Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
This is my gotit and as usuall I will play tomorrow XD
Rat25 - AWE Training Game #2
- Thread starter Own
- Start date
Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
I finished my turns...
Good news: Romes dead, I razed 4 cities, we settled some more cities, we have a MDI Army.
Bad News- My little sister burned my paper that had my turn log.
& I dont remember what my had exept the very important ones.
1) romes dead
2) we destroyed 2 Egyptian cities that where settled near (former dutch) Spices.
3) we destroyed Dutch city w/ Iron & horses (rebuilt)
4) we Had a MGL & built a MDI army
5) one of our cities in the south might fall :'(
And most importently.
6) I still have the save
The save ->http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96353/Rat25_Tad_Empire_350_AD.SAV
If you guys want me to go back & redo my turns let me know... other than that, sry for the lack of turn logs & pics (Lurkers)
Good news: Romes dead, I razed 4 cities, we settled some more cities, we have a MDI Army.
Bad News- My little sister burned my paper that had my turn log.
& I dont remember what my had exept the very important ones.1) romes dead
2) we destroyed 2 Egyptian cities that where settled near (former dutch) Spices.
3) we destroyed Dutch city w/ Iron & horses (rebuilt)
4) we Had a MGL & built a MDI army
5) one of our cities in the south might fall :'(
And most importently.
6) I still have the save
The save ->http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96353/Rat25_Tad_Empire_350_AD.SAV
If you guys want me to go back & redo my turns let me know... other than that, sry for the lack of turn logs
& pics (Lurkers)TheOverseer714
Overseer
Tad: 3 MGL's. Rest of team: Zero. No kidding, Tad's very lucky. As far as turn-logs go, we will survive. I use Word for mine, updating it as I play, and I copy and paste it when I post my save. Do-overs are a no-no, so we'll accept the turns regardless.
Pre-turn- As I expected, there were tons of MM errors. We're grossly overemphasizing shields while our growth suffers, and there are many blatant
errors. Like emphasizing growth in Hangchow even though it's food box at size six will fill long before it's acqueduct is finished, Shanghai working
an unirrigated plains instead of a grassland when losing the extra shield still results in shield overflowing for the pikeman that will be built next turn,
and among others, Canton is working an irrigated plains not on a river when it could work another that's on a river, that adjacent cities don't need.
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but it's these details that can be the difference between winning and losing, or between a good and a great player.
Also, there are workers with moves left, it's just good ediquette in SG's to finish the last turn.
[Btw, I know I signed up as a trainee for the AW, which I do need training with, though I am still good at MMing so I thought I'd give some
advice/point out errors]
Move some workers, and hit enter.
IBT- kill an Egyptian horse with an exposed elite MDI. Kill 2 war chariots with an -ahem- exposed MDI, after which it becomes elite, and then succumbs
to a third. Another -ahem- exposed ELITE MDI gets killed by an archer. I've learned recently in some of my solo AW games that you should treat
elites like gods. Don't take risks or exposed elites just for one 1/16 shot. If you can preserve your elites, you'll soon notice that you've got a big
pile of them and you can really start generating leaders. Whoops, I'm being a trainer again. Sorry. I suppose we could interpret that as, "a trainee
giving other trainees advice on his improvement stages in AW skill." Yeah, that's actually what it really is. [3-2]. We also get Theo and Gunpowder.
1. Shanghai pike > pike. Canton MDI > MDI. The situation from the preturn at Tver is the same as it is now, so Greebley or Rat could look at the
save from before and tell me if the following was a smart move. We have a 13/14 sword army next to Tver covering four workers, 2 russian, and 2
merkan. There is a Russian longbow and a few archers. Tver was previously guarded by a reg spear, but is now guarded by a vet, which means
it probably has three defenders, and sword armies are weak and will be attacked if health is too low by an LB. So I disband the workers and send
it to pillage. Smart move? Or not? Well, I want to pillage a road in no man's land that connects trade with the Dutch and the Egypts. But there's
a Russian LB and archer in the way, so I happily slay them both losing 0 hp [5-2]. Wow, I just noticed we have a reg MDI. Slaughter a spanish
AC and a mongolian horse with an MDI and an eSword, respectively. [7-2]. We have gunpowder three tiles north of Beijing. Kill another unit and
wound a random warrior [8-2]. We have tons of artillery and very few MDI to kill stuff with, probably because we're exposing too many of them.
