

Do you think such a state is actually a good thing. Is the Justice System benefited by prisoners abusing each other? Is it actually a bad thing, and makes our society worse?

I realise that the situation is joked about, but I wonder at its approval rate.
It's a bad thing. It makes our society worse, since the prisoner leaves prison and continues to commit crimes. US prisons are monster factories.
 
I don't see it as a problem. The same things happen out in the real world too. Why pay more consideration to convicts than we do to ordinary citizens?

Well, for two reasons:

(1) As a detainee, you don't have the option of getting away from potentially ugly situations.

(2) The OP's thesis seems to imply (rightly or wrongly) that things crimes in prison are generally ignored to foster some kind of 'prison justice', wheras in the real world, those people would be punished...
 
It's a common idea that a person being thrown into prison is likely to be victimised by another prisoner: whether it's remand, a local pen, or a federal institution.

Do you think such a state is actually a good thing.
Absolutely not.
Is the Justice System benefited by prisoners abusing each other?
No.
Is it actually a bad thing, and makes our society worse?
Yes.

Problems with "Put him in with Bubba" include:
*It damages the rule of law by making possible additional punishment dependent on other prisoners rather than sentencing.
*It damages the rule of law some more by making that punishment come in forms that the judicial system not only doesn't sanction, but often imposes penalties for if committed elsewhere.
*It takes an absolute crap, so to speak, on the rule of law by creating a largely strength-dependent hierarchy among prisoners, when the legal system is allegedly supposed to make people equal before the law.

Furthermore, and more indirectly, by threatening additional punishment for a crime, possibly worse than the original sentence handed down by the judge or whoever, it creates an unbalanced incentive system for a minor criminal to commit a larger crime to cover up his smaller crime, if the decrease in the risk of discovery compensates for the increased jail time or similar.

I don't see it as a problem. The same things happen out in the real world too. Why pay more consideration to convicts than we do to ordinary citizens?
Are you suggesting that no consideration is paid to preventing victimisation, molesting, etc. of ordinary citiziens?
We should pay X amount of consideration to convicts for the same reason that we don't simply hand down the death penalty for all crimes: punishment is intended to be in some measure proportional to the crime. This means that we should not give the option to victimising prisoners to deal an arbitrary amount of additional punishment to other prisoners.
 
Well, for two reasons:

(1) As a detainee, you don't have the option of getting away from potentially ugly situations.

(2) The OP's thesis seems to imply (rightly or wrongly) that things crimes in prison are generally ignored to foster some kind of 'prison justice', wheras in the real world, those people would be punished...

Good points. I don't think it should go unpunished, but these things are bound to happen. What I meant was that its natural behaviour (for some people). I think its more important to worry about victimization in schools, or workplaces.
 
Monster factories. Sad but true.

However, there's no "carte blanc". It isn't easy to maintain control of those places without resorting to "inhumane" methods. People get convicted of crimes in prison.

I am disgusted by child predators as much as the next guy, but wishing rape on someone is sick. If you can justify rape, then so can someone else and their reasons might not be the same as yours - I would reconsider such a position.
 
I think people like to joke about it because it is a completely socially acceptable revenge fantasy. An evil person gets what they deserve, in a way that doesn't make good people do anything bad!

Seriosuly, I think it is horrible, although the ability to stop it is somewhat limited, I think. Still, more can and should be done.
 
I think it's a disgrace to give convicted criminals (Bubba) a carte blanche to continue criminal activities during their prisontime. You are basically giving him the message: "You've done a crime and you are caught and now you can commit crimes all you like till you are released".

:nono:

QFT. I agree. :)
 
Juries and judges usually understand that when somebody gets thrown in prison, they get raped by other people in the prison, especially if they are there for crimes against children. If they take this into account when determining sentences, then the argument against Bubba becomes weaker.
 
It's a common idea that a person being thrown into prison is likely to be victimised by another prisoner: whether it's remand, a local pen, or a federal institution.

Do you think such a state is actually a good thing. Is the Justice System benefited by prisoners abusing each other? Is it actually a bad thing, and makes our society worse?

I realise that the situation is joked about, but I wonder at its approval rate.
Nope. Rape and assault in prison is a crime, and is in no way a positive thing. It should be dealt with harshly - prison is a punishment by a civilized society on its uncivilized members, it is not an anarchy and should be tightly controlled.

Now, I'm not sure how to stop it, though, short of putting collars on all the inmates that broadcast their exact location, which would allow us to track them, and knock exactly who is with who where and when. (Meaning that if prisoner 122546 gets beaten up in the laundry room at 12:55, then we'll know exactly who was there) Of course, that sounds like a good idea to me, but I can imagine the outcry that would result.

"You're treating them like animals!"
"Yeah, and locking them in cages isn't at all in the same venue. Or letting them get raped or beaten up is SO much worse than having to wear a tracking device."

:rolleyes:
 
A significant number of people in prison
are gross incompetents who had moral lapses.

They were not necessarily dangerous when
they were convicted and sentenced.

But by allowing other prisoners to brutalise them,
they can become more dangerous on release.
 
The job of the prison system is to incarcerate prisoners. Unless it got decided that this "incarceration" should legally include rape, assault, abuse or other things that are unrelated to simply locking them up, anything other than that act is an extralegal punishment and in the US, it's unconstitutional as well.

Frankly, there's an underlying problem in American society regarding prisons and it's exactly this "prisons = rape" assumption. It's become normalised that when people go to prison they go into an extremely unsafe environment and get abused, and it's all serving to dehumanise prisoners in the consciousness of society at large, and promote the idea that people lose all rights and humanity when they're incarcerated. This, naturally, paralyses political will do to anything about it, especially when there's such a huge class divide over it all.

I should also mention, though, that this is mostly a problem in state and federal facilties as far as I understand, not the local ones.
 
They should have thought about that before committing a crime.
 
There are probably plenty of people who come out of prison worse than they go in because of this kinda thing...not a good idea to have it going on.
 
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