Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Thanks again for the tips.

So I just got mauled by Ragnar. Is there any way I can know what his relative military strength is?

Also, I guess I need to understand religion better. Why do other civ's care if I accept their religion? Are they getting something out of it? What are those missionaries doing in my cities?
If you're playing BtS, espionage will eventually reveal information about your opponents' "power" rating in the Info Screen/Graph section. The BUG mod goes one step further, putting your power ration versus each opponent right in the score display. A tip: found a good production city, build the Heroic Epic there, and devote it to pumping out units non-stop. This will greatly assist your power rating.

Religion was introduced in Civ IV as a new diplomatic wrinkle. Some leaders care very much about your faith, some very moderately, some very little. Following the same religion as another civ eventually results in a big diplomatic bonus, leading to Pleased or even Friendly relations most of the time. Faith partners are there pretty reliable buddies, especially if you mind your p's and q's in other diplomatic regards. The AI will want to convert you in the hopes of making you a buddy, hence all those missionaries (keep in mind the AI has no idea what a devious back-stabber a human can be). In addition, if the AI owns the shrine for its religion, it earns 1 gold per turn for every city where that religion is present.
 
So the AI values religion, but actually having the same religion doesn't provide benefits or penalties otherwise?
 
You get a diplomacy bonus if you have the same religion, penalty if different, none if either you or the AI has no religion.
 
It's not the religions that you have that create the Diplomacy bonus, it's your state religion compared to theirs. (just a clarification)

And don't forget the "fighting with brothers of the faith" happiness issue.
 
I think that was towards me ;) But yeah diplo is for state religion
 
@steveg700:

In BTS, you have to have enough espionage points (EP) against an AI in order to see the military strength. You can check how many EP you have and how many you need on the espionage screen (last icon in the row of icons in the upper right corner of the main screen). You can also reassign the accumulation of your EP to the different AIs that you have met by using the "+" and "-" buttons next to their pictures. Once you have accumulated enough points to see their military rating, you will see a number next to their name on the main screen right lower corner scoreboard. 1.0 is parity. Below 1 means they have more military than you, above 1 means you have more than they do. These numbers are the rough ratio of your military strength divided by theirs. I believe those numbers come from BUG mod. However, with or without BUG mod, once you have enough EP for this, they will appear on the graph showing how the various empires compare in military, food, wealth, etc.

Religion is intended to be a diplomatic tool in CIV. There is no reason for why the AI care but they do. If you share their religion, they like you better. If not, they like you less. If you refuse their request to convert, they give you an extra demerit. How much each cares varies. For example: Mansa hardly cares at all, while Spain is nuts for religion - share it and she's your best pal, have a different one and she'll declare war on you.
 
Great info.

So, if I don't agree to open borders, then early in the game, AI civ's won't know how well (or poorly) a city is defended. Sounds like I should have just said not to Ragnar.

I had something like 2 axemen + 2 archers fortified and with walls, + Statue of Zeus.

He had something like 3 axemen and 4 spearmen. I thought the various bonuses and penalties would help me at least break even. This early in the game, he was only one turn from the city, so it's not like I had time to reinforce.

What made the problem really bad is that, at a casual glance, all units look alike, be it a lone warrior or a seven-high SoD.
 
It doesn't really matter. In most games, just assume if you're Rangar's neighbor that he will be coming for you. Or as soon as Monty has iron, and you're his neighbor, he will be coming for you. His attacks though are more humorous, His UU attacking axes in high culture cities is a waste of time. And good exp points for the troops. Once he gets construction, its just a bit more interesting.
 
Is it correct that you can only ID a SoD by mousing over it? Should be some kind of indicator of stack comp. I mean, these guys are carrying flags.
 
Is it correct that you can only ID a SoD by mousing over it? Should be some kind of indicator of stack comp. I mean, these guys are carrying flags.
You can identify the units in your own stacks by clicking on them and looking at the bar in the centre-bottom of the page. Or you can go to the F5 screen.

To identify units in enemy stacks, you can either mouse over them, or go to the F5 screen. There you can select which civ's units you want to know about, and can even click on unit types or specific units to see which ones are located where.

Does the Medic line of promotions stack with the March promotion? For example, I have a medic 3 in a stack of march units; will the march units heal much faster?
Yes - as long as the March units end their turn in a tile that they medic bonus applies to, they'll all get the faster healing. :)
 
Well, looks like my first Civ IV gameis is going to more or less end with a ragequit.

Ragnar won't stop zerging, he won't declare war on any of the other (much weaker) civ's, and nobody else is interested in declaring war on him. I've repulsed his stacks with minimal casualties, rather than turn his attentions to softer targets, he just keeps sending more stacks of six or seven units. I'm not interested in playing a zerg game, so I'm not going to have the units to march out and take his cities while still defending mine. Am I missing something?

Combat doesn't seem to make a lot sense. My catapults do nothing in battle except get smashed, and yet are the first units the AI throws against the enemy when I attack. Experienced axeman are getting dropping by inexperienced swordsmen. Whatever I thought a first strike was, it apparently doesn't involve striking first.
 
Well, looks like my first Civ IV gameis is going to more or less end with a ragequit.

Ragnar won't stop zerging, he won't declare war on any of the other (much weaker) civ's, and nobody else is interested in declaring war on him. I've repulsed his stacks with minimal casualties, rather than turn his attentions to softer targets, he just keeps sending more stacks of six or seven units. I'm not interested in playing a zerg game, so I'm not going to have the units to march out and take his cities while still defending mine. Am I missing something?

Combat doesn't seem to make a lot sense. My catapults do nothing in battle except get smashed, and yet are the first units the AI throws against the enemy when I attack. Experienced axeman are getting dropping by inexperienced swordsmen. Whatever I thought a first strike was, it apparently doesn't involve striking first.
Sounds like you're running into two main issues.
  1. Diplomacy: Remember the discussion about religion earlier in the thread? Yeah--maybe you can see why it's important. If you share a religion with one or more reasonably powerful civs, you can usually get them to Pleased or Friendly and they're much more likely to attack a mutual enemy for you. Later in the game you can make defensive pacts so if Ragnar attacks one of you, you all declare war on him. However, you still have to take care of your military...
  2. Military: The AI sucks at war. Ragnar sending wave after wave of mini-stacks that don't really accomplish anything other than annoy you is typical of the AI's approach to tactics. Get your Heroic Epic city, i.e. your military unit pump, up and running ASAP. It's often the second city I found in most of my games. Have it producing units and don't ever stop. The better your power rating, the less likely the AI is to declare war on you. If it happens anyway (some AIs are just psychos), siege weapons like catapults are key. Throw a few barrage-promoted catapults at Ragnar's stack to weaken it and inflict collateral damage on several units (yes, you'll lose some cats as a result, maybe even all of them). Then attack the stack with your mounted and foot units to wipe them out. The same approach works for capturing cities, with the added step of using the catapults to remove the city's defensive bonus first.

    For more information on these and other topics, check out the War Academy here on the site, especially (self-promotion time) the articles linked from my sig below. I would, in particular, refer you to the Beginner's Guide and the Stack o' Doom articles to help address the two needs you've experienced. And have fun!
 
Is it correct that you can only ID a SoD by mousing over it? Should be some kind of indicator of stack comp. I mean, these guys are carrying flags.

There are little round indicators along the top of the owner's flag for the stack that supposedly gives some hint at what is on the plot. I have never found this to be useful (too small and there is no explanation of what the colors mean) except that, to some extent, more dots = more units. The problem with that is there is apparently a maximum of 7 dots, so seven dots is 7 or more units, which is not a real good indicator since Montezuma might be attacking you with 7 units or 70 (probably out of date) units.
 
Well, looks like my first Civ IV gameis is going to more or less end with a ragequit.
I sympathize; I've done the same.

If you post a thread in "Strategy and Tactics" and pause for help every once in a while, people will critique your game and make suggestions. You could do it with a restart of your current game, or start a new one.
 
After letting the rage subside, I reloaded and tried to save my empire. Basically, I spent serious moola upgrading archers to longbowmen, then I pulled units completely out of ancillary cities and used them to buttress my two star cities. Ragnar did not go for the helpless targets (I don't how far line of sight is, so maybe he simply didn't know they were defenseless). Instead, he made an ill-conceived attack against a stack of experienced longbowmen. losing two large stacks of (mostly) axemen and spearmen.

