Rat 41 CCM - AW a first attempt

[Northern Pike]

We're out of monks for culture bombs, and almost out of holy men to generate them, so the tactics will be more difficult now. For that reason, perhaps we should stand on the defensive against the Mongols until we've closed down the northern front, although normally it would be tempting to get started against Piraeus.

We have a lot of hussars in Kampong Cham. Could we move them east so that we'd have a sufficient force to attack Angkor, or is there too much enemy activity around KC? To compensate, we could comb some units out of rear-area towns such as Bursa and Leptis Magna and send them towards KC, even if it means hiring clowns for a while.

Rat, did you have an idea for where our settler now south of Udine might found a city? It's hard to tell where it's headed.

Yes, definitely Printing Press and then the naval line, even though it seems unlikely that we can grab EIC this late.

 

[ThERat]

The settler is heading towards the forest tile at the coast just east of the fortified musket. As the hill is roaded it will be just nice to close the front that way. It will hopefully divert the boat attacks from our core too.

As for hussars, we can divert them to attack Angkor for sure. There are a few attacks here and there on Kampung Cham, but we don't need that many units there. I wanted to wait for a few more cavalry before attacking Angkor as it surely has around 5-6 defenders inside. If we attack, we must make sure we take out the enemy units in one go before they can heal again. So, I think having 15-20 attackers would be just nice for a capital.

 

[ThERat]

@NP, don't forget that the tech required to build EIC needs the tech that gives hussars. As far as I can tell, even Mongols didn't have physics yet and they are strong, big and rich. I don't expect others to be much more progressive with regards to technology.

 

[Elephantium]

@ThERat:

I thought Muskets were 4/5...am I thinking of the wrong unit?

East India Company would fit nicely in Venice, I think. Bologna would probably be another good spot.

As for 15-20 attackers, after the St. Petersburg disaster, I COMPLETELY agree!

 

[ThERat]

I am referring to the current best defender we have, it's 6/6/1. Maybe I got the name mixed up

 

[Elephantium]

Ah. I was thinking of the best defender we had during my turnset. 4/5/1, Musketeers (upgrade from Arquebusiers).

There are too many units to keep track of them all!

 

[Northern Pike]

@NP, don't forget that the tech required to build EIC needs the tech that gives hussars. As far as I can tell, even Mongols didn't have physics yet and they are strong, big and rich. I don't expect others to be much more progressive with regards to technology.

Judging by Wonders, the Poles and the Chinese may be ahead of any of the civs we know in tech. But you make a good point about EIC's requiring the tech line to Absolutism.

 

[vmxa]

ThERat do not worry about forcing tech path, we will toss out our position. Right now you just happen to be saying what I would say and apparently NP as well.

Musketeers were being called musket by at least me as I was lazy. I stop that once the true muskets came online and they are 6/6. Most of the melee units will have decent attacks from now and can be use on weak or damage stuff.

We should be getting Lawyers now and they are stronger than the prior hidden units and make Great Artist.

 

[vmxa]

"ThERat"
"I had 2 MGLs one for the Great Palace, the other used to rush Mil Academy in Carthage."

Didn't mean to short change you , but the point is we can expect someone to get a bunch soon.

"With the 4th naval tech there is a wonder called East India Company which grants an extra commerce for a city. If we have a shot at it, we should select a city that can produce this wonder in reasonable time and really gain from it. Maybe a city near Rome would be good for that or even Carthage (if it is coastal, I forgot)"

Just depends on how close we are to starting in time with them. We can get a few turns head start someplace, but if it turns out someone has the tech well ahead of us....

 

[ThERat]

In my experience, the AI prefers the top branch with all those culture wonders and only then makes its way down. So, I expect them to be roughly level with us in techs when we hit those bottom techs.

We will fall behind in tech when we have to cover those techs in the upper branch. When it comes to industrial age, the AI usually fumbles and the lack of tech trading really hurts them. Most of them only have 10-15 cities and won't be able to tech at a reasonable rate. Mongols and maybe Poland might be a different story though.

 

[vmxa]

Well the unmet nations have also not been at war all this time, with no break like Indo. Once we get contact and DOW, they will up their unit production and slow down the research some, I hope.

Mongols are going to face that now and soon will start to lose cities.

 

[CommandoBob]

Monarchy
60% Tax
20% Science
20% Luxury

12977 gold, +596 gpt

Clockworks in 1 turns.

City Builds (first build of its kind in Bold)

1. Rome (21) vCav (8.3.2, 80 shields) in 2, grows in 15.
2. Moscow (11) vMusketman (6.6.1, 50 shields) in 2, grows in 5.
3. Carthage (7) Academy (50% science boost, 80 shields) in 8, grows in 8.
4. Istanbul (13) vCav in 3, grows in 7.
5. St. Petersburg (14) vCav in 5, grows in 4.
6. Utica (5) vMusketman in 7, grows in 1.
7. Milan (14) vHussar (6.3.2, 70 shields) in 1, grows in 2.
8. P'yongyang (24) vCav in 1, zero growth.
9. Edirne (12) vMusketman in 2, grows in 9.
10. Saigon (21) vCav in 64, shortage/ will starve (everyone is a geek or taxman).
11. Novgorod (9) vCav in 5, grows in 6.
12. Leptis Magna (8) Granary (doubles city growth, 60 shields, Pottery -> Medicine) in 2, grows in 6.
13. Bursa (11) vCav in 3, grows in 2.
14. Naples (20) vCav in 5, grows in 16.
15. Wonsan (11) vcav in 5, grows in 12.
16. Rostov (12) Royal Barracks (only available in Monarchy, 60 shields) in 5, grows in 5.
17. Pusan (17) vCav in 5, grows in 5.
18. Theveste (6) Royal Barracks in 6, grows in 7.
19. Venice (15) vCav in 2, grows in 5.
20. Iznik (3) vCav in 6, zero growth.
21. Genoa (14) vHussar in 4, zero growth.
22. Namp'o (11) vCav in 1, zero growth.
23. Hippo Regius (7) Windmill (25% shield boost, 80 shields, Engineering -> Industrialization) in 3, grows in 5.
24. Uskudar (10) Academy in 4, grows in 7.
25. Leptis Minor (6) Theatre (1 Unhappy -> Content, 60 shields) in 30, grows in 11.
26. Izmit (16) Royal Barracks in 1, grows in 4.
27. Yakutsk (4) vCav in 10, grows in 8.
28. Florence (13) vCav in 4, grows in 3.
29. Cheju (10) vCav in 4, grows in 3.
30. Aydin (6) Royal Barracks in 2, zero growth.
31. Vladivostok (9) vMusketman in 3, grows in 9.
32. Sabratha (6) Academy in 8, grows in 3.
33. Turin (13) vCav in 4, grows in 4.
34. Rusicade (5) Granary in 54, grows in 10.
35. Pisa (13) vMusketman in 1, shortagegrows in 4.
36. Smolensk (15) Windmill in 18, grows in 9.
37. Bein Hoa (6) vCav in 14, grows in 19.
38. Antalya (5) vCav in 7, zero growth.
39. Kampong Cham (3) vMusketman in 6, grows in 3.
40. Bologna (15) vMusketman in 2, grows in 4.
41. oea (5) Academy in 12, grows in 5.
42. Orenburg (10) vCav in 8, grows in 5.
43. Champasak (3) Roman Symbol (Roman flavor, 10 shields) in 1, grows in 20.
44. Hadrumetum (7) Royal Barracks in 8, grows in 1.
45. Padova (9) Royal Barracks in 2, grows in 10.
46. Udong (2) Christian Community (needed for Christian buildings, 10 shields) in 10, grows in 10.
47. Krasnoyark (2) Granary in 10, grows in 4.
48. Modena (10) Royal Barracks in 1, grows in 2.
49. Battambang (2) vMusketman in 7, grows in 16.
50. Udine (4) Academy in 9, grows in 3.

City Build Recap
Cavalary [21]
Musketman [10]
Academy [5]
Hussar [3]
Granary [3]
Royal Barracks [7]
Windmill [2]
Theatre [1]
Roman Symbol [1]
Christian Community [1]

Luxuries
04 Furs are connected.
06 Incense are connected.
07 Spices are connected.

Resouces
02 Ivory are connected.
04 Saltpeter are connected.
03 Iron are connected.
05 Horses are connected.

Military

• 02 Workers
• 08 Archer (2.1.1, 20 shields)
• 09 Arquebusier (2.4.1, 40 shields)
• 28 Knights (4.2.2, 50 shields)
• 11 Cavalry (8.3.2, 80 shields)
• 07 Cannon (10 (8).1.2, 30 shields)
• 20 Legionary (3.2.1, 25 shields)
• 38 Musketeers (4.5.1, 40 shields)
• 04 Medieval Infantry (3.3.1, 40 shields)
• 01 Trebuchet (5 (5).1.2, 30 shields)
• 33 Musketman (6.6.1, 50 shields)
• 60 Hussar (6.3.2, 70 shields)
• 02 Supply Shipments
• 01 Yogi (3.1.2, auto produced)
• 00 Slave
• 07 Enslaver (2.1.2, auto produced)
• 06 Praetorians (3.3.1, auto produced)
• 17 Southeuropean Workers
• 01 Southeuropean Settler
  • 204 Allowed units
  • 253 Current units
  • 098 gpt unit support

Compared to Scandanavia (Monarchy) we are Strong.
Compared to Carthage (Monarchy) we are Strong.
Compared to Arabia (Republic) we are Strong.
Compared to Egypt (Monarchy) we are Strong.
Compared to Indo-China (Monarchy) we are Strong.
Compared to Mongol Khanates (Monarchy) we are Strong.

