Rat 41 CCM - AW a first attempt

[ThERat]

I would still build the Senate in Milan as we do need more than just one city that is able to build stuff. It will be able to make more than just 6 shields it currently does as it will grow too once we get more irrigation there.
Rome is already at 26spt which is great for 1 turn legions.

Of course if the team thinks we should make the uber-production city, I am fine too.

NP, I don't understand how you MM Rome to 28dpt as it is already MM to max production, am I missing sth here?

I agree after getting iron, we should try and occupy that mountain to isolate one city and restrict their access to our land. Anyway, after absorbing their initial chariot stacks, we should attack them.

 

[ThERat]

oh, I finally found what was missing in Rome, of course we should re assign that tile to make 28spt there and get the siege workshop in 2.

Nice

 

[Northern Pike]

Yes, the sprawling-over-several-tiles-for-maximum-effect city graphic makes it hard to see that we're working that unimproved grassland tile.

I'd just far rather have another 25% of what Rome produces until Physics makes the Senate obsolete than another 25% of Milan's production. Milan will become more productive, but the difference in the quality of the sites is so great that it'll never catch up to Rome. It's true that Rome will produce a Legionary a turn with or without the Senate, but OTOH I'd calculate that for most of our GA, Milan will produce one every two turns also regardless of whether it has the Senate. Getting maximum shields out of our capital served us well in the last game, and I'd expect it to work here. But it's a close call, and I agree that the rest of the team should give their opinions.

 

[Northern Pike]

One more nicety: because of the restrictions on mountain movement in this mod, the slave for the iron colony will be able to move onto the iron mountain without a road, but its escorts won't be able to follow. So the one-turn roading stack of workers that builds the road to the mountain should also road the mountain itself, redundant though this would normally be when a colony counts as a road. The workers will be able to move onto the mountain and road it all in one turn, just as with clear terrain--another CCM change.

 

[CommandoBob]

Despotism
60% Tax
00% Science
40% Luxury

646 gold, +38 gpt

Republic in -- turns.

City Builds

1. Rome (11) temple in 2, grows in 17.
2. Milan (4) Roman Senate in 2, grows in 4.
3. Naples (7) vRoman Spear in 3, grows in 10.
4. Venice (3) temple in 6, grows in 7.
5. Genoa (3) slavery in 1, grows in 9.
6. Florence (1) Roman Symbol in 3, grows in 9.

Luxuries
01 Spices are connected.

Resouces
01 Horses are connected.

Military

• 01 Workers
• 01 Warrior
• 18 Archer
• 05 Chariots
• 00 Slaves
• 04 Enslavers
• 06 Southeuropean Workers
• 13 Roman Spearman
  • 46 Allowed units
  • 48 Current units
  • 02 gpt unit support

Compared to Scandanavia (Despotism) we are Strong.
Compared to Carthage (Despotism) we are Strong.
Compared to Korea (Despotism) we are Strong.
Compared to Indo-China (Despotism) we are Average.

Plans
No new cities expected in this turnset.

MM Rome to 28 spt and switch to Seige Workshop, followed by Temple.

Note: the uncovered workers SW of Milan are now covered, but those NE of Milan are not. Which means that ThERat and Northern Pike are both right and wrong at the same time about uncovered workers.smug: )

Iron Colony? Where? That colony of Korea's whose details are occulted by the fog or the Lonely Mountain SE of Milan?

Roman Senate in Rome or Milan?

Once we get the third temple, build a Christian Community (10 shields) in each of our cities for more cheap culture.

Both Florence and Naples need Romans Forts to build Vet units.

A market in Rome and Naples might be a good way to get more revenue.

Worker stack 2NE of Florence (5 workers, 1 Archer and 1 Spear) road the forest tile to connect to the roaded mountain tile that Korea guards with Archer/Spear combo. When vacant, occupy that tile with a strong stack.