Each one is more expensive than a settler, and we're in great need of those things, so let's be careful withem.
IBT- Kill a recently healed archer with an MDI. [9-2]. An Egyptian settler pair screws with my ambitions to pillage Egypts ivory this turn.
2. Kill that evil settler pair and decapitate one slave. The other tried to run aka I misclicked the keyboard. Disconnect the trade road between
Egypt, Russia, and the Nederlands, then I move onto the ivory. [10-2]. I expose a treb by accidnet after some bombardment. Ah well, no problem.
Kill five units on our eastern front and it's completely clear of AIs. [15-2]. Send the MDI army north to team up with the sword army to wreak havoc.
It may appear that a lot of stuff happened judging by the huge amounts of text in the turnlog, but that's really just because I have a nasty habit of writing my thoughts on my turnlogs, that I should try to break sometime.
Something that is really frustrating about this game is that we are not expanding very fast at all. That is very frustrating in any AW game. But what's worse, is that if you aren't expanding, that means you're building more military and concentrating on consolidation more, so you'd expect to see some super solid killing machines on our borders. But our vast army that is expected to take on 6 computers with production advantages consists of a stack of 10 trebs or so and some wounded MDI and swords. Are we treating our units, that need to be preserved in AW games more than any other, like disposables? This game is going to be tough to win, we'll have to play more disciplined. AWE can be a pushover if you're on a map with narrow lands so you only fight one at a time, but here we're sharing a front with 6 AIs!
Here's a picture. I'm semi busy monday and tues, but I can probably sneak the rest in.
errors. Like emphasizing growth in Hangchow even though it's food box at size six will fill long before it's acqueduct is finished, Shanghai working
an unirrigated plains instead of a grassland when losing the extra shield still results in shield overflowing for the pikeman that will be built next turn,
and among others, Canton is working an irrigated plains not on a river when it could work another that's on a river, that adjacent cities don't need.
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but it's these details that can be the difference between winning and losing, or between a good and a great player.
Also, there are workers with moves left, it's just good ediquette in SG's to finish the last turn.
[Btw, I know I signed up as a trainee for the AW, which I do need training with, though I am still good at MMing so I thought I'd give some
advice/point out errors]
Move some workers, and hit enter.
IBT- kill an Egyptian horse with an exposed elite MDI. Kill 2 war chariots with an -ahem- exposed MDI, after which it becomes elite, and then succumbs
to a third. Another -ahem- exposed ELITE MDI gets killed by an archer. I've learned recently in some of my solo AW games that you should treat
elites like gods. Don't take risks or exposed elites just for one 1/16 shot. If you can preserve your elites, you'll soon notice that you've got a big
pile of them and you can really start generating leaders. Whoops, I'm being a trainer again. Sorry. I suppose we could interpret that as, "a trainee
giving other trainees advice on his improvement stages in AW skill." Yeah, that's actually what it really is. [3-2]. We also get Theo and Gunpowder.
1. Shanghai pike > pike. Canton MDI > MDI. The situation from the preturn at Tver is the same as it is now, so Greebley or Rat could look at the
save from before and tell me if the following was a smart move. We have a 13/14 sword army next to Tver covering four workers, 2 russian, and 2
merkan. There is a Russian longbow and a few archers. Tver was previously guarded by a reg spear, but is now guarded by a vet, which means
it probably has three defenders, and sword armies are weak and will be attacked if health is too low by an LB. So I disband the workers and send
it to pillage. Smart move? Or not? Well, I want to pillage a road in no man's land that connects trade with the Dutch and the Egypts. But there's
a Russian LB and archer in the way, so I happily slay them both losing 0 hp [5-2]. Wow, I just noticed we have a reg MDI. Slaughter a spanish
AC and a mongolian horse with an MDI and an eSword, respectively. [7-2]. We have gunpowder three tiles north of Beijing. Kill another unit and
wound a random warrior [8-2]. We have tons of artillery and very few MDI to kill stuff with, probably because we're exposing too many of them.
Each one is more expensive than a settler, and we're in great need of those things, so let's be careful withem.
IBT- Kill a recently healed archer with an MDI. [9-2]. An Egyptian settler pair screws with my ambitions to pillage Egypts ivory this turn.
2. Kill that evil settler pair and decapitate one slave. The other tried to run aka I misclicked the keyboard. Disconnect the trade road between
Egypt, Russia, and the Nederlands, then I move onto the ivory. [10-2]. I expose a treb by accidnet after some bombardment. Ah well, no problem.
