Racial tension in the Czech Republic

[Kyriakos]

Look, the Roma(ni? - I keep writing this because I am still unsure about which variant is more correct in English) are not a homogeneous group. Even within Czechia we have several large Roma(ni) cultural sub-groups: the original Bohemian/Moravian Roma(ni) who were mostly wiped out by the Nazis in WW2, the Slovak Roma(ni), the Balkan groups, etc.

The issues of identity and names are notoriously complicated, as you surely know. I can only speak about what is standard/accepted in Czechia, and here "gypsy" (CZ: cikán) is considered moderately pejorative when used by a non-Roma(ni) person for a Roma(ni) person. Among themselves, they often use this term, though.

Just to note that "cikan" is not the same term as "gypsy", cause the former comes from athigan(os). Gypsy, as noted, comes from "Egyptian", and alludes to the supposed first settlement of those peoples in the province of Egypt, during the Roman empire times.
Both of those terms refer to that group of wandering people, who are prone to form communities outside of the towns, in makeshift houses. They surely lead a very hard life, but i can't say i know much about why they remain in this state (ie if they view this life as their own lifestyle and so on, or are just unable to move out of it).

Important edit:

I now read that "athiganos" comes from a translation of a supposed indian term for "untouchable" (as in the lowest of the castes). Athiganos means the same (not to be touched) in Greek, and it seems to have also been the name of a (unrelated to the gypsies) religious movement in the arab expansion age. Also read that in most languages the term "gypsy" is directly derived from the mentioned egyptian root, but in some (eg german, and slavic languages) it seems to be a missunderstood version of athiganos, with which it is not etymologically related.

 

[Winner]

Just to note that "cikan" is not the same term as "gypsy",

Not etymologically, otherwise they're very close translation equivalents.

 

[Arwon]

Some of those flags are quite aesthetically pleasing.

 

[Borachio]

Then there's gitan, and gitane, in French. Etc.

I'm fairly confident that, unless a people use a word to describe themselves, all these sorts of words are, or can be, terms of abuse.

Oooh. Who knew Adam Ant was a gypsy?

 

[classical_hero]

Every time I see Romani, I keep thinking of the Latin Lesson in The Life of Brian,

 

[Domen]

I'm fairly confident that, unless a people use a word to describe themselves, all these sorts of words are, or can be, terms of abuse.

So you should start using the term "Sloviani" in English language, when writing about Slavic (since now: Slovian) people.

What about the Polish name for Germans - "Niemcy" - which literally means: "dumb people".

"Germans" also sounds a bit like germs, you should perhaps start calling them Deuchens.

 

[Winner]

What about the Polish name for Germans - "Niemcy" - which literally means: "dumb people".

Germans don't care and the etymological basis doesn't necessarily imply offensive connotations in the present.

Besides, "mute" would be a more accurate term for "němý".

 

[warpus]

Since when does Niemcy mean dumb people?

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

<ne>+<m..> == <not>+<speak/speech>. "[One who] doesn't speak [the language]" is more logical explanation. Plust, it might be fused "non-local".

 

[Domen]

Since when does Niemcy mean dumb people?

Name "Niemcy" originates from the word "niemy" (sing.), "niemi" (plur.), which means dumb person and dumb people respectively:

http://en.bab.la/dictionary/english-polish/dumb

"[One who] doesn't speak [the language]" is more logical explanation.

And "one who doesn't speak" = dumb person (see above).

Besides, "mute" would be a more accurate term for "n&#283;mý".

Well, indeed.

 

[Borachio]

"Germans" also sounds a bit like germs, you should perhaps start calling them Deuchens.

Indeed.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=German

You're not far out with "germs".

Dutch would be an accurate anglicisation of Deutsch.

 

[warpus]

k so I see the relation to the word structure, but do you have a citation that that's where the word actually originated?

Cause to me it seems like it's more likely that it originated with this meaning: "People who do not speak our language"

 

[Samson]

Look, the Roma(ni? - I keep writing this because I am still unsure about which variant is more correct in English) are not a homogeneous group. Even within Czechia we have several large Roma(ni) cultural sub-groups: the original Bohemian/Moravian Roma(ni) who were mostly wiped out by the Nazis in WW2, the Slovak Roma(ni), the Balkan groups, etc.

The issues of identity and names are notoriously complicated, as you surely know. I can only speak about what is standard/accepted in Czechia, and here "gypsy" (CZ: cikán) is considered moderately pejorative when used by a non-Roma(ni) person for a Roma(ni) person. Among themselves, they often use this term, though.

Just FYI, from a sample of 1, I have heard the opinion that in the UK gypsy is considered somewhat rude, and Romani is the preferred term. Not sure how much further this would go than the 1 romani who told me it.

 

[Borachio]

In the English language (according to the Oxford English Dictionary), Rom is a noun (with the plural Roma or Roms) and an adjective, while Romani (Romany) is also a noun (with the plural Romanies or Romanis) and an adjective. Both Rom and Romani have been in use in English since the 19th century as an alternative for Gypsy. Romani was initially spelled Rommany, then Romany, while today the Romani spelling is the most popular spelling. Occasionally, the double r spelling (e.g., Rroma, Rromani) mentioned above is also encountered in English texts.

The term Roma is increasingly encountered during recent decades[33][34] as a generic term for the Romani people,[35] although it is sometimes considered pejorative.[36][37][38][39][40][41][42] Because all Romanies use the word Romani as an adjective, the term began to be used as a noun for the entire ethnic group.[43] Today, the term Romani is used by most organizations&#8212;including the United Nations, the Council of Europe, and the US Library of Congress.[32] The standard assumption is that the demonyms of the Romani people, Lom and Dom share the same origin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

 

[warpus]

What the hell are we supposed to call them then if "Roma" and "Gypsy" are both suspect??

 

[Borachio]

The UN seems to be going with Romani.

But in the spirit of nomadism, the Romani will likely keep shifting their name. To keep ahead of the game, I guess.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

Why does every nationalist/rightest/whatever protest always have that one guy wearing that awful snow "camo"...if it can even be called camo.

 

[Borachio]

Where's your picture, please?

Ooh, that reminds me, I saw a guy in desert camouflage gear on the street, today. In rainy UK, in February?

Was he lost?

 

[NedimNapoleon]

The one in the OP. Second or third from the top. You'll see.

It's okay to wear camo fashion wise, for example if he was wearing DPM that'd be fine, but I hate it when people wear those "designer" patterns. Basically any camo you can get at a local mall. Camouflage is both a science and art, but fake camo just annoys me. Also snow camo seems to always be present at far right movements.

 

[Tahuti]

Dutch would be an accurate anglicisation of Deutsch.

As a person who is actually Dutch (which is certainly something else than German) I feel deeply offended by this statement.