Note to self: only Great Wonders can trigger Golden Ages, not wins by Unique Units.
'Nohter note to self: Academies are early Libraries. Libraries need Printing Press, Acadamies need only Writing.

Don't see any Great Wonder like Sun Tzu's Art of War from C3C, which gives a barracks in each city on the same continent.

 

[Northern Pike]

Hmmm, good observation that that Korean colony has to be on iron. But founding our iron colony right where we expect to be fighting would be an extra complication, so I'd stick with Lonely Mountain.

I hope we'll get more input on where to build the Senate before you play. If not, yours is the deciding vote.

I'll just repeat that the slave for the colony needs to start moving next turn, even though we'll have to take it off a job.

Don't see any Great Wonder like Sun Tzu's Art of War from C3C, which gives a barracks in each city on the same continent.

One of the basic ideas in CCM is to make veteran units hard to get, though as the Romans we're partly exempt from that. So Sun Tzu really wouldn't fit the concept.

 

[Elephantium]

Can Milan reach any good breakpoints with the Senate that it couldn't reach otherwise?

By contrast, does building the Senate in Rome make 1-turn units in the MA possible?

How many Legionaries could we build in Rome if we build the Senate in Milan?

 

[Northern Pike]

1. If we assume that the first useful breakpoint is 25 spt for one-turn Legionaries, I don't think so. Milan is pretty feeble at the moment, which is the basis of my position.

2. One-turn Age of Discovery units would require 40 spt, which Rome could reach at size fourteen with slavery and the Senate. That'll be a realistic size when we're in monarchy, and Rome's four high-food tiles aren't penalized. Of course happiness might be an issue, but I think it's feasible.

3. Despite being a Great Wonder, the Senate only costs ten shields. So if I understand the question correctly, there's no opportunity cost of the sort you have in mind.

 

[ThERat]

After thinking about it, I do agree to build the Senate in Rome. The base production is so much better than any other city we have. It would be w waste to build it elsewhere.
We could easily reach 30spt which means 2 turn elephants as well.

So, I agree on siege workshop in 2, senate in 1 (starts GA), temple in 2 as we make more than 30spt and maybe a theater in 2 too to reduce lux to 20%

And CommandoBob, we want to connect the iron south of Milan to be safe. And we want that quick, so do wake up a slave mining in the north and send him south towards that mountain immediately.

Once we have roaded that mountain, we can then start to get at Korea building roads as well.

 

[vmxa]

I have not looked at the save, but it would seem we get more out of the Senate in Rome. Cbob we do not have any slaves? I know I got one from an enslaver and we had at least one other enslaver get one?

I am surprised no one has tried to use an auto unit without upgrading, I know I fell into that my first game, more than once I think.

 

[CommandoBob]

Cbob we do not have any slaves? I know I got one from an enslaver and we had at least one other enslaver get one?

We do have slaves, but they do not register with CivAssistII. I did not try to count our captured workers by hand.

 

[Civinator]

Despite being a Great Wonder, the Senate only costs ten shields.

There are a lot of such cheap wonders for many civs in CCM (p.e. Kremlin, Brandenburg Gate, Buckingham Palace, Arc de Triomphe and so on). The reason is, that these wonders produce special units for that civ. If the wonder would cost a lot, per example the first autoproduced pretorian would have to fight against musketeers and this wouldn´t be good and not historical. Additionally these buildings are Great Wonders, so they can trigger a Golden Age (GA) for that civ. I find the methode to receive a GA for a civ in a certain period of history by a civspecific Great Wonder much better than the way Firaxis tried to trigger the historical GA with unique units.

 

[vmxa]

We do have slaves, but they do not register with CivAssistII. I did not try to count our captured workers by hand.

I see, I was wondering why you listed as zero. I would not count them up either, it will would become a nightmare to do as we go along.

 

[ThERat]

CommandoBob, how are things getting along? If you are not able to finish your turns, you can always ask for a skip or swap.

I don't want this SG to get very slow. We are still in the early stages and turns don't take that long. I like the initial enthusiasm everyone is showing and want to keep it that way.

