[BTS] Random (Sitting) Bull game

[Pangaea]

Thanks

Don't think I've ever seen that before, nor did I know the game worked that way. Have seen uncovered tiles in my midst before, but perhaps it was several tiles then, or further from cities. Pretty useful here though, as the city should be able to start working the gold earlier than it otherwise would have.

 

[unas876]

Totally forgot about Huayna . In my universe, Incas don't exist. But yup, Incas would certainly be the best pick in life-or-death situation... I would feel dirty though. Sitting Bull is still a top character for me.
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I don't understand: what if you research BW (or an early AH) and find copper/horses near you? Doesn't SB drop down to below average with one good trait + a really bad trait + a really bad UB + a now pretty much unhelpful UU? I would agree he can be good and its nice to not have to worry about how you're gonna manage barb defense but I'd say its very situational in terms of how useful that is. Starting with Fishing isn't the greatest either unless you start with seafood, especially since it eliminates some bulbing strats you might think about playing a PHI char. Wouldn't it be nicer to play like Hatchet or Ramses or Liz or whoever and just go Archery if you play a barb heavy map in case you don't have copper/early horses?

Btt: I was actually gonna play this map, take a little break from getting pummeled by the Deity AI. Tried to open it the same way I open NC games. But I can't find the game in my scenario list. Anyone know why that happens? I'm using BUG mod.

 

[Pangaea]

This game isn't a scenario like the Nobles Club games. It's a normal savegame, so you should save it to the normal folder for that (../saves/single on my end).

I've played to past 1000AD in this game, and intend to go to space. Probably with State Property as it doesn't look like I would ever get a GE (and also got a 5% GArtist instead of GM).

 

[Pangaea]

Have played to 1500AD, so figured it was suitable with an update.

Spoiler :

After wiping out Ragnar, it was time to fill out all that great land to the west (sounds like the Europeans after landing in the Americas, but I digress). Unfortunately the city Ragnar founded on what I thought was a small island, but turned out to be Mehmed's continent, was razed since it was just size 1 (the git had been building a worker forever). But I managed to quickly get out a new settler and re-settle it before Mehmed did. Useful for trade routes, and there was spice.

It took a while and some effort to repair the economy, and I had a fairly big army of catas and elephants. Could have continued the war on Mehmed, but I wanted a trade partner and better trade routes. Maybe it was a mistake. But I also noticed Mehmed had the biggest army in the world, so it might have been messy, and certainly postponed fixing the economy!

He didn't get Alpha for a stupidly long time, but I refused to do it myself, and moved onwards towards Education instead. At some point we got out some caravels to locate the other AIs (forget if I self-teched it, but I probably did). The other guys were pretty advanced, and Taj Mahal went before I located who built it. Taoism had been founded, but I had to do Philo myself for a chance at Lib. Thought it was lost, but you know how it is, you have to try. This is close to 1000AD, and I was missing a pile of techs, so despite the risks I had to use Education to backfill a bit:



Mehmed didn't have Philo, which is why I risked it, plus the dire need to simply get those techs. HR was very much needed. By the time I was able to research Liberalism, several AIs had both Education and Philo. It was a close call, but I got there first:



Mehmed already had Astro, but it was the best move I think, for much better trade routes, and something to trade with.

From there on and in, I basically just sat back and built building and teched. Launched a Golden Age and 4x switched into Rep-Caste-State Property-Pacifism. Then got out some more Great People. Most sit around waiting to get burned: 3GS, 2GM, 1GA, 1GSpy (from Communism). I lost the race for the other GPs.

Oh, and I finally built a wonder too, the first one in this game. Kremlin! Often I don't get nearly as much use out of it as I think when building it, but in this game I intend to whip out factories + coal plants. Speaking about coal, I was kind of flabbergasted to learn there isn't a single source of coal on the entire continent. Even Mehmed only has the one tile. Thankfully Augustus has several though, and I managed to land one on the same turn I traded him Steam Power for 2 resources + 2gpt. Hope it will last for a long while. Coal is very much needed in space games. Hopefully I have better luck with aluminum. Missing that too will be a huge problem.

