RBC13D - Middle Ages - Kievan Rus (Demigod)

Thinking of global strategy. IMHO, we have 4 armies which should go for the king hunt. They move to king cities trying to avoid combat on the road. This would give us less VP and would not jeopardize the armies because when they become yellow, AI is attacking them. First to go are Magyars, then may be Germany and Burgundy (if they survive) followed by Poland. The core would be meanwhile defended by zerks which would be doing fine until knights arrive. Fixing culture on the border might help with that. If it took us about 10K VP to get 4 armies, another 4 should take about 6-7K VP since we have Norse Sagas. Conquest of king cities with armies might yield about at least 800 VP/civ, making another 10K roughly. Still some VP to spare (35K minus 10K we have minus 12K for king hunt minus 7K for core defense equals about 5K surplus). To minimize risk of losing the armies, they may be healed when yellow or covered by another fully healed army on the way. Therefore, SOD of armies might be the best choice. Later on, it is quite possible to get HRE and load 4th unit for defense like Swiss mercenary in one army to cover up for all armies in SOD. Or get a cataphract army and use it to protect SOD of armies. It would be slow but we have some time. Other civs, including Byzantines, Abassids, Fatimids, Cordovans, Castile, Franks, English, and vikings are better to reach by sea with longships in same sequence as indicated. However, in case of Abassids, there would be a long march to Baghdad where they should have the third king. Vikings are dangerous foes on one hand, but not so on the closer look. Zerks are rather expensive and they apparently cannot build huge numbers of them. And amphibious 1-turn elimination is possible in their case provided we get enough ships and units to load. In the core, we need more towns to decrease army upkeep and to get army support. Build may be very tight close to ICS for defensive purposes and to decrease corruption in other productive cities avoiding domination as well.

Re alliances. We are not some weaklings and can certainly survive a modest dogpile now (not in the north though especially from Sweden. Let them come to Rus for there they will find their death and become slaves. The more units come to us, the less would be the time of leader generation and the faster we can launch the armies to hunt the kings. Since Theo is not cooperating, it might be necessary to discover Heavy cavalry by ourselves and extort some techs from other remote civs for peace or alliances. Building some colonies for Byzantine and Abassid luxuries would make the economy more healthy though these would have to be heavily guarded against barbarians.
 
I was just about to look over the game and come up with a plan, so your post is well time. I see my initial thoughts are similar to yours - not just one army but a stack on the king hunt, with the top one remaining at or very near full hp. If we can clear out a buffer zone around us, then it would take more turns for any given civ to reach us that it would take for our zerk armies to reach their core and wipe them out. :hammer:

As you say we can leader fish near home - any other troops couldn't keep up with the armies. I have no idea of the cash situation, but a heavy cav steal seems an option too. And yes, we definitely need several more closely built cities.

Charis
 
I promised a list of the Starting Cities for each King for each of the playable civs, and I'm listing them
here rather than the general thread in case others don't want to see it or consider it spoilerish.

Kings Starting Locations for Middle Ages Scenario

Vikings
Danes: Lund(Olaf), Ribe(Canute), Hedeby(Magnus)
Norway: Trondheim(Harald Hardrada), Borre(MagnusBarelegs), Stavanger(Eric Bloodaxe)
Swedes: Sigtuna(Erik X Knutsson), Skara(Olaf), Kopingsvig(Bjorn)
Rus: Kiev(Vladimir), Vitebsk(Mstislav), Novgorod(Oleg the Wise)

Muslims
Abbasids: Jerusalem(Abu), Damascus(Mamun), Baghdad(Eissa al-Noushari)
Turks: Ghuzz(Urkhan), Khazar(Malek Shah), Patzinak(Murad)
Cordova: Cordova(al-Hakam), Cadiz(al-Muzaffar), Lisbon(al-Mundhir)
Fatamids: Tripoli(al-Mustansir), Tunis(Abdulah al-Mahdi), Oran(Ma'ad al-Mustansir)

Christian
Franks: Paris(Joan d'Arc/Crown of Thorns), Bordeaux(Eleanor Aquitaine), Orleans(Charles Bald)
Germans: Strasbourg(Henry), Regensburg(Berthold/Splinter of True Cross), Naumburg(Conrad Red)
Burgundy: Aix-la-Chapelle(Rudolf), Dorestad(Philip), Venice(Enric Dondolo) (Rome:Shroud of Turin)
England: Longdon(John), Repton(Edward), Chippenham(Matilda/Holy Grail/Alfred-the-Great Army)

Byzantines and non-Playing civs
Byzantines: Constantinople(Theodora), Ancyra(Basil), Athends(Alexius I Comnenus)
Magyars: Pest (cap), Belgorod.
Bulgars: Pliska (cap), Pitesi.
Poland: Poznan (cap), Gdansk.
Castille: Leon (cap), Salamanca.
Celts: Dalriada (cap), Dyfed.

