RB19 - True Cultural Challenge

lurker's comment:

@Sullla:

I don't think that Garath's move was initial for JC's attack. Of course refusing did bring him closer to the treshold, but after all you were just -1 with him. Giving in would have sent him to +1 but given your over all weakness in units I think he would have declared anyway. JC is one of the best leaders to spot and exploit the easy prey IMHO. He is smarter than Monty or Alex are, but relations don't prevent him from attacking if you're weak military-wise - unless he is at least pleased. In one Monarch game I had a permanent alliance with Hatty, JC was my direct neighbor. We were at good footings for 5900 years but then he was sensing that my puny Infantry wouldn't stand before his Tanks. A bitter end towards that game that was.

Anyway, I think Garath shouldn't be too ashamed - the attack was just a matter of time.

At least that will make the game more interesting - I'll be pleased to see how you recover and strike back. It will teach some lessons for the lesser skilled players like me...

·Imhotep·
 
I would have given Julius the horse herd (edit: not elephants), but I suspect it was our weak military rather than the -1 relations that drew him to us.

Too bad about the Pyramids, but that does seem pretty early for Monarch. Do we know enough about Bismark's and Qin's lands to know that they didn't build it? If they didn't build it, our wonder-efforts might be competing with yet another Industrious leader on another continent.

I agree with the move toward Alphabet next, for trading and pleading.

About the Great Prophet: without the Pyramids, our next Great Person is likely to be a Prophet too, right? Or are we working some scientists? I missed that if it was reported. If we're going to get another Prophet, we could drop this one on the Confucian shrine. Probably not until the area is secure, though.

I'd rather have a scientist for a chance at founding Taoism, though.

Good work on the war, Sullla. Can't wait to see if the northern Settler survives. If he does, where should he found? Likely will be decided for us by AI Settlers, I guess.
 
lurker's commentanother thing to consider with JC ~ remember all the settlers lurking around ~ perhaps JC was aiming for Baghdad's site after all and was :mad: you stole from underneath him ~ just a thought ~ not that it matters now...war, unh, what is it good for? taking enemy cites...good god ya'll!
 
After reading this, I definately think I need to learn about the AI personalities. I know Monty and Ghengis are nutcases and Mansa is a tech whore, but that's about it.
It's important to know your enemy, right?
 
Okay I'm going to play this one now. Time to suck it up. Take on the most dangerous enemy in the game with only archers and chariots.

Where's my whip.
 
(Turn 0) 500BC
Time to plot how to save that settler.
First settling is just folly, Caesar will pwn it all over the place. Furthermore if it stays up there he can see it due to his borders. So really it has to sneak home.
I decide the plan is to whip a galley in Medina and send a rescue mission, this galley can also protect the sea resources. For now my plan is to put a turn into the galley, if the rescue still seems feasible it gets whipped. But if caesar moves towards the settlers, I'll just leave it. Whipping it can be done later should a roman galley show up.

(Turn 1)
The roman forces move towards Medina.
The settler and warrior start sneaking down the coast.

I decide to try and bait the Roman Axeman onto the plains with a chariot, with luck the second chariot can kill it. Otherwise the nasty sod is just going to get in one of the forests. If I can kill that axeman, then Caesar only has 1 axe and 2 spears incoming, which are much less a threat to Archers.
turns218lz.jpg


The Chariot in Roman territory Bravely Runs Away into Chinese territory.

(Turn 2)
The Roman Axeman takes the bait! In the fight it's reduced to 0.8/5 health. Bye-bye biatch.
While Medina can be configured for an Archer every 2 turns, I decide that it's going to get whipped, to get 2 archers out as soon as possible.
Damascus's borders pop, but the cows aren't ours yet. A roman archer has appeared south-west of Damascus, the new chariot from Rome is dispatched to help deal with it (dealing with it probably being the chariot way, with lots of dying). I've blocked the hill across the river, so the archer either has to end up on flat land or attack with horrible odds.
turns225yi.jpg


(Turn 3)
The Roman archer at Damascus chooses to stay on the far side of the river, I suspect it's going to move onto flat land next turn and die horrible to my chariots. The elephants at Dam have been farmed and now worked.
The Roman forces near medina are beelining to that city, there will be 2 archers, 3 chariots (one shock promoted) and a warrior waiting for them there.