Below are a few screenshots of land, techs and relations. It looks allright now. Just a shame Mehmed is a shade short of Friendly, and it will take a long while to get AC up there because I met him horribly late (still no open borders bonus). Worst enemy status all around, more or less, has been tricky, and I got burned on it a few times. Incidentally, that's the reason Mehmed is no longer Friendly. Isabella isn't exactly my biggest fan, but that's how it tends to go with that nutter when you're not in the same religion. Has a nasty habit for stupid demands too. She's plotting, and has been for a long while, and I hope it's against Hannibal again, as they've been a war previously.







I'm a little frustrated at the lack of a truly good Ironworks city. The capital is best, but I like to split the bonuses up for spaceparts. Perhaps Mound City is best. But I'll need to tear down an awful lot of Towns, which is never a pleasant move Speaking of Towns/cottages, I have a pile of those. 37 Towns so far, and about half as many villages. It was needed to get the economy under control.

Attaching the savegame as well, in case somebody wants to look. I'm sure I've made mistakes as usual, but that aside, the game should be in a good position to win space. And with plenty of hammers and access to Rifles, even if some tit like Isabella declares, it should be no problem to defend the puny force she may ship across (looks like she barely has any boats though -- unlike Mehmed who has about 924 ships ).

PS: It's funny to look at Mehmed's power graph. He has upgraded one or two units to Rifles I think...

 

[unas876]

Thx, I got it working now.

Spoiler :

Boy this is looking spicy. Even on Immortal, a lot can go wrong here. Ragnar will declare I think. I haven't played far yet, but his land doesn't look that good and there don't seem to be other targets at least on this landmass. My plan: Oracle CoL, make sure he has a religion shared with me. That is a must I think. Afterwards go for Monarchy fairly quickly while blocking him off and grabbing some of this juicy land. HR is his favorite civic, so maybe there is a chance to get him to friendly. But since there are no other guys (yet) it will be dangerous still since you can't see if he is plotting. The other idea would be to rush him but Dog Soldiers are rather useless here. Bank on horses? Or pray to be able to make it to Elepults? Nah, as far as I can tell it will be safer to not piss him off and go for Archery fairly soon in case he does declare.

 

[unas876]

Dude...

Spoiler :

I lost the Oracle three times now. 1400 BC (fair enough), then 1500 and 1600 BC... I know on Deity you'd wanna be there by round about 1800 BC, but Immortal I thought 1400 should be good.

 

[Pangaea]

@Unas

Spoiler :

Unlucky, at least based on my game. It went in 1040BC there. Goes to show, though, that it's risky to base one's game on getting the Oracle.

 

[Fish Man]

@Unas

Spoiler :

Unlucky, at least based on my game. It went in 1040BC there. Goes to show, though, that it's risky to base one's game on getting the Oracle.

Spoiler :

To be honest, this was my first Oracle-less game in a while. To build everything I needed to rush Ragnar, I simply didn't have enough time for a 150 hammersink. Though now that I think about it I could've oracled construction, and I did have marble... But it was getting into the 1200's BCs and I wanted to keep this game as reroll-free as possible. So, I still believe that not going Oracle was the right choice - if for nothing else, then to practice not using Oracle as a crutch.

 

[Pangaea]

@Undefeatable

Spoiler :

For what it's worth, I didn't go for it either. Had other priorities at the time, and going for all those religious techs is a big detour. Oracle with PHI also means there is a pretty big chance you'll get a Great Prophet, and perhaps more later, and I didn't want that.

 

[Fish Man]

@Undefeatable

Spoiler :

For what it's worth, I didn't go for it either. Had other priorities at the time, and going for all those religious techs is a big detour. Oracle with PHI also means there is a pretty big chance you'll get a Great Prophet, and perhaps more later, and I didn't want that.

Spoiler :

Oh, right. Great prophets, what are they good for? Ugh, absolutely nothing. Seriously, though...apart from GA bait, great prophets are IMO the most useless GP. At least great spies can be used for espionage economy strats or contributing towards revolts for much easier city caps. But great prophets...2 hammer 5 gold specialist? Yay? Or a shrine that maybe gives you 10 gpt by the late game? Yeah...not a fan. I didn't even consider this aspect of the Oracle, so thanks for pointing it out..

 

[Pangaea]

If only they could be used for target practice. Fill one of them full of holes, and all your units, current and future, gets +10% City Raider. Now that would be nice

 

[unas876]

Spoiler :

Well I didn't think the prophet was gonna be a huge deal because in my strat the whole landmass, with any luck even Mehmeds landmass was gonna be filled with Confucianism. That makes quite a juicy shrine. And you never know where else it might randomly spread. Gonna give this another whirl later today.

 

[unas876]

Imm, 500BC

Spoiler :

Alright so I got the Oracle this time at 1440BC but dude... Not sure if the trouble was worth it. Sure, I'm sharing a religion with Ragnar now but that wasn't even enough to get him to pleased. Furthermore I got Monarchy and have switched into his favorite civic, but I did not consider that for the bonus to get activated first of all he needs to switch into that civic



Currently REXing. Am in the lucky position to have a fairly profitable shrine and I have Ragnar blocked off to the point where I can easily close borders with him to stop any settler parties, should I remember to pay attention to it, which I might not. Currently on the way to Aesth, then maths I think and then GLib. By then there should be an academy up and I can make my way to CS.
But boy is it annoying to have to take the detour to Archery despite Dog Soldiers and horses! But Ragnar has a truckload of chariots If he declares he could wipe me out with those easily so I have my gold city to the east with Totem Pole and soon barracks just pumping out Archers.

All in all I think it would have been a lot better to just rush Ragnar, maybe even steal a worker from him. Because the kicker is: Mehmed hates my guts now since he founded Judaism. I'll be in war sooner or later anyways.

 

[Pangaea]

@unas876

Spoiler :

The AI really knows how to place cities. Birka... I mean.... WTF Had he placed it SW you could have irrigated the corn post-CS. Doesn't he think about that? :naughty:
4 cities by 500BC isn't a lot, but I suppose it's a consequence of the Oracle. Having a religion is at least a clear benefit, and Ragnar will eventually become pleased, but I see Mehmed happened to found Judaism, so it probably would have spread to you guys too eventually.

Sounds like you're planning for peaceful co-existence so it will be interesting to see how that pans out. I thought about having another go with that in mind, but not sure I will bother. Think I'm unfortunately getting a bit fed up of the game currently, and am struggling to finish any saves.

Btw, was it Ragnar that razed the barb city west of Chaco?

 

[sampsa]

on Oracle

Spoiler :

I think it's pretty pointless to go for Oracle with such good land. Just get them juicy river cities up asap, build cottages, get monarchy and trade it to Rags, gift a city and he is friendly. On immortal, marble+philo trait pretty much guarantees you'll win liberalism, if you want.

 

[unas876]

@Pangaea

Spoiler :

Yeah that was kinda curious. I'm like FRICK DUDE when that barb city popped up. It totally ruined my junk. I wanted to settle there but slightly differently in order to get both the clam and the fish so I would have razed the city anyway. But with Dog Soldiers and Chariots it would not have been so easy to get through 4 Archers. In comes my boy Ragnar with a few Chariots and takes the city before it can grow to size two

@sampsa

Spoiler :

Not sure about first impression here since I can't see it without BULL. But in my previous tries Mehmed didn't get a religion so I didn't think I could get Ragnar to friendly without that. I suppose since every AI always trades Alpha I could have gone that route and hoped that he would get Alpha but I didn't even think of that...

 

[sampsa]

@unas876

Spoiler :

I'm pretty sure you can get him to friendly in the BCs even without religion. Anyway on imm, you can nearly always win Taoism pre 1AD if you want (Confu is also pretty easy unless someone happens to take it with Oracle). +1 OB, +1 peace, +1 resources, +4 fair trade +1 liberation is +8, so maybe you still need +3 or +4 from shared civic. Earlier OB and resource gifts obviously help, too.