Meanwhile, Ragnar has gotten into the war elephant business, which apparently are a significant trump card. At 8 Strength, they can wail on longbowmen, axemen, swordsmen, and needless to say throwing mounted units at them is a bad idea. He made a train between my city and his of elephants and catapults. Now at the start of every turn, I get a crapload of messages saying "your city defenses dropped by _%". This must be the catapults' doing.

I make swordmen to retaliate, but he's across a river fortified in a forest. Becomes apparent that this is a bad idea. OTOH, with Heroic Epic finished, I can output a unit every turn. He doesn't seem to feel like attacking. I ask for peace, and am surprised that acquiesces.

Next thing I know, there's some sort Apollistic vote I'm supposed to participate in. Having no good explanation of what's happening, I abstain. Everyone else votes for Saladin. And then immediately afterwards Ragnar and his Egyptian vassal declare ware on him.

I am apparently at the front on science. I've just got gunpowder, and the oromo warriors look mean as hell and cheap to build. I also have trebuchets, which I think Ragnar lacks (he has knights though). I think now would be a prime time to take him if I felt I knew what I was doing.

Any advice? Specific questions:


1) What are catapults and trebuchets good for? When I attack a stack with them, they are the first unit pulled out of the stack to fight, they inflict seemingly no damage, and are smashed with one blow. Apparently, they can lower a city's defenses without actually moving in. What's up with that?

2) I am going broke. I've built markets, courthouses, and forges in cities with gold and gems (I have four, which seems like a goodly amount), plus my leader is Organized. Despite all that, I'm hemoraging money. if I don't dedicate a city to gold production, I produce negative GPT. I think it's the massive investment in defensive units that's killing me. How can Ragnar do it?

3) I'm outputting bushels of culture, yet my culture war has stalled. I have a Stele (+25% culture), a Cretive leader, libraries, academies, theatres, and produced wonders and great artists. I've got the Sistine Chapel. Forget grabbing a city. Doesn't even look like I'm pushing borders back. Maybe I'm too far away. Does flipping only happen when civ's build cities right next to each other?

4) What was that Apollistic vote thing about, and why did everybody but me vote for Saladin instead of abstaining?

5) Probably the most irritating thing: the game uses iconography as a kind of shorthand. Religions and civics pop up and offer bonuses when I have praying hands or a blue squiggly symbol in my cities. Does the Civopedia contain a key for all these icons?
 
I'm going to echo Dalamb's suggestion that you post in the Strategy and Tips forum, perhaps with a new game. Take frequent screenshots, make a post describing what you're doing and why, and solicit advice. Then play a few more turns and repeat the process. You can learn a lot by doing that. You can also learn a lot by reading such threads in the archives.

I'll also suggest the War Academy, particularly the Introductory Courses section. I learned a lot from those articles when I started Civ IV.

To answer a few of your many questions:

1) What are catapults and trebuchets good for? When I attack a stack with them, they are the first unit pulled out of the stack to fight, they inflict seemingly no damage, and are smashed with one blow. Apparently, they can lower a city's defenses without actually moving in. What's up with that?

Siege units, i.e. cats, trebs, cannons, artillery, are probably the single most important component in an offensive army. When you approach an enemy city, there will be a "bullseye" icon. Click on this to cut the defensive bonus of the city down to--or at least close to--zero. (This bonus comes primarily from culture, but walls and the Chichen Itza wonder also contribute to it.) After that, attack with the siege units by moving onto the city. Yes, many of them will die, so make lots of them. But they damage multiple units with each attack. Once your siege has softened up the defenders, then attack with your regular units and they'll go down like dominos.

2) I am going broke. I've built markets, courthouses, and forges in cities with gold and gems (I have four, which seems like a goodly amount), plus my leader is Organized. Despite all that, I'm hemoraging money. if I don't dedicate a city to gold production, I produce negative GPT. I think it's the massive investment in defensive units that's killing me. How can Ragnar do it?

You've probably over-expanded just a bit, and a large army isn't helping either. But all is not lost. First, double-click on the gold and gem cities and make sure that those rich tiles are being worked by a citizen (a white circle will appear on tiles that are being worked). You can also add merchant specialists if you have surplus food and a market or grocer built. You'll find the specialists in the lower right corner of the screen; click the + or - button to adjust how many you have in that city.

