Question to Christians regarding Homosexuality.

.Shane.

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OK, first I'll state my questions. Then I'll post some ground rules and assumptions for the thread. If you can't follow those, please don't post.... not that I can do anything about it. :)

Questions:

Given that the bible has so many passages approving/advocating many behaviors that, over time, have been determined to be inhumane, barbaric, etc... AND that Jesus himself never even addressed the rightness/wrongness of it... how can you justify that its still a sin? Why is HS a sin, but all these other behaviors have been recognized as archaic? However, JC did talk about adultery and divorce and I don't see anywhere near the anger and venom directed toward divorced people and adulterers as I do gays. For instance many churches will not kick them out and they will even let them remarry in their church (I realize Catholicism does not, but they have annulment, which, well... that's another discussion).

Rules:

1. You have to assume the validity of the question. If you disagree w/ my statement about other behaviors that have since been discredited, that's fine. Just DO NOT POST here.
2. Ditto rule #1 regarding what Jesus said. I've read and studied the entirety of the New Testaments and there's no direct comment by Jesus anywhere on HS.
3. Stick to the Bible only. Sorry, no Quran, no Book of Mormon, Dianetics, Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, etc...
4. No hyperbole. Address points and do not make assumptions about the poster nor attack the individual.
5. Do not turn this into a bible quote-a-thon. A quote here or there, sure. But, I want to see you explain in your own words why you feel the way you do. Otherwise, we just end up trying to out google-quote each other. BORING.
6. Assume that most Christian denominations consider HS a sin. Hence another reason not to need tons of passage quoting.

I'm making these rules to help focus the discussion and to prevent people from bringing strawmen or other tangents into the discussion. If you don't like them, that's cool, just don't post here and feel free to create your own thread.
 
Posted this in the other thread prior to your making this thread. Here it is:

Shane, Jesus wasnt specific about a variety of sin, but that is hardly an endorsement of same. In fact, Jesus routinely told people to leave their sin behind and walk a godly walk. Take the example of the woman at the well, whom he told to "go and sin no more". While Jesus was considered a friend of the sinner, he in no way excused their lifestyle, but rather tried to influence them through his love to leave their sinful lifestyles. HS, is not anymore great an evil as any other sin that we all commit on a daily basis.

As for your points about adultery and/or divorce. I view both in equal terms with other types of sin. As for as anger and venom, perhaps it is simply because we dont have an adultery lobby or divorce lobby clamoring for equality and demanded that such behavior not be regarded as sin. Currently, there most certainly is a movement to view HS as acceptable behavior and not a sin, regardless of what the bible says in regards to the behavior. This is not the case where adultery or divorce is concerned.
 
See recent post
 
You're not addressing my central question. Why have most faiths discredited things that used to be sinful, but not HS?

I shouldn't have brought up the modern context of divorce and such, I apologize, because I don't want this to turn into another political thread about the legality of HS marriage.

So, if we can all try and shunt that aside, excellent. :) If not, I understand, as I did put it in the OP.
 
civgeneral, so your reply is just to quote Dogma?

I'm looking for answers to specific spiritual inquiry. If all you can do is quote dogma, please don't bother. Now, if you care to put it into your own words, I think that's great.

And, no, I don't need tons of passages, those are easy to find and I'm already familiar w/ most of them. I don't need you to prove that Christianity considers HS a sin. That's given. Let me add it to my rules.
 
.Shane. said:
You're not addressing my central question. Why have most faiths discredited things that used to be sinful, but not HS?

"Why have most faiths discredited things that used to be sinful, but not HS".

This sentence does not make sense to me. It would indicate an acceptance of HS while continuing to discredit other sinful items. I think you mean the reverse dont you?
 
Sorry, yeah, I mean that, for instance, in the Old Testament (OT) there are all kinds of ghastly practices described, like for what things you can sell your daughter or beat your wife, etc.... (please don't make me find the passages, let's all be honest and admit what we know is there).

So, why are those things followed by the religious, but we stick to the similar proscriptions regarding HS?

Does that make more sense?

edit: ok, 1 example just to help prove my point;

Deuteronomy 22:1314, 20-21 "If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid....if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."