BTW... In the editor I can only see the first 8 civs listed, ie, I can't see
Norway, Swedes, Turks, Fatamids, Burdungy or any other tribes at ALL?
I got the king locations by loading the games for the other 5 player civs.

Charis
 
I'm halfway thru, and have a question for the team. It particularly impacts our next leader, Jabah. I've set about the plan of the king hunt and the king of Belgorod is no more. 'Real' foes at this stage are Magyars and Bulgars. The former are gassed, will give two useless cities for peace, the latter will give peace for free, and I've seen almost no units, until just now. A stack of about two dozen swords is going to step next to Balabalator (sp?). The options I was tossing about are as follows - and I wanted to see which was prefered in the light of this "incoming". First I'll mention that I think I can get about one 7 pt army and 6 zerks on hand to intercept the stack. That very movement may cause them to change targets, giving time for a second army and two more zerks to arrive. Anyway...

option 1 - Take peace with Bulgars, press on vs Magyars pretty much with just the Army SOD. Alas, it will take about 9 turns to reach the king city of Pest.
option 2 - The original plan, was - after killing Magyar king at Belgorod, take peace including a city or two, then hit the Bulgar capital of Pliska just 3 turns away, swing NW to their second king city, Pitesi. It's conventiently not far away from Pest, so after wiping out the Bulgars, rest up a turn or two, and the 20 is up, so hit Pest and wipe out the Magyars. It's efficient in terms of the paths the SOD has to take.
option 3 - pull back the armies and mow down these Bulgars with a vengence. Then heal up and neither Maggies or Bulgies should have anything left to throw at our core while the armies go march on those three cities. This one slows down the time to kill them by about 5 turns. I'm not sure we have enough to repel the Bulgars, or if they have more coming behind this front wave.
(option 4 is a combo of 3 and 2 where I pull back ONE army from the SOD for extra homeland defense and to repel the attack, while the other 3 press on to the Bulgar capital after a heal round)

Opt 1 would see Jabah's turn ending up close to the destruction of Magyars, and another ~15 turns for next leaders to finish Pest and to retrace steps and kill Bulgars.
Opt 2, if it worked, would see Pliska down or about to go down, and Jabah's turn would be right around the end of Bulgar's existence. The next player would need 5 turns to kill Pest.
Of course, it could turn south and see our core get runover :P
Opt 3 would see the Bulgars get repelled during end of my turn,
and Jabah needing to decide to proceed after Mags, Bulgs, or both. They would probably both be gone the end of the following players turn. (All these are 'if things don't go horribly)
Middle of Jabah's turn will see Cataphracts online.

Here's a map of the situation:

RBC13D-RusKingHunt1125AD.jpg


The red dot is the ruins of king 1 of Magyars, and location of
4 armies. The red circle is Pest, the other Magyar king (unless he's moved). The two green circles are the Bulgar initial king locations, not far from Army. The blue path fights Bulgars first, Magyars second in the most direct line. The pink lines show the route if we take (or are forced to take) peace with Bulgars first. The yellow lasso shows the Bulgar invasion force (or gasp, just the front edge of such a force). The yellow arrows show how our armies could get back to defend, but they need a healing turn badly.

Tis a most interesting strategic question. Thoughts? :D
Charis

-- EDIT - part 1 of turn report is here:

The power of the Rus empire has increased greatly since last time. Best of all the
Turkish blight has been eliminated from the earth, along with the Celts.
It has been moved and second by the parliament that the armies of our realm should
sally forth to Realms Beyond ( :D ) and there meet and lay waste to the castles of
Kings. More specifically, Magyars have been suggested, followed by Germany and Burgundy
then Poland. Better by sea are: Byzantines, Abassids, Fatimids, Cordovans, Castile, Franks,
English, and vikings, roughly in that order. Our other key objective - get Heavy Cav for
Cataphracts.

Ok, that's initial thoughts before opening the save file. I do that and...
OMG it's like a convention in our homeland! Look at the HORDES of Poles around!
Thank goodness it's spears and archers, sheesh! We're at war with *seven* nations.
Important safety tip: these dogpiles must stop!! Not that we will be hurt (we may,
we may not) but because we just can't afford the VP bloodbath. We basically want to
be at war with just ONE civ at a time, the one whose kings are all scheduled to die
in the next 20 turns. The present list includes: Germans, Franks, Danes, Cordovans,
Norwegians, Magyars, and Bulgars. Any ONE of them could buy in 2-3 more in the blink
of an eye. Will any even talk peace? France and Magyars (free), Danes (insulted),
Burgundy has only 2 cities left, one king. Danes will loosen up their stance after
I capture Aarhus! We're not even at war with Poland... wth are they going? They could be
brought into about 2-3 alliances for the Medieval Combat tech, if we need. Our econ is
231g+14gpt, and on tech: Polearms are known by a few, but too $$. That's it, except for
HCav. 614g would give a chance to steal it, but lowest chance. Oops, we're going to
self-research it within about 12 turns, excellent.

Where are the Magyar and Bulgar kings, anyway? