Question on heaven...

[Perfection]

The reward for following Jesus does not come on earth always. It is a sacrifice one makes to follow him.

Well, I didn't get this faith and harmony stuff that everyone yaks about. I got depression and fruitless searcing. The only way I became happy was through giving up on faith.

 

[King Flevance]

Bah. That faith and harmony is sort of bologna IMO. Sure there is a reassurance in it to an extent. But life has became harder for me since I started following this path. It only seems to get harder the more effort I put in to it.

The depression I am not sure. (please no one take offense to this next statement ) Were you catholic? I only ask because I know alot of catholics that feel that life should be mourned through guilt of sin and jesus's death than celebrated. Like life is punishment. That is probably a harsh analysis but that what it feels like when I talk to them about faith. (The ones I know - but not all) Even going to catholic church is sort of depressing to me.

Fruitless searching. Yeah, I get alot of that. I still haven't recieved a good solid answers on dinosaurs. That topic fascinates me.

 

[Birdjaguar]

That the law of probabilities ensures that people will experience unexplained coincidences. This does not require the supernatural.

The law of probablilities only ensures that people will experience the unexplained. Adding the word "coincidences" is just spin. Can you show any evidence that such unxplained events are actually coincidental?

If I were to think about my daughter one afternoon and then if she were to call within a minute of my thoughts, any connection between those two events is not readily evident and any such link could be called "unexplained". If the two events are really unrelated, and only accidentally linked then it might be a coincidence. But just because we cannot see a connection does not mean there isn't one. "Coincidence" is just a way that reason deals with experiences that are "unresasonable" and therefore cannot be accepted.

coincidence.

Main Entry: co·in·ci·dence

Function: noun
1 : the act or condition of coinciding : CORRESPONDENCE
2 : the occurrence of events that happen at the same time by accident but seem to have some connection;

 

[Perfection]

Bah. That faith and harmony is sort of bologna IMO. Sure there is a reassurance in it to an extent. But life has became harder for me since I started following this path. It only seems to get harder the more effort I put in to it.

Why do it then?

The depression I am not sure. (please no one take offense to this next statement ) Were you catholic? I only ask because I know alot of catholics that feel that life should be mourned through guilt of sin and jesus's death than celebrated. Like life is punishment. That is probably a harsh analysis but that what it feels like when I talk to them about faith. (The ones I know - but not all) Even going to catholic church is sort of depressing to me.

Nope, Lutheran

Fruitless searching. Yeah, I get alot of that. I still haven't recieved a good solid answers on dinosaurs. That topic fascinates me.

Dinosuars have relevance here? How so?

 

[King Flevance]

Why do it then?

Because I am certain there is life after death. And I believe it is the path of the righteous. I want to be one of the righteous. Along with if GOd created me, I appreciate Him allowing me to exist so that I can view all of the things I have seen in my life, both good and bad. He has given me an oppurtunity to join His empire and I accept the proposition.

Nope, Lutheran

My mistake. I do not know much about Lutheran but if I am not mistaken they are a lively bunch.

Dinosuars have relevance here? How so?

That is the question I have been asking to alot of people high in faith. The answer is always different. Sometimes scewed and sometimes to cryptic to understand. I have gotten a few interesting ideas handed to me but they have no credit yet. I have to look into it further - as usual.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I am Buddhist

A buddhist! Then we are not too far apart in our thinking and believing.

 

[Perfection]

Because I am certain there is life after death. And I believe it is the path of the righteous. I want to be one of the righteous. Along with if GOd created me, I appreciate Him allowing me to exist so that I can view all of the things I have seen in my life, both good and bad. He has given me an oppurtunity to join His empire and I accept the proposition.

How do you know this?

My mistake. I do not know much about Lutheran but if I am not mistaken they are a lively bunch.

Well, the ones I know are

That is the question I have been asking to alot of people high in faith. The answer is always different. Sometimes scewed and sometimes to cryptic to understand. I have gotten a few interesting ideas handed to me but they have no credit yet. I have to look into it further - as usual.

What's the question?

 

[Birdjaguar]

That is the question I have been asking to alot of people high in faith. The answer is always different. Sometimes scewed and sometimes to cryptic to understand. I have gotten a few interesting ideas handed to me but they have no credit yet. I have to look into it further - as usual.

Do you question their age or whether or not they actually existed?

 

[King Flevance]

How do you know this?

Sigh... In a nutshell I have seen 2 ghosts, I have had prayers to the Lord answered within a couple minutes of the prayer, one answered through not only carrying out the request but by an appearance of Jesus, and a 3 day event where ... this one is hard to explain. For 3 days everyone I talked to was either God or Satan and I took part in a sort of philosophical debate for my soul. ....Let the jokes begin.