You can also try trading away surplus resources for gold per turn. Try to get 7-10 GPT, but if you're lucky you can get as much as 15 for a luxury or health resource, or even more for a metal or horses.

Finally, there's absolutely nothing wrong with building wealth, so go ahead and dedicate a city or two to that until you're back on your feet.

3) I'm outputting bushels of culture, yet my culture war has stalled. I have a Stele (+25% culture), a Cretive leader, libraries, academies, theatres, and produced wonders and great artists. I've got the Sistine Chapel. Forget grabbing a city. Doesn't even look like I'm pushing borders back. Maybe I'm too far away. Does flipping only happen when civ's build cities right next to each other?

Extra culture buildings are a temporary solution to holding tiles. In my experience, the AI will almost always take over a tile in the long run, unless you capture or raze the city that's putting pressure on it. Distance is a factor--tiles closer to the city get more culture per turn added to them than distant ones.

4) What was that Apollistic vote thing about, and why did everybody but me vote for Saladin instead of abstaining?

The AP (and its modern cousin, the UN) is kind of complicated. Basically, the first vote, and every five or so votes thereafter, are to decide who's in charge. That sounds like the one you saw. For the AP, votes are allotted based on the population of your cities with the AP religion. AIs vote based on their diplomatic standing with the contenders.

After the first vote, the guy in charge can propose specific resolutions that can be voted up or down by a majority (or supermajority) of members. These can also be defied (automatically fail), but that carries a :mad: penalty in your cities. Even so, it's worth doing sometimes.

5) Probably the most irritating thing: the game uses iconography as a kind of shorthand. Religions and civics pop up and offer bonuses when I have praying hands or a blue squiggly symbol in my cities. Does the Civopedia contain a key for all these icons?

Yeah there are a few: :religion: :commerce: :hammers: :gold: :science: :culture: :D (Well, not that last one.) Not to mention the ones that aren't supported by the forums.

You kind of learn those with time. The blue squiggly symbol stands for hinduism, and the other religions each have their own icon. There's also commerce, culture, science, and others. Explore the city screen and hover your mouse over everything, and you'll get most of them.

Finally, you didn't ask specifically, but you can counter elephants with spearmen and pikemen. Elephants count as "mounted units," so units that say "+X% against mounted unites get that bonus against them (and chariots, horse archers, knights and cavalry). You can also use your own elephants. In that case, both sides will get the bonus against mounted, so that comes out even.
 
I'm going to echo Dalamb's suggestion that you post in the Strategy and Tips forum, perhaps with a new game. Take frequent screenshots, make a post describing what you're doing and why, and solicit advice. Then play a few more turns and repeat the process. You can learn a lot by doing that. You can also learn a lot by reading such threads in the archives.
I'll do this. Sorry to overload on questions. I see that some folks actually upload a save. Something to do when I get home.

Great advince across the board. One thing you said that caught my interest:

Extra culture buildings are a temporary solution to holding tiles. In my experience, the AI will almost always take over a tile in the long run, unless you capture or raze the city that's putting pressure on it. Distance is a factor--tiles closer to the city get more culture per turn added to them than distant ones.[/quote]
Isn't culture supposed to be a viable way to steal territory, even cities?
 
Isn't culture supposed to be a viable way to steal territory, even cities?

I didn't do a good job of explaining, so I'll try to do better here:

In theory, yes, you can try to steal territory with culture, and you can even get some short-term success flipping tiles. But in practice, you have to turn your :culture: slider up a few notches, which costs you :science:, and/or you have to build lots of :culture: buildings, which costs you :hammers: that could be better spent on other buildings or units. Generally, it's not worth the cost.

The AI, however, doesn't realize this, and they'll crank up their own :culture: slider to try to steal the tile back. At higher levels, they get bonuses to :hammers: and :commerce:, so they will beat you in the culture wars. Even at lower levels, they'll beat you unless you devote a fair amount of resources to it, and those resources are better used to meet whatever victory condition you're planning on. (You are planning on how you'll win the game, right?)

There's an exception to every rule, of course. If you're planning on a cultural victory, go nuts with the slider. If an AI founds or captures a city right on your borders, and you can culture-press it from two or three sides, then you can build some theaters, monasteries, and cathedrals, and see if you can flip it, or at least cripple it by denying it workable tiles.

Hopefully that was a better explanation for you.
 
Top Bottom