Random SG 01 - The Randomness Begins

[Teproc]

Gurra is up next.

I like compass first. I would really like to have some solid naval units. Then we can go for metal casting and machinery.

Teproc, why metal casting first?

Workshops. Workshops are great, and the earlier you build them the better.

You might ask "but why didn't we research it earlier then ?"

Well that's because Universities are even more important, because science is everything. But really unless you're going for some fast Domination victory, Workshops are a super important building, and so are the Ironworks, which are conveniently unlocked at Machinery.

So then it's the simple reason that building production buildings before other stuff is always more efficient. If we needed the navy in the next 15 turns we would go for Compass, but it's not that urgent, so we can afford to do the more efficient thing.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Thanks Teproc. I learned another new thing. I haven't prioritized workshops in the past, but I will now.

 

[Gurra09]

I say we should go Metal Casting first. Maybe we can throw in Compass in between Metal Casting and Machinery though because the Galleases will be nice too. But definitely get the Workshops first. I can play my turns tonight if we have this sorted out now.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

OK Metal casting => compass => machinery

 

[Gurra09]

Here's how my turns went down.

T130: Inherited turn, nothing happened.

Darius completes Alhambra. He just keeps building nice wonders for us...

T131: Our 'Wine and Truffles for Ivory and GPT' deal with Attila ends and is not renewed because Attila doesn't have excess Ivory anymore and won't give us a reasonable deal for our luxes because he's hostile towards us. A stable is finished in Utique, where I set production to a Pikeman (because we already have some mounted and archery units but no melee). Gades finishes a Water Mill and starts building a Granary.

T132: Gades grows to size 4. The empire turns unhappy since we no longer get Ivory from Attila and to solve that I throw 750 gold at Cape Town for an alliance which brings Spices and happiness. This only delays buying a university in Carthage 2 turns which seemed more reasonable at the time than staying unhappy. Also I counted wrong and at the time thought there would only be a 1 turn delay... sorry.

Celts denounce Sweden. Cape Town requests we build a road to their capital.

T133: Hippo Regius grows to size 6. Our Quinquerueme is promoted to Boarding Party, +15% combat strength against Naval Units, after fighting off some Barbarian ship.

T134: Education is researched and I start us on Iron Working.

The Oracle is built in a far away land.

T135: Here I thought there would be a university purchase because I was totally sure a university costed 600 gold but they apparently cost 660 gold and we only had 653... my fault for playing when tired. Anyway, National Epic is finished in Carthage and I start them on a Colosseum because we desperately need happiness and nobody has luxury resources to spare. Carthage also grows to size 13.

Darius offers us 6GPT for Truffles and I accept.

T136: Iron Working is done and we start researching Metal Casting. Utique grows to size 9 and Gades grows to size 5. Carthage buys a university. Utique trains a Pikeman (promoted Shock I for open terrain) and starts on a Catapult. Hippo Regius finishes a Work Boat and starts building a Colosseum because our happiness is still dangerously low.

Sweden builds the Pyramids.

T137: We meet Panama City, a friendly Maritime non-allied city state to the east of Harar. Their only luxury is Wine.

T138: Hippo Regius grows to size 7.

T139: Great Writer Murasaki Shikibu is born in Carthage and creates the great work Genji monogatari. Carthage finishes Colosseum and starts buildig a Market. Gades finishes granary and starts another Colosseum.

T140: Metal Casting researched, Compass started.

Our lands in 600AD:

Spoiler :

Demographics:

Spoiler :

We are second in tech, only Attila is ahead of us. Great job getting ahead the others in tech so fast, we're only in the Medieval Age yet and this is an Immortal game!

Cape Town is at 60 influence with us which means we will lose them as Allies next turn and along with that Spices and happiness which will bring us down into unhappiness. We do have gold to buy some more influence if we want and in a few turns we will have two more Colosseums too.

I started us on the Metal Casting => Compass => Machinery tech route so when Compass is done we should research Guilds and then Machinery. Probably get some Workshops going in our cities asap.

Our scout has explored all of our continent and the only blank spots on there are a few tiles in Persian and Ethiopian lands.