Thanks

 

[CommandoBob]

I got through three turns last night and might be able to finish up tonight.

We are in our Golden Age, but just barely. The first turn of if has not completed. Normally in a GA we focus on infrastructure and that is my plan at the moment.

When I get home I will post the turn log so far and the current save. Then I'll be away for several hours until I can play again.

 

[CommandoBob]

0 0400 BC

Rome: temple in 2 -> Seige Worshop in 3; work the last forest tile instead of the unimproved grass; Siege Workshop in 2.
Milan: Roman Senate in 2 -> Roman Fort in 4.
​

[IBT]
We learn Mysticism.

Genoa: slavery -> Roman Fort in 4.

1 0375 BC

No units inside our borders.
Korean Archer, Spear and Chariot 2S of Florence.
Viking Spear 1S-2SE of Venice.

Exploring Archer moves 1N, forest -> forest.
Exploring Warrior moves 1E, hill -> hill.

Wake Slave (Carthage) and it begins its way to the Iron.

Worker stack NE of Florence: 1E and road.
Workers begin to irrigate 1E of Florence; move nearby Spear to protect them.
​

[IBT]
We learn Philosophy.

Getting Ready to Rumble

Spoiler :

Rome: Siege Workshop -> Roman Senate in 1.

2 2900 BC

Around the Empire
Korean Archer, Spear and Chariot 1S of Florence.

eChariot takes out Korean Spear and Archer (2 of 2, 0 of 2e).
vEnslaver converts Korean Chariot into a slave (3 of 3).
That slave heads towards the Iron, too. Slave (Carthage) already moved before this capture.
Move Spear and Archer to protect the now exposed Enslaver from another Korean Chariot.

Exploring Archer moves 1N, forest -> forest.
Exploring Warrior moves 1E, hill -> coastal hill.

Worker Stack: 1NE, road completed 1S-1SE of Milan.
​

[IBT]
Korean Chariot rolls over our Spear, but is flipped by the eArcher (4 of 5, 0 of 3e).

Men in Togas

Spoiler :

Roman Senate is built in Rome.
Our Golden Age begins.

Rome: Roman Senate -> temple in 2.
Milan: Roman Fort -> vHorse in 2.
Naples: vSpear -> vSpear in 2.

3 0325 BC

Around the Empire
Viking Spear 1S-1SW of Venice (forest).

Two Korean Spears and two Warriors 2S of Florence.
One Korean Spear visible 2S-1SE of Florence, on the mountain road.
At least two units, both Spears (I think) move east from the mountain road tile.
One Viking Spear 2S of Venice.

Let the Viking Spear inside our border either fortify or move into open ground.


Slave (Carthage) moves back north.
Worker stack moves 1SE and roads; Spear, Archer and Korean Slave follow.

Enslaver and Archer 1S of Florence, both wounded, move into Florence and the lone Spear in the area.
Exploring Archer moves 1E, forest -> forest, to join the fun at Florence.
Exploring Warrior moves 1N, coastal hill -> coastal hill.

Florence: rSpear in 3 -> Roman Fort in 3.

Golden Age - Turn 1.
​

South Rome 325 BC

Spoiler :

IBT has not happened; city builds can be changed.

And the save is attached.

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for posting the midway save. Basically everything looks fine.

We can cut the lux rate to 30% now that we're in our GA.

It wouldn't hurt to cover the worker stack next to Milan with one more unit--perhaps an archer from Venice.

 

[ThERat]

Do decrease the tax rate. I'd say if we can eventually reach 20% lux we should stay there and not increase again to make some money.

I would continue to kill Korean units until they dry up a bit and we have enough soldiers to attack. Praetorians will be excellent to cover our stacks with their 3/3 strength.

 

[vmxa]

I forget what is the GA length in CCM?

 

[Northern Pike]

Twenty-five turns, unless it's been tweaked since our last game.