Random Rants ΟΔ: broken record

[Timsup2nothin]

Yeah my bigger worry is the whole thing is a scam to extract information or money out me. I'm not convinced it is a real debt collector, especially with the whole thing being a robocall.

Robocalls are what they use. Most of the numbers on an old credit ap are no good. They can't afford to pay humans to call them all. Just ask them who they are looking for and tell them you don't know that person. If they start asking for information about you, tell them to shove it. Either way, you'll be off their list.

 

[Synobun]

Businesses that are going under, in my experience, also sell their client lists to unscrupulous collection agencies. Then the agencies rely on fear to get you to pay them for whatever value you still owe the business that is shutting its doors. Scummy. I had to get a collection removed from my file because of that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Businesses that are going under, in my experience, also sell their client lists to unscrupulous collection agencies. Then the agencies rely on fear to get you to pay them for whatever value you still owe the business that is shutting its doors. Scummy. I had to get a collection removed from my file because of that.

Why is that "scummy"? If you are going out of business and people owe you money, they do still owe you the money. Someone who buys that debt has every right to then collect on it.

 

[Synobun]

Because they include people who aren't within the range legally set for collections.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Because they include people who aren't within the range legally set for collections.

What range is that? Usually by the time they process their newly purchased debt into their system the payments are behind (through no particular fault of the debtor, but they are). They notify the debtor that they now hold the debt and arrange payment. It's only a problem if the debtor thinks that the business going out of business was some sort of "big break" for them and their debt should just "go away."

I'll grant that if they purchase debt and immediately file it as a collection account without making contact that might be kind of scummy, but I'm sure in some cases by the time they acquire the debt and set out to get it paid the contact information for the debtor can be obsolete. Listing the account as "in collection" is a way to get the debtor to contact them.

 

[Synobun]

What range is that? Usually by the time they process their newly purchased debt into their system the payments are behind (through no particular fault of the debtor, but they are). They notify the debtor that they now hold the debt and arrange payment. It's only a problem if the debtor thinks that the business going out of business was some sort of "big break" for them and their debt should just "go away."

I'll grant that if they purchase debt and immediately file it as a collection account without making contact that might be kind of scummy, but I'm sure in some cases by the time they acquire the debt and set out to get it paid the contact information for the debtor can be obsolete. Listing the account as "in collection" is a way to get the debtor to contact them.

Well, the authorities that be seemingly agreed with my perspective on the situation, so that's all I really need here.

The range, anyways, is 3-6 months (usually 6). They sent it to a debt collector after 1 month.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It's also frighteningly common for debt collectors to go after people that legally owe them nothing. I.e. they go after bad debt because the regulators aren't doing anything to stop it. There are a lot of people who's debt has legally expired (generally, 7 years) or who flat out never had the debt in question to begin with. But somehow they ended up on some list at a debt collecting agency and get harassed over it. Worse, lots of people cave and actually pay on these phony debts which sustains the whole system.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, the authorities that be seemingly agreed with my perspective on the situation, so that's all I really need here.

The range, anyways, is 3-6 months (usually 6). They sent it to a debt collector after 1 month.

That works out. When I asked what the range was I was wondering if your laws had limits on the amount, or what. Marking someone as "in collection" when they are only a month behind does seem pretty extreme. It also seems surprisingly fast for someone who purchased debt from a company that went out of business. Usually the difficulty there is that by the time everything gets processed the debtor has already gone through the "surprise, the people you owe money to aren't there any more," "puzzled, what should I do about this debt," "shrug, well, crap, not really a problem I guess" phases and has moved well into the forgot all about it process.

Entertaining anecdote about collection of debts:

Spoiler :

US law allows for collection of punitive fines as well as restitution for victims as part of sentencing criminals. Obviously, incarceration is also an option, as is a period of supervision following incarceration, commonly referred to as "on parole." Commonly, but in the case of the federal justice system inaccurately, since the parole system went out with the dinosaurs. No more "this is the total time" from a judge and then some parole board gets to decide how much of it is inside and how much of it is done on parole, the judge assigns two periods of time at sentencing, and that's how it is.

So, part of the function of the "parole officer" had been monitoring and collecting the payments on whatever fines and restitution the parolee was responsible for. They were tasked with this because even the government could figure out that if you take a guy already known for criminally supplementing his income and confront him with this debt you want an eye kept on them. Parole officers are already all over their charges finances, looking for unexplained income and spending, so it fit right in, and "terms of parole" included "paying as directed by the probation department." The US Probation Department has a bunch of guidelines on setting a payment schedule based on the legally acquired means of the miscreant, how the collected money is to be applied across fines and restitution that may be owed to multiple claimants, etc.

When the law was changed and the whole parole thing was eliminated there was a bit of poor planning (surprise) and the only way the law could be interpreted as written meant that the probation department tasked with the period of supervision could not end the supervision if they had any remaining debt to oversee the collection of. So, a guy who is sentenced to sixty months in prison, three years of supervision, and a million dollar fine, was actually looking at supervision until the million dollars was paid, which was probably the rest of his life. This got challenged, needless to say. For one thing, judges who say "three years of supervision" get really pissy when some low end bureaucrat reinterprets that into something other than three years, and for another the probation department isn't really staffed on a "just watch them all until they die" level. Since the rights of the sentenced individuals were clearly being violated the revised law could be applied retroactively to protect them.

So, rewrite. Rev 2.0. Supervision will end, at the designated time, regardless of the status of collection of fines and restitution. Great.

However, the sentencing regulations still said "to be paid through the US Probation Department under the direction of your probation officer." That could also be fixed retroactively as part of the correction. But retroactive doesn't apply if the change has already been made to protect the individuals rights, but the government continues to be stupid. So for a period of several months people were still given sentences that included "you will pay this money to a person who we have already determined will cease to exist at some point." Thus was a gigantic chunk of uncollectable debt created, until the boilerplate in sentencing was changed to read "and after the period of supervision through an intermediary as directed upon completion of supervision."

Criminals who were sentenced during that window have no way to pay their fines and/or restitution even if they want to. They can't just turn up at a US Probation Department office, say hello, and hand over money. Without an active case file the USPD has no guidance on how to distribute that money. Without monitoring the person's income and expenses they have no guidance on how to establish a payment structure. Since the sentencing document specifies that they are the ones who are supposed to manage this they cannot legally hand it over to anyone else. The assigned recipients of restitution have no way to collect, because their claim is permanently assigned to the federal government, not the individual. The criminal can't hand them money, unless they were to just call it a gift or something and accept that doing so didn't in any way affect the money they owe.

But the assignment of debt through a court is public record, and a public records search will turn up that this person owes this money. It won't show them as delinquent or anything, but in many cases you get some guy who is an ordinary working stiff, with a getting by job and an ordinary lifestyle and a routine application for a car loan or whatever...and then he has this outstanding seven figure debt that his current income is NEVER going to repay, and since it is a prior existing obligation a lender will automatically be placed BEHIND it in any bankruptcy or other debt resolution proceedings so there is no way in hell they are getting on that hook.

 

[Takhisis]

@#$%¿!*^ Wifi connections!

 

[Synobun]

@#$%¿!*^ Wifi connections!

That's what you get.

For being you.

 

[Takhisis]

@#$%¿!*^ Xenforo, since we are at it.

 

[Bootstoots]

Rant: I had to get up at 3 am from last Thursday to this Wednesday. Much like Jeb Bush, I'm very much a "low-energy person", and I've been too exhausted to do anything today despite very much needing to.

Rant: My infatuation module is buggy and has been producing strange and unworkable outputs for years. It's one thing if it generates crushes on women who are not single, or are not attracted back, or who have some sort of personality mismatch - it's understood that infatuation modules sometimes do this even when working properly. However, bizarre matches like a Lebanese Shiite Muslim (2016), an aromantic asexual (2017-8), and a 50-year-old woman with schizoaffective disorder (2018- ) go far beyond the pale. I demand a bug fix in the next patch.

edit: apparently 8 - ) is this: . De-coolified penultimate sentence.

 

[Synobun]

You could try loving me instead.

 

[Takhisis]

You were made for loving Syn, Bootstoots/Syn was made for loving you…

 

[Synobun]

I wear boots, I'm full of toots, and Bootstoots knows sin. It's a match.

 

[Hygro]

I missed work because I was being fool. I hope they don't fire me. Oh well, I guess I'll just get comfy and catch up on sleep.

Then one of my roommates decided his band was to rehearse in the room next to mine.

 

[Synobun]

Are we sure the world didn't really end in 2012?

 

[The_J]

So, I now need to think how I'll manage my parents and my sister when they come here for my defense. I need to book accommodations for them. My Dad doesn't speak English, my Mom not really, my sister and her husband well sorta. None of them speak Dutch, obviously. Part of the issue is that my brother-in-law might not come. And if he comes, he is sometimes hot tempered and annoyed very fast. And my parents are divorced, but are coming together. Maybe with my sister, unless my brother-in-law manages, then they might or might not come with their caravan. So I actually should not put them all together in a big holiday apartment, but that would be logistically the easiest thing. And putting them in several places has the issue that they'll be too disconnected. A normal hotel would be the easiest, but I don't really want to spent 800€ on that.
And I need to think about my own accommodation, and I absolutely do not want to be close to any of them.
meh, too complicated.

 

[Synobun]

My instinct here was to go, "Just don't invite them." but that comes from someone who would consider it a terrible fate to see a relative.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So, I now need to think how I'll manage my parents and my sister when they come here for my defense. I need to book accommodations for them. My Dad doesn't speak English, my Mom not really, my sister and her husband well sorta. None of them speak Dutch, obviously. Part of the issue is that my brother-in-law might not come. And if he comes, he is sometimes hot tempered and annoyed very fast. And my parents are divorced, but are coming together. Maybe with my sister, unless my brother-in-law manages, then they might or might not come with their caravan. So I actually should not put them all together in a big holiday apartment, but that would be logistically the easiest thing. And putting them in several places has the issue that they'll be too disconnected. A normal hotel would be the easiest, but I don't really want to spent 800€ on that.
And I need to think about my own accommodation, and I absolutely do not want to be close to any of them.
meh, too complicated.

Is managing all that for them really your responsibility?