Kill five units on our eastern front and it's completely clear of AIs. [15-2]. Send the MDI army north to team up with the sword army to wreak havoc.
It may appear that a lot of stuff happened judging by the huge amounts of text in the turnlog, but that's really just because I have a nasty habit of writing my thoughts on my turnlogs, that I should try to break sometime.
Something that is really frustrating about this game is that we are not expanding very fast at all. That is very frustrating in any AW game. But what's worse, is that if you aren't expanding, that means you're building more military and concentrating on consolidation more, so you'd expect to see some super solid killing machines on our borders. But our vast army that is expected to take on 6 computers with production advantages consists of a stack of 10 trebs or so and some wounded MDI and swords. Are we treating our units, that need to be preserved in AW games more than any other, like disposables? This game is going to be tough to win, we'll have to play more disciplined. AWE can be a pushover if you're on a map with narrow lands so you only fight one at a time, but here we're sharing a front with 6 AIs!
Here's a picture. I'm semi busy monday and tues, but I can probably sneak the rest in.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I play cautious, Tad plays loose and reckless. If we could find a happy medium that takes the best part of our styles and eliminates the problems, we'd have a winner. I think the MM mistakes are cumulative between the two of us, and IIRC, Greebley and Rat want to re-order the roster so that they go between trainees to correct that problem. You(Own) are good enough that you could be a trainer, so I'm glad you follow Tad directly, not me
Cautious is good, especially when balanced with Obormot style looseness and recklessness, meaning expanding at all cost. But there's nothing good or balancing about losing elite MDI's just to kill the last buggin archer of the stack. That kind of recklessness is bad. The periwinkle isn't growing, our front isn't getting any more secure, and we're having bigger and bigger stacks coming at us. This game will be pretty hard from here on out unless we trainees really step up our play.
I agree with Own's analysis. Not killing when it exposes units is a very important part of AW. My advice is to practice it. Try to get unit loss to 5 or less. Letting units avance more into our territory, off of mountains, using cats to only attack 1 hp units - these can get you the 92-1 battle odds that some players can achieve. Note that really good odds like that is not the only thing that is important - sometimes it is good to use units for solid progress, but the first step is to learn how to get the good odds in the first place for ordinary play.
Note that very good odds are harder in certain situations like before Catapults, but we should be far enough that good odds is possible with decent RNG.
So I encourage trainees to try it out if you haven't before. I think the key word is patience. Don't attack if it is iffy both and think ahead about counter-attacks and the need to defend and prevent a unit from getting to a place where you are forced to attack at worse odds. Keeping a detailed log of battles wins and losses and who you attack or not and we can try to give advice on the harder decisions. Remember injured units will often retreat.
If time is an issue, then only play 5 turns. I think 5 good turns wins over 10 hurried turns. This is especially true in a training game.
Note that very good odds are harder in certain situations like before Catapults, but we should be far enough that good odds is possible with decent RNG.
So I encourage trainees to try it out if you haven't before. I think the key word is patience. Don't attack if it is iffy both and think ahead about counter-attacks and the need to defend and prevent a unit from getting to a place where you are forced to attack at worse odds. Keeping a detailed log of battles wins and losses and who you attack or not and we can try to give advice on the harder decisions. Remember injured units will often retreat.
If time is an issue, then only play 5 turns. I think 5 good turns wins over 10 hurried turns. This is especially true in a training game.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
lurker's comment:
The AI loves to attack stacks of 1. So anticipate that any unit close to the battle lines and by it's lonesome will be attacked. Expect it and have a way to handle it. And not having a stack of 1 is a way to handle it. A solitary Mace is not an Army of One and will soon become an Army of None.
If an AI unit is wounded inside your borders it will usually move out and try to heal. It can be caught and killed. If it does get away, and some will, it gets away. It will be killed later. Being killed later is better than trying to kill it now and leaving your weakened attacker exposed to counter-attack on the IBT.
You don't have to kill every unit that attacks.
You do want to kill every unit you attack if you can also protect the victorious attacker.
(And now back to your regularly scheduled instruction.)
The AI loves to attack stacks of 1. So anticipate that any unit close to the battle lines and by it's lonesome will be attacked. Expect it and have a way to handle it. And not having a stack of 1 is a way to handle it. A solitary Mace is not an Army of One and will soon become an Army of None.