Like I said my proof is mine alone. Me saying this does not proove anything to anyone of you. But I have received my proof. I know for sure whether this above paragraph is true or not. A couple things are on the extreme side but I never said my proof was proof for anyone else. I used to talk about these things alot because it fascinated me as well. But I quickly learned someone that has credit to his word is instantly a foolish liar in the world as soon as you say something like this.

What's the question?

If God's plan was for humans to inhabit the Earth. Then taken that he can see all of time at once. Why did he make the dinosaurs and so many different kinds if he just wanted to kill them off? Why bother?

@Birdjaguar: I question why they were even put here. Age is a touchy subject. It depends on why they were put here. Then I want to know when.

 

[Perfection]

Sigh... In a nutshell I have seen 2 ghosts, I have had prayers to the Lord answered within a couple minutes of the prayer, one answered through not only carrying out the request but by an appearance of Jesus, and a 3 day event where ... this one is hard to explain. For 3 days everyone I talked to was either God or Satan and I took part in a sort of philosophical debate for my soul. ....Let the jokes begin.

I must say that I find this most bizzare, how do you know that this wasn't an odd mental glitch?

If God's plan was for humans to inhabit the Earth. Then taken that he can see all of time at once. Why did he make the dinosaurs and so many different kinds if he just wanted to kill them off? Why bother?

I suppose that's a decent question to ask.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Sigh... In a nutshell I have seen 2 ghosts, I have had prayers to the Lord answered within a couple minutes of the prayer, one answered through not only carrying out the request but by an appearance of Jesus, and a 3 day event where ... this one is hard to explain. For 3 days everyone I talked to was either God or Satan and I took part in a sort of philosophical debate for my soul. ....Let the jokes begin.

Like I said my proof is mine alone. Me saying this does not proove anything to anyone of you. But I have received my proof. I know for sure whether this above paragraph is true or not. A couple things are on the extreme side but I never said my proof was proof for anyone else. I used to talk about these things alot because it fascinated me as well. But I quickly learned someone that has credit to his word is instantly a foolish liar in the world as soon as you say something like this.

Such things are always very difficult to put into words, especially when not face to face with the listening party.

If God's plan was for humans to inhabit the Earth. Then taken that he can see all of time at once. Why did he make the dinosaurs and so many different kinds if he just wanted to kill them off? Why bother?

@Birdjaguar: I question why they were even put here. Age is a touchy subject. It depends on why they were put here. Then I want to know when.

Geologic time and can be difficult to mix with Christiantiy. Dinosaurs are an anomoly with respect to the bible. The only way to easily fit them in is to deny any literal interpretation of the bible or just say things like "god works in mysterios ways." That is not always a satisfying answer.

 

[King Flevance]

I must say that I find this most bizzare, how do you know that this wasn't an odd mental glitch?

Probably, mixed between the circumstances and the fact that These all happened when I was between ages 8-22. I played enough sports and stuff that I was evaluated commonly. As far as medicine is concerned I am in good health, save the smoking. Then to add that usually there was a good space of time between them alot. A glitch that happens every few years doesnt seem like a condition.

The prayer that Jesus revealed himself in I will admit I was drunk. I was just chilling in the bed my girlfriend mostly and I was about to throw up. I forget why it was so important but I needed to be sober and didn't have time to throw up and be all... how you are when your throwing up.. a mix between drunk and dry-heavey. So I prayed for something I thought would not be answered. "God, can you sober me up?" basically. I do remember saying in prayer that promising to stop drinking would be a lie. I don't remember if I simply asked it as a mercy act or if I did promise to do something in return. Either way I expected the answer to be "no"
Anyway, My girlfriend had her head on my chest and as soon as I said "Amen" she said "Damn, you heart is racing." I began to break into a heavy sweat and could feel my heart pounding like crazy. Hard and fast. My vision was a little foggy in the time and I couldn't really talk because I sort of had to concentrate. I was staring at the wood panelling on her wall and the face of Jesus appeared in blue on it, not like paint or anything but more like when you look at the sun for too long it leaves colors when you look away. His face took up the whole wall. I was sober within 2 minutes. I am sure I still had alcohol in my blood and all that but I was not inebriated(sp?) anymore.

EDIT: After skimming this I just wanted to point out I didn't have a seizure. My body was entirely relaxed the whole time. Increase in heartbeat, possibly blood pressure, and increased sweating occured. My breathing remained stable IIRC as well.

Hoorah for a crazy story. Mostly though they all have had relevance to my faith. The ghosts I still do not know the meaning of. The most I can figure is for some reason God decided to show me that the spiritual world existed at an early age. But that is all I can figure. Another thing I found odd is that my name's meaning is "God remembered". Still have no idea what that means either.

 

[Perfection]

Well, I just don't see how one can abandon logical processes and give into these clearly bizzare emotional states.

 

[King Flevance]

What logical processes are being abandoned?

@Birdjaguar: I agree on both of those points. At this point I almost prefer to be discussing this stuff online with a bit of anonymity. Without it, I wouldn't have even brought it up. If I know you in my personal life all you get is "My proof is my proof" because it never changes their beliefs anyways, as it shouldn't. Also because I can't stand being stared at like an idiot.

 

[Perfection]

What logical processes are being abandoned?

The part that says, "well hey, maybe I was mistaken, then".

 

[Sidhe]

I wonder if people who see ghosts are more likely to be religous, I wonder if there is a correlation, just a though, maybe their part of the same mental glitch.. errr I mean errr, word someone, abberation, errr....psychosis, no that's not it, psychology, that'll do Where does spirtuality come from is it biologogical or programmed and can this lead to other events becoming more likely?

 

[King Flevance]

Ah, yeah. I have had that alot. Namely in the years 17 and under. But, for me, it is hard to accept that the law of probabilty holds its values to this over an outside force. The 3 days situation was the most intense thing I have ever experienced. More intense than being 4-6 feet from a ghost TBH. I was 22 when that 3 day experience happened. This wasn't too long ago. There was no mistaking the content behind it for me. There was, simply put, alot more to it than I could probably put in to words. But as I said this is simply my proof. I honestly, can't hand it over as proof to anyone and I wouldn't expect someone to just take it when their soul is the one in question on the line. Honestly, it feels somewhat exciting to experience such rare things like what I have. But it gives no merit in this world except for to me.

@Sidhe Someone a while back posted some study that religion or the need for a God is hardwired into our brain to add on to this. I think that is because God made us. It might be like a battery or something. But it isn't shocking at all to find out we are programmed to worship. ;p

 

[warpus]

The law of probablilities only ensures that people will experience the unexplained. Adding the word "coincidences" is just spin. Can you show any evidence that such unxplained events are actually coincidental?

When I say coincidence I mean exactly that - two events coinciding that might imply a connection between them - but when there isn't one.

For example, my friend was over at my place a couple weeks ago, and I made a random remark about my couch: "I wish I had two couches... Then there'd be one for you and one for me!"

An hour after that she left and not even 30 seconds later I heard a knocking on my window. I looked out and it was her.. so I opened my patio door to see what she wanted.

Guess what - she found a couch in PERFECT condition, not even a 20 second walk away from my apartment. So I went to take a look at it, we grabbed it and brought it back to my place, and it's been serving me ever since.

Now, if I were a religious man, I might attribute this coincidence to a higher being - be it Jesus, Vishnu, Zeus, or the FSM.

But having studied statistics and probability in University I realize that these things are bound to happen from time to time - and that's why attributing the supernatural to such coincidences is silly.

But just because we cannot see a connection does not mean there isn't one.

To assume a connection without any proof at all is counterproductive and unscientific.

 

[Gladi]

If a child dies, is he a child in heaven? Will he ever grow up to be an adult?
What about a fetus?
What about someone suffering from alzheimers? Will a person lose his mind while in heaven?


Can someone explain what would happen in these situations, and others. Thanks.

Bright day
Dunno. I don't have any handy Divine Handbook(TM). But I think that Heaven is not a solitary existance but communal existance. In Heaven we will live in God, our love will allow us to transcend boundaries of our solitarity. (Yeah I know it sounds like a plot from bad sci-fi, but alas I cannot take legal action aganist those sci-fi authors )

Fetus, I don't know, but if there is a soul I think it would be given chance to experience the world all the same so would be born elsewhere. (Is soul pre-existing or does it sponanously arise?)

 

[warpus]

The prayer that Jesus revealed himself in I will admit I was drunk. I was just chilling in the bed my girlfriend mostly and I was about to throw up. I forget why it was so important but I needed to be sober and didn't have time to throw up and be all... how you are when your throwing up.. a mix between drunk and dry-heavey. So I prayed for something I thought would not be answered. "God, can you sober me up?" basically. I do remember saying in prayer that promising to stop drinking would be a lie. I don't remember if I simply asked it as a mercy act or if I did promise to do something in return. Either way I expected the answer to be "no"
Anyway, My girlfriend had her head on my chest and as soon as I said "Amen" she said "Damn, you heart is racing." I began to break into a heavy sweat and could feel my heart pounding like crazy. Hard and fast. My vision was a little foggy in the time and I couldn't really talk because I sort of had to concentrate. I was staring at the wood panelling on her wall and the face of Jesus appeared in blue on it, not like paint or anything but more like when you look at the sun for too long it leaves colors when you look away. His face took up the whole wall. I was sober within 2 minutes. I am sure I still had alcohol in my blood and all that but I was not inebriated(sp?) anymore.

Isn't the human mind a complex and wonderful thing? It's capable of so many things we don't yet understand - including fooling you into seeing things that aren't there.