The workers seem to run out of useful work to do so I'm upgrading the road network to optimize river crossings (if nothing else it gives JC more stuff to pillage).
I whip a granary into mecca, the overflow will be enough to complete an Archer the next turn.

(Turn 4)
The roman stack attacks Medina. An axeman and spearman die. One of our archers dies. One spearman is left alive, it is woodsman 2 with 2.2/4 health. I'll probably warrior zerg it if it doesn't kill itself next turn.

turns236hx.jpg

At Damascus a roman chariot has appeared, it is at 3.7/4 health from whacking our scout.
I take the selected chariot and destroy the archer (woo!) 2.0/4 health on our chariot.
The other chariot moves into the city to protect against the roman chariot, which I guess will want to roam around pillaging. I bring down 2 of the chariots from medina to ensure this threat will be destroyed.

(Turn 5)
Our chariot scouting Qin's territory ran into a barbarian warrior, which attacked in the interturn. Our chariot wins with about half health left. I promote it to Medic I.
The pillaging chariot:
It pillages a road. I attack it with a chariot (49% odds), our chariot withdraws! (20% odds). I destroy it with the 2nd chariot (96.4% odds), no health lost.

The Roman Woodsman Spearman Bravely Runs Away.

(Turn 6)
Nothing much happens this turn, our Settler has safely made it home though!
turns246yr.jpg


Well something else did happen, another roman chariot turned up at Dam, I've got a metric asstonne of chariots there so I decide to let it move, it can either suicide on the archer or try to pillage and get destroyed by our chariots.

(Turn 7)
Ugh, the roman chariot chooses life instead of suicide and another roman stack has turned up.
turns250vo.jpg

I attack the offending chariot with our Combat II chariot, we win, deep red health.
I move out chariots to deal with the incoming Romans. One of our chariots is a shocker. With luck we might be able to sue for peace before being forced to fight.

(Turn 8)
In the interturn the Roman Woody Spearman suicides itself on our CombatII chariot on the hill, minimal health lost.

The 2 axemen and chariot are headed to Medina.

Buddhist temple complete in Medina! It can now work all 5 good tiles, archers every 2 or G.Lighthouse in 13 turns. I decide to get another archer first since another Roman stack is incoming.

turns268ax.jpg

I also move our Prophet to Dam, since with hte temple in Medina we can pop out another prophet in just 10 turns.

(Turn 9)
Rather than leave this decision up to the next player I simply Build the Kong Miao. There. It's done. The shrine can boost the spread rate for us. If we want to lightbulb something run a priest and pop another prophet out.
I move all of our chariots in the area into medina, rather than trying to fight the romans in the open.

(Turn 10) 225BC
turns274vd.jpg

I've founded Najran. Didn't seem to be any reason to leave this decision to the next guy, it should be pretty safe down there.

The Medina situation:
There are 2 axemen, 2 chariots, 1 archer incoming.
In Medina we have 4 chariots, 2 archers (will be 3 by the time the romans can fight), 3 warriors. One of the chariots has Shock.

--Blake.
 
Okay then. Quack, you're up.

I've not got too much advice for the next guy, other than to pester Rome for peace. He wont talk yet but he should be about to ready, he might even be ready next turn so we can get peace without fighting.
He's suffered some pretty good losses at my hands so he might be willing for straight peace with no bending-over needed.

It might be a very good idea to run a priest at Medina in order to get the 2nd prophet out.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/RB19-BC-0225.Civ4SavedGame
 
lurker's comment:
Well, I will say it's nice to see such extensive use of the Chariots. It's almost like Civ1 all over again :lol:
 
Blake said:
... the new chariot from Rome is dispatched to help deal with it (dealing with it probably being the chariot way, with lots of dying)....

Nicely played and reported. God save the Kong.
 
Nice turns. The situation isnt as bad as it might seem after losing a city, but losing pyramids and ability to run representation obviously hurt.

Sulla, I was surprised also at hte build date for that, but for me pyramids has been very inconsistent. Sometimes its built as early as 900 BC while other games it isnt built until the 100 BC point.

Anyways, got it!
 
Very good recovery turns there. Saving the settler and getting him all the way down to found Najran was a brilliant tactical play. (Definitely agree on running the priest in Medina and using him to pop a Great Prophet, which we'll get in about 10 turns).

Crossing fingers on getting Great Lighthouse in Medina... :D

Amazingly, the blue dot location is STILL available, and we can re-found Baghdad there once we get peace! Let's hope that we can get peace once we discover Alphabet and Caesar suicides his current stack against Medina. :)
 
It might be an idea to grow Mecca to size 6 (as quickly as possible) and lash in a settler - this is also more efficient that training it the slow way. With luck that settler will make it to Blue Dot in time to (re)claim it.
 
Looking like some great turns there, nice work. Doesn't look like we're in danger of losing anything futher now. I suspect we're now too late for getting the Great Lighthouse, but that's no reason not to try. That's the real price we pay for the war, I guess. :(

In other news I'm going away until lateish on Tuesday, but I don't expect to be up before then, and will be able to play on Wednesday if I am.
 
Ok im going to need around 12 extra hours for this one. Ive been having a bit of trouble getting my wireless internet to work on this computer, but ive finally gotten it to work, ill have this played tonight.
 
Quack, you've already used up those extra 12 hours without posting anything. If I don't hear anything from you by tomorrow morning, I'm skipping your turns and moving to Compromise. No offense intended, but we have to keep the game progressing.
 
Qwack? Qwack?

Qwack Qwack Qwack?

Hmmm. I will play some turns today, and if I don't hear from Qwack soon, I'll start from Blake's save.

It looks like we're going to figure out how to write during the next turnset. After Alphabet, tech thoughts? Finish Monotheism if we want to found another religion, I guess. But perhaps a search for Iron is in order?
 
So...we're at war with Rome and we have no metals. No wonder Qwack wanted to skip this set of turns. So do I. Will I blow it? Will our fine culture be buried beneath the sands until the curious and wealthy of future generations care to cast us a glance? Will Rome acquire Iron and march through our fine cities? Baghdad already is a smoldering ruin having barely been founded. Will we avenge it?

Here is the story of another 250 years of Arabian culture....

Turn 0: 225BC (inherited)
Running at 100% research. Good. I'll try to keep up the binary science rate.
Mecca is 8 turns from growing and will have 2 happy faces in 2 turns. Let's switch from the mined hill to the cottaged grassland so we grow in 4 turns instead.
No difference in archer build time if we pull our citizen off the plains hill mine and stick him in the temple. Let's get another prophet ASAP.
Barracks due in Damascus in 1. Nice.
Najran growing painfully slowly. Need to whip up some venison.
Note that Monotheism is 4 turns away at 60/179 researched.
Summary: Some prep work before the storm.

Turn 1: 200BC
Roman stack converges SW of Medina. They will attack next turn. We're ready, though. Thank Allah...er...Confucius that my turn follows Blake's!
Barracks complete in Damascus. Start Confucian Temple to assist with the culture war.