If an AI unit is wounded inside your borders it will usually move out and try to heal. It can be caught and killed. If it does get away, and some will, it gets away. It will be killed later. Being killed later is better than trying to kill it now and leaving your weakened attacker exposed to counter-attack on the IBT.
You don't have to kill every unit that attacks.
You do want to kill every unit you attack if you can also protect the victorious attacker.
(And now back to your regularly scheduled instruction.)
Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
sry I wont play so "reckless" anymore I just wnated some MGL's Also I will try to step up the MM & after all this is why Im a Trainee 
im here to learn
I wont play so "reckless" anymore I just wnated some MGL's Also I will try to step up the MM & after all this is why Im a Trainee im here to learnI just got home after a crazy busy day, but it turns out tomorrow isn't as busy as I thought, so I can squeeze in 3 more turns probably.
The best way to get MGL's is not to take risks for leader chances, it's to keep your elites alive and to try to not lose them. Don't mean to beat a dead horse (though that is more or less what I'm doing, I'm just trying to emphasize an important point), but we could have been much farther along and have much more territory if we didn't have to stop every so often to consolidate the same front because we lose so many chasing that last dad gum archer in the stack. So, since our great defense of the war loving nationalistic China is 10 trebs and some wounded MDI's and swords, my next three turns will be consolidation of our front and a few more will also have to be consolidation. That doesn't mean we can't fill in the back country though, we only need a few horses to defend new settlements, and we have some settlers almost built in far away towns.
The best way to get MGL's is not to take risks for leader chances, it's to keep your elites alive and to try to not lose them. Don't mean to beat a dead horse (though that is more or less what I'm doing, I'm just trying to emphasize an important point), but we could have been much farther along and have much more territory if we didn't have to stop every so often to consolidate the same front because we lose so many chasing that last dad gum archer in the stack. So, since our great defense of the war loving nationalistic China is 10 trebs and some wounded MDI's and swords, my next three turns will be consolidation of our front and a few more will also have to be consolidation. That doesn't mean we can't fill in the back country though, we only need a few horses to defend new settlements, and we have some settlers almost built in far away towns.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Good attitude, Tad. I have had my own share of constructive criticism in these games, and I still have to remember not to take it personally. I am learning how to temper the aggression with surviving to fight another day. You are a good player, but these guys will make you better.sry
Ok, I've got lots of homework still tonight, but I'm busy tomorrow. If I can finish soon, I can finish the turns up, but if not by tonight, the next player can feel free to go on. I just don't think it's a good idea to take 1 hr and 30 minutes to do this while I have to explicate 4 quotes from Lord of the Flies (it's really hard, trust me).
So I should go on with the save posted above right?
I got it unless Own states he wants to play some more tonight.
I got it unless Own states he wants to play some more tonight.
Preturn: Go through the cities and like the builds. My only changes are to:
1) build a Pike, we have cities "in the back" which are coastal with no defense.
2) Capitol will build a MDI next turn but I notice we will get Chivalry next turn too. I switch to a Granary which will then become our first Rider.
I also notice Shanghai is working unimproved lands and will need a mine soon. We do have slaves in the area and some on the way to help.
More settlers would be nice we have lots of land we could settle. If the number of units look good I may very well build a bunch.
We have two Saltpeter just outside our borders, but don't want to connect yet I don't think.
Only America and Egypt have Iron at the moment.
IBT: We get Chivalry An unguarded Worker far from home is grabbed.
380 AD: Capitol switched to Rider.
There is a Spear and Archer I can kill, but only if I kill a Horseman behind them with an Army. MDI almost loses vs the Archer. Retreat a Worker/Spear from a Longbow (mongol). Kill a Mongol Horseman with an MDI.
A few cheap upgrades.
Capture Edfu. Keep for now but I am likely to give it up later. It may attract some units.
Note that we might get Chem or Education from the GLib. Decide to Lower lux and hire 2 scientists to start Minimal research on Chem.
IBT: Yep Edfu starts attracting all the riff-raff. One attack which we defeat.
390 AD: We got two annoying units in our backlands and no good offensive units. Bringing troop toward them though. Fortunately we have Pike cover.
Army goes to a ridiculous 4 hp attacking a Horse(6-8 hp damage taken). Build a new City - Ningpo
400 AD: Have to abandon Edfu. Two longbow next to it.
410 AD: Rider kills a War Chariot. Our Golden Age begins
420 AD: Advancing Armies. Build 2new city - Paoting and Yangchow.
430 AD: Capture Erdenet (mongol)
IBT: Mongols have Keshik which don't require Iron.