So, if your wife is not a virgin when you married her, can we still stone here to death? PLEASE SAY YES!

I can give plenty more.
 
Apologies sent to .Shane.
 
Homosexuality was widely known in Jesus' Palestine as a sin. The Old Testament listed it as a offense to God. Though Jesus may not have specificly addressed homosexuality as a sin, he did tell people to refrain from sexual immorality. The audience he was talking to knew homosexuality was included under that generic term. The laws of sexual immorality of the Old Testament are still valid today, as Jesus and Paul's later Epistles say (Paul's Epistles do mention homosexuality).

Homosexuality is a sin, as defined in the Bible.
 
Delete me, irrelevent
 
CivGeneral said:
Well, SOOOORYYY if I quote Dogma :rolleyes:. I cannot put it into my own words ya know. I will remove them at once and not bother with this thread :mad: :rolleyes:.

Look, I'm not debating that Xians think HS is a sin. That's a given. Therefore, that point doesn't need to be beat into the ground.

Why is HS a sin, but not me stoning my wife to death for not being a virgin on our wedding night? The bible advocates both.
 
What you might be trying to say is "why do most Christians think stoning non-virgins is a sin ... when it's clearly not one in the Bible?"

Alternatively, are you asking why Leviticus 19:19 is no longer considered a sin?
and do not put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread.
 
There is no good reason, really.

As society moves forward, certain things in the Bible are ignored since they seem archaic.. For example, the "stoning your wife" quote you provided. So Christians will say - Oh, that no longer applies - that only really applied to society back then - we know better now.

It's easy to pick and choose which parts of the Bible you want to ignore, and most Christians simply do not wish to ignore the "Homosexuality is bad" parts.
 
.Shane. said:
I can give plenty more.

I see what you are saying. Here is the answer. We do not live in a nation that still endorses OT Levictical Law.

Also, Jesus gave us a new convenant. Judgement over sin is Gods alone. That is why Jesus told those wishing to stone the adulteress "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone". That is why we can have such things as adultery, divorce and abortion as legal under the law, but still be viewed as sin, biblically. No sane christian today would claim they have a right to stone someone to death.

Now your next question if that is so, then why all the animosity over HS as opposed to divorce or adultery? As I mentioned before, there isnt any current lobby to paint divorce or adultery in any other light than how the bible sees it. People know divorce and adultery, albeit legal, is still bad and sinful. However, where HS is concerned, there most certainly is a lobby that has an agenda to make HS a societal norm and will even take biblical text extremely out of context in order to prove same. When people start changing how the bible has been taken for centuries, and in turn saying it as fact, it upsets people no end.

That help clear it up?
 
Eran of Arcadia said:
Like I said, I think the underlying reason is that there is a cultural aversion to homosexual practice - or at least was, until recently - that is independent of religious issues.

I'm not trying to put words into your mouth. I'll say what I think you mean, feel free to correct me.

But, you're saying the objection is not religious, but cultural? Therefore, how can it be wrong in the religious sense?

@warpus & el machinae.... in the end you may well be correct. I sincerely just want to see where this goes. Notice I haven't given my views or revealed my religious beliefs.
 
But wearing two threads is MUCH more of a societal norm! Why is there no massive Christian lobby preventing this upset?

el machinae.... in the end you may well be correct

How can I be correct? I'm trying to clarify your question so I understand it!
 
.Shane. said:
I'm not trying to put words into your mouth. I'll say what I think you mean, feel free to correct me.

But, you're saying the objection is not religious, but cultural? Therefore, how can it be wrong in the religious sense?

Like I said, my objections are purely religious, but not based on the Bible. As for others, I think that cultural objections give much more strength to religious objections than in the case of other things condemned by, say, Paul.
 
Eran of Arcadia said:
Like I said, my objections are purely religious, but not based on the Bible. As for others, I think that cultural objections give much more strength to religious objections than in the case of other things condemned by, say, Paul.

I'm just wondering - but where else can dogma come from but the Bible and/or interpretation of it?

Or is it just that you're not Christian or something?
 
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