City Count

• Rome (50)
• Scandanavia (12)
• Siam (12)
• Arabia (11)
• Egypt (10)
• Carthage (1)
• Mongol Khanates (?)

Notes and Plans
Coming shortly; ran out of time today. Lots of posts with many things to consider.

Included A/D/M stats to help me keep the units straight.

Hussars can change to Cavalry, right?

Next tech is ?

 

[ThERat]

Hussars can change to Cavalry, right?

Next tech is ?

Hussars are 70s while cavalry is 80s. Hence, this might lead to a big waste of shields in some cases. Muskets are 50s.

You have to play around with those. In fact I would change Rome to a town clock before it finishes the cavalry. Anyway, I rather you build a hussar than waste 19shields (just an example). Of course you could also part rush units to a hussar then change to cavalry if the town produces sth like 10spt.

As for techs, please do read the posts after my turnset. It is vital that you take the time to read those strategic discussions and the next tech is discussed in great detail.

 

[Northern Pike]

If that was a question about upgrading, hussars don't upgrade to cavalry, so we'll be playing a fair portion of the game with two cav types. Nothing upgrades to cavalry, and both hussars and cav upgrade to a civ's first armoured car--in our case, the Lancia.

You may get to choose three techs, if we can burn through them in four turns each. We want Printing Press, then Navigation, then Naval Guns.

We've done a generally excellent job of getting Christian Communities and Roman Symbols built and re-built , but behind the lines Rusicade still needs its CC, and Iznik, Orenburg, Pisa, and Rostov their RS. As soon as our recently acquired Siamese cities aren't on the front lines, they'll all need both cheap cultural builds too (I'm aware some are working on them).

 

[vmxa]

Hussars are 70s while cavalry is 80s. Hence, this might lead to a big waste of shields in some cases. Muskets are 50s.

You have to play around with those. In fact I would change Rome to a town clock before it finishes the cavalry. Anyway, I rather you build a hussar than waste 19shields (just an example).

I think I would rather waste the shields, if we are talking about getting a Hussar in the same time as a cav. The cav is a much better attacker and has a better chance of winning a battle.

To me we are better off with a stronger unit, than being effiecent. I have had a few times where I was worried about not having enough units left in a town. This would have been improved with a better units.

The Hussar can lose an attack that the cav would have won, saving us all the shields the Hussar cost. Making progress easier and defense of the town better with one more unit in town as a deterent.

Later we even get to save 30 gold on the upgrade, should the cav last that long.

 

[vmxa]

Cbob thanks for the town counts. You are amazing putting in all the work to make those detailed pre flight list. I keep telling myself I am going to use colors for things like towns and leaders and other key events, but hardly ever manage to slow down and do it.

 

[vmxa]

Lets get those knights upgraded as soon as we can. I know some are not near a barracks. I hate to lose them because they are still attack 4.

I think it is time to put the Prets in places where they are only going to be MP's and no action, if they are not already.

What is the cycle time for Lawyers, we have a long way to send them to get them in action.

 

[Northern Pike]

Ten turns, I believe, and we won't be getting them from two sources as we did with holy men. So we'll need to be exceedingly careful with them, perhaps attacking only defense-one units.

 

[vmxa]

Yes careful, but are they attack 6 or is it 4. I am thinking it is 6. So they could grab some 1hp units once they get elite or when the unit is 2 or 3 defense. I always worry about defense above 5, even if red.

 

[Civinator]

To your questions about unit stats:

Here the civilopedia is nearly every time correct. So simply click into the CCM civilopedia and most of your questions will be answered at once.

The Lawyer has an attack factor of 6.

Arty units (cats, bombardes, cannons and so on) have a special movement setting that isn´t used in most mods for C3C. They are always units with two movement points => so they always have a change to retreat as any other movement-two unit. On the other side the movement value for each kind of terrain is setting much higher and this handicap for most units is compensated by giving them movement boni. But the arty units don´t have that movement bonus with the intended effect, that while beeing movement two units, they only can move one tile a turn without a road on it. On the other side they have a chance of retreating like any other movement-two unit.
This special setting allows the arty units to attack defenders with higher defense values and to soften them up. Before the arty unit is getting killed in the attack, it has the chance to retreat and allowing to attack the softened up enemy unit by another unit. Due to these special settings this also works for arty units that don´t attack on "roaded" terrain.

So at present I don´t have an access to the CCM biq, I think hussars don´t upgrade to cavalry. Both units upgrade to armoured cars. You only have to click on the unit and the civilopedia entry and you will see the correct upgrading path for your units (and only for your units).