440 AD: Kill a Spear guarding a Settler. Build 20th city - Tree House
IBT: We got Education first. Turn on Science.
450 AD: Kill our first Keshik.
Notes:
We built the Heroic Epic and FP is a turn away. I would build Aquaduct next in FP city.
Armies were going after Mongols who seem to be sending a lot of attack 4 units and now have Keshik. They are the only one to be able to build Knight equivalent so far.
1) build a Pike, we have cities "in the back" which are coastal with no defense.
2) Capitol will build a MDI next turn but I notice we will get Chivalry next turn too. I switch to a Granary which will then become our first Rider.
I also notice Shanghai is working unimproved lands and will need a mine soon. We do have slaves in the area and some on the way to help.
More settlers would be nice we have lots of land we could settle. If the number of units look good I may very well build a bunch.
We have two Saltpeter just outside our borders, but don't want to connect yet I don't think.
Only America and Egypt have Iron at the moment.
IBT: We get Chivalry An unguarded Worker far from home is grabbed.
380 AD: Capitol switched to Rider.
There is a Spear and Archer I can kill, but only if I kill a Horseman behind them with an Army. MDI almost loses vs the Archer. Retreat a Worker/Spear from a Longbow (mongol). Kill a Mongol Horseman with an MDI.
A few cheap upgrades.
Capture Edfu. Keep for now but I am likely to give it up later. It may attract some units.
Note that we might get Chem or Education from the GLib. Decide to Lower lux and hire 2 scientists to start Minimal research on Chem.
IBT: Yep Edfu starts attracting all the riff-raff. One attack which we defeat.
390 AD: We got two annoying units in our backlands and no good offensive units. Bringing troop toward them though. Fortunately we have Pike cover.
Army goes to a ridiculous 4 hp attacking a Horse(6-8 hp damage taken). Build a new City - Ningpo
400 AD: Have to abandon Edfu. Two longbow next to it.
410 AD: Rider kills a War Chariot. Our Golden Age begins
420 AD: Advancing Armies. Build 2new city - Paoting and Yangchow.
430 AD: Capture Erdenet (mongol)
IBT: Mongols have Keshik which don't require Iron.
440 AD: Kill a Spear guarding a Settler. Build 20th city - Tree House
IBT: We got Education first. Turn on Science.
450 AD: Kill our first Keshik.
Notes:
We built the Heroic Epic and FP is a turn away. I would build Aquaduct next in FP city.
Armies were going after Mongols who seem to be sending a lot of attack 4 units and now have Keshik. They are the only one to be able to build Knight equivalent so far.
ThERat
Deity
Roster
Own
Greebley
TheOverseer - up
ThERat - on vacation until 8th Oct
Tad Empire_0_o
Own
Greebley
TheOverseer - up
ThERat - on vacation until 8th Oct
Tad Empire_0_o
TheOverseer714
Overseer
This is my "got it" post, I will either play this evening or tomorrow afternoon. I will welcome any commentary as to strategy and direction of play any time.
I would use our Golden Age to build some of the Required buildings. Libraries for example and some markets.
The Armies are good for going after the Mongols who are fairly strong in tech. Weakening them should slow tech.
There are currently few units at our borders. Be careful when they come back. Note that if you keep a town you can lure them away if you wish.
I would build some settlers to fill our lands. I tend to build less than normal though during a Golden Age as it weakens cities during their growth. Cities with Libs, Aquaducts (if needed), and Markets can probably build one unless the shield count is very good for building Knights. 12, 14, 18, 24 shields are all excellent knight building numbers (and anything 10 or less works too).
Note that MMing shield counts by trading squares to get to those numbers is worth the time.
The Armies are good for going after the Mongols who are fairly strong in tech. Weakening them should slow tech.
There are currently few units at our borders. Be careful when they come back. Note that if you keep a town you can lure them away if you wish.
I would build some settlers to fill our lands. I tend to build less than normal though during a Golden Age as it weakens cities during their growth. Cities with Libs, Aquaducts (if needed), and Markets can probably build one unless the shield count is very good for building Knights. 12, 14, 18, 24 shields are all excellent knight building numbers (and anything 10 or less works too).
Note that MMing shield counts by trading squares to get to those numbers is worth the time.