Great Lighthouse is biafal!!! Well, it didn't take long to relieve that suspense. :(
Chariot completes in Mecca. 2 turns to Confucian Temple there.
Medic Chariot in NW China is confused. Decides to scout near Guangzhou.
Two more Roman axemen are marching toward Medina.
Basher (chariot) is pulled out of Damascus to the elephants near Mecca in case we need him.
Note that Bismarck's workers are pasturizing the cows near Damascus for us. Today, it's 62% German.
Summary: Gaahhh! No Lighthouse. And this on the eve of a great battle! Tis a bad omen, I say

Turn 2: 175BC Assault on Medina
The Roman stack attacks Medina. Our valiant archers defeat 2 axemen and a chariot before a Roman chariot defeats our leading archer. The last Roman troop--an archer--remains in the forest to protect the wounded (0.3 health) chariot. What are they feeding those horses that I'm not?
I promote our best Medina archer to City Garrison, health goes from 2.6 to 2.8 as he fortifies.
Worker near Damascus puts a turn into mining the other plains hill there.
Worker near Najran decides to built a road so we can drive by at night, shine spotlights at the deer, and kill them.:mischief:
Julius is willing to talk peace.

He is willing to give us 10 turns of peace for the Kong Miao and its wondrous city. Our reply is not suitable for young ears. From the screenshot, at least it appears we are giving Julius a headache.
We send the worker near Mecca toward the other grass hill near Mecca.
Our roaming Medic chariot deduces Iron near Guangzhou.
Despite all the weeping and gnashing of teeth, the people of Medina band together to train a Settler. An archer is dispatched from Damascus to help the defense of Medina, should they require it.
Summary: This war is going to take longer than I'd hope, but we express optimism by starting a Settler in Medina despite foreign troops right next to the city.

Turn 3: 150BC
Mecca completes a Confucian Temple and starts a Library.
Inexplicably, the Roman forces disperse themselves. Archer and chariot (now wounded Combat III) descend on our horse pasture. They are attacked by a raw chariot recruit at 86.5% odds (Sure death for the Arabian chariot in the hands of Compromise.) But lo! The war gods are please and we win 2 XP and drop to 0.8 health. Another newbie decides to try his hands at the wounded chariot before he can heal. The bastard has already pillaged our horse farm! At 95.7% odds, another of our chariots pulls off a surprising victory.
Our exploring Medic discovers the Chinese building a plantation on some dye near Shanghai.
Our chariots try to lure the axemen to plains or into an across-the-river attack on us.
Worker shift as the Damascus worker heads to the grass hills near Mecca and the Mecca worker heads north to rebuild the horse pasture.
Medina can whip a Settler for only 13 turns of unhappiness, and does so.
Note: Pasture near Hamburg is down to 60% German.
Summary: Hamburg is building us a pasture. The Chinese are way advanced. The Romans hate our roads.

Turn 4: 125BC
Roman Axemen head south; maybe he will try to attack us across the river. Bring it on!
Medina builds Settler, but it's too soon to move him yet. I notice our great whipping city has no granary! So, I start to build one while maximizing growth.
In one of the strangest moves ever made, the Settler takes off with an archer and a warrior and heads to old Baghdad's ruins! Folly or genius?! Only time will tell. (Most bets so far are on the former.)
Basher and Axesoaker await the Roman axemen's assault across the river. Backup chariots will mop up if needed.
On a more cultured note, we'll learn the Alphabet some time in the next 25 years.
Summary: Settlers gambit as the chariots pace across the river.


Turn 5: 100BC
What? No Roman assault? The axemen just sit there across the river. (Actually, they pillaged our roads ther.) A Roman chariot appears south of Hamburg to give trouble to Damascus. Fortunately, there are an archer and a chariot there with another archer due next turn.
We discover Alphabet and start on Monotheism.
We hold still across the river, still hoping to draw the axemen into the water.
Julius still wants Damascus for peace.

Summary: Our charioteers steel themselves in the face of the marauding axemen. Err...not steel...maybe they wooden themselves? Anyway, they want the axemen to attack them from across the river.

Turn 6: 75BC
The Romans cross the river. Basher is there, however, and wins while dropping to only 3.2/4.0
Our chariot takes on the Roman chariot near Damascus. An even-up Combat I vs. Combat I fight. 50% odds. We're due some luck and...We win! (We had backup in Damascus just in case.)
We position our chariots across the river again, fully expecting another road pillaging.
Summary: Basher made the river run red with an axeman's blood. We won a 50%-chance chariot-on-chariot battle! Wow.

Turn 7: 50BC
What? A Roman chariot and spearman (with City Raider I) near Damascus? How? Ah I see. He's coming through Hamburg! Another pair are there now. Groan. Still, I think we're okay in Damascus.
We prep for the attack(s).
Summary: Sneak attack under cover of Hamburgers. Good thing their cows will soon be ours.

Turn 8: 25BC
Chariot attack in Damascus kills our archer. What were the odds of that?
Axesoaker comes around the river and attacks the marauding axeman at 60+% odds. And loses. Groan. Another chariot sweeps in and wins at 99.9% odds. Thank god.
We need peace with Julius NOW! I offer him Polytheism and a 10 turn reprieve from our wrath. He accepts!
Now, we're a bit free to re-settle. Then, maybe we'll have some time to regroup before the next AI decides to pick on us.
Monotheism is in, so we can pop Christianity when we get a prophet.
I've started IronWorking to see if we have any chance at a credible defense.

Kufah is founded on the ruins of Baghdad. Confucianism has spread on its own to Najran, so we should be founding Christianity in Kufah.
Note: There is a Roman Galley with an archer and a Settler up near Medina. Probably need some fishing net defense before too long!
Worker moves toward farm rice near Kufah.
Summary: Knowledge of the theory of many gods, whom neither of us think are better than Confucius, brings a respite from Roman aggression. Also, we have rebuilt Kufah on the ruins of old-Baghdad.

Turn 9: 1AD
I negotiate Open Borders with Caesar. Maybe eventually we can get him to like us and turn his aggression on our more industrious neighbors.
Some redeployment of the troops.
Unassign Priest in Medina since we'll get a Prophet next turn regardless.
Delay the temple further in Damascus in favor of another archer.
Pray for peace from other civs!
Worker near Kufah decided to work on road through forest before farming the rice.
Summary: Our people try to suck up to Caesar so he'll hate someone else worse than us next time he's antsy to attack.

Turn 10: 25AD
Zoroaster is born in Medina. Gahh! He can only lightbulb Meditation!
Julius will give us Meditation for Monotheism. Probably a good idea, but I'll hold off and let our collective mind confer.
Summary: We are Prophet-able :rolleyes: again.
 
well sorry. Not to make excuses or anything but im still having trouble with my wireless. I probably should have played them when it was working for like a hour.

I might need another skip if this gets back to me fast and I havent gotten it fixed. Ill post something though if thats the case.
 
No worries, Qwack. I couldn't've run any turns before now anyway.

On the game: I hope I didn't screw us over, but in the spirit of the attempt at culture, I concentrated a bit on refounding near the rice and getting set up to nab Christianity with a Prophet.

I think we're set to do that. Confucianism spread on its own to Najran down south, so I think we're guaranteed to found Christianity in Kufah (formerly Baghdad) if we want. Julius will give us a decent trade: Meditation for our Monotheism. Probably a good idea since it might boost relations further. I think we can found Christianity this turn unless I'm mistaken about what the Prophet will pop. (But will he pop Priesthood next? I just assumed Theology would be priority 10.)

We need military desperately. I was a bit negligent because I saw a chance to advance our cultural cause. But chariots and archers are rather difficult to maneuver in the face of chariots, axemen and spearmen. I noticed that Bismarck has axemen too.

Unhappiness should be winding down in Medina. Watch our for those Roman galleys (at least two) up there and our vulnerable fishing nets.

We may even want to switch religions to boost relations with Bismarck while we rebuild our defenses. I'm not sure.

Also, I didn't switch to Organized Religion upon discovering Monotheism. Might be a good idea, especially after we finish building some defense.

Our Demographics are terrible.
 
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