Spoiler :

They could probably head down to the Swedish and Celtic continent and have a look around.

Edit: I forgot the save, oops! It's attached now.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Here is the line up:

Bugs <= on deck
Polus <= Traveling. Skipped until return.
Teproc
Gurra <= just played
Eric <= UP

Happiness is nearly always a concern at immortal level. I think we pay Cape Town for the In the meantime I think focusing on coliseums and then the circus maximus might be an on-going project to keep everyone happy.

workshops and some galleasses should be up next. Notice the nice size fleet that Attila has built up.

Is Ethiopia still around? It looks like Darius might have finished Haile off.

Tech is going well.

 

[Gurra09]

Yes, I was going to mention that; Attila's fleet. He has a lot of ships and 4 of his 5 known cities are coastal which means he can build a lot of ships and if we end up in a war against him (which we probably will since he is hostile and quite close) a navy of our own will be of good use both for defense and attacking his ships and cities.

Ethiopia is still around, they have Harar just south of Persepolis. You can see the tiny green territory with a red dot in it on the mini map. Persepolis is actually Darius' only city which means if we attack him we will get not only major warmonger penalties but extreme for wiping out a whole civ unless Darius gets another city somewhere. Boudicca doesn't seem to do that well either, I saw Edinburgh was a Swedish city now (don't remember if that was mentioned in a previous turn log) and I could see on the trading screen that Gustavus had conquered Dublin too. So there are basically four major players in this game: us, Suleiman, Attila and the yet unknown civ.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

So for the immediate future we need workshops and a fleet. I think mostly galleasses, but some Q Boats for melee fights would be a good combination.

Civ military strategy going back to at least Civ II has been based in combined arms. On the sea ranged plus melee provide a solid fighting force.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

So for the immediate future we need workshops and a fleet. I think mostly galleasses, but some Q Boats for melee fights would be a good combination.

Civ military strategy going back to at least Civ II has been based in combined arms. On the sea ranged plus melee provide a solid fighting force.

Exactly. if we want a good navy, we should split Ranged and Melee 50/50

 

[Sir Bugsy]

OK. So Eric, want to play?

 

[Menelann]

Hey guys, if you don't mind, I'll join the discussion

Navy always work great against AI especially considering the starting location we should be able to protect our land with like 4 frigs (and we do have 4 iron) for the long time. Though I don't really consider galleas/triremes to be so useful.

About dealing with Darius, I personally rush for navigation in such cases, four frigs (build galleas, upgrade) and few privateers/caravels should be enough to deal with the city.
Another good thing about it that we grab navigation by the way and it gives us an observatory in our capital !

The bad thing about this plan is that the Persepolis is on the other coast, so navy must go a long way and Darius could have his caravels and frigs online.. Though I don't see any iron in his territory. So I suggest navigation in tech.

yeh, I really don't like land wars till flight, they're so painful
Though in this case Darius doesn't have much production with just one city... So maybe just crossbows and pikeman's are enough.

P.S. Did you guys think about taking Harar too?) It looks very open to navy attack and defending Harar from Attila looks much easier than defending Persepolis. Though we would be crazy warbringers after eliminating two civs xD

And yes, if we don't go Acoustics right away (and I suppose we don't) we won't hit Renaissance before the next policy. So it won't be rationalism again. I guess +3 production in coastal cities (exploration) may be good considering our cities (21,17,10,9 hammers).

Also we may want to close exploration to get rid of Darius's culture pressure (31 perc, what, when??) through culture bombs from hidden cites. It may be even a reason not to trade with him yet before we have stronger culture. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwUQ9WD0bmWMb2lnS2d1UG9qLW8&authuser=1
If we're going for a CV we may want to deal some damage to Darius at some point. If Attila won't xD

 

[Menelann]

Hey all!
If no one minds, I'll join you
Hope to have a good game, I like your start.
Though I share Teproc's doubts in the fourth city, but I always end up with stupid AI's cities in such places, so I guess it may be better.

About the current situation I wrote a huge massage and it now needs to be approved by moderator, so wait for it please

 

[Menelann]

Mm, nothing appears... I'll write it again, sorry if it'll be the double post.

About the war with Darius.
First I suggest to move one of our archers (and quinkreme?, it's nearby anyway) to his borders to have a look at his army. Hopefully it's tiny because of all these wanders. If that's the case probably we should just rush Machinery and crash him, after all he can't produce too much with just one city.
I like navy armies, but don't really think that they are too useful before caravels/frigs. But it's quite far from now (like 30 turns if I remember correctly?). Plus in this case his city is on the other side of the continent so it takes some time to get there.

So I suggest to go for Machinery directly or wait till navigation, then 4 frigs and caravels should be enough to deal with the city. First way is faster, second- safer and we can build observatory (like another NC) in the capital.
I really don't just think galleas are so useful at this stage.

Also having Persepolis sooner (with Machinery?) is better since he is generating 10 tourism already, it's a lot for so early in the game (his country is familiar to all the civs that he has met).

Also it's usually useful to have a road right to enemy's borders when starting the war so we can send (one?) worker to build it. And roads between cities would be nice for war as well. Though there is a lot to improve too... But I think that we want to start war soon roads should be prioritized. Everything else could be improved during the war though it cuts down money flow since we do have city connection already
That's about it for the war

Also, if we're not going acoustics right now (and we are not, right?) we won't enter Renaissance before the next polycy (11 or 12 turns). I suggest +3 production in coastal cities (our hammers are like 21,17,10,9, so it's significant), any others opinions?

P. S. Did you think about taking Harar?) this position is so defendable against Huns, if we're not going DV it may be useful. Though we'll be some crazy warbringers after eliminating two civs, lol. I never did it so it could be funny to try
also we could hope that Darius will send settler somewhere xD

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Since Polus may be gone and Optional definitely is, welcome aboard Menelann. I'll slot you in behind Eric.

Bugs
Polus <= Traveling. Skipped until return.
Teproc
Gurra <= just played
Eric <= UP
Menelann <= on deck

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think Attila is going to be starting a war with us before frigates. Yes, the galleass isn't the greatest naval unit, but a fleet of four of them plus some Q-Boats will deal with Attila's fleet and all the land units that will come with it.

 

[Teproc]

Exactly. if we want a good navy, we should split Ranged and Melee 50/50

I don't think this really applies to CiV, ranged units are much, much better than melee ones. You do need a good amount of melee, but it's more like 75/25.

The warmonger hate from eliminating Darius should be fine as long as he's not friends with everyone. The penalty for eliminatnig a civ is not as big as it used to be.

 

[Menelann]

welcome aboard Menelann.

Thank you!)

I don't think this really applies to CiV, ranged units are much, much better than melee ones. You do need a good amount of melee, but it's more like 75/25.

Agreed. I actually use melee naval only to grab cities/other boats with privateers.
Ok, we can go with compass to be save from Atilla. Btw, how is our military score doing? M, we are sixth, not the last, so we should be save from Atilla right now.

Then Compass-Machinery and preparation to war looks like a reasonable plan.

What about roads? If we to start a big war they definetly worth it, but hopefully our war would be quick so I'm not so sure.
The road from Carthage to Utique plus 3-4 tiles North-East from Utique seems to be useful.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

What about roads? If we to start a big war they definetly worth it, but hopefully our war would be quick so I'm not so sure.
The road from Carthage to Utique plus 3-4 tiles North-East from Utique seems to be useful.

Roads can be very useful, but a road from Utique to Carthage would be useless now. The distance is just too short (although we should build a road that connects all 4 cities together)

 

[Teproc]

I don't think we need roads at all. It's not like Persepolis is that far away, and our workers have other stuff to do anyway.

I don't know, maybe I'm just stingy. maybe a few near the border to help move units around but an actual road from Carthage to the border seems like a waste to me.

 

[Menelann]

Ok, let's move scout (or archer) to see how is a military condition at least.
If we won't need to produce much military during the war no roads is fine, true.
But if we will, 10 road tiles would save around 5 turnes for each unit from the capital and I think we can afford to pay it for like 20 turns.

Let's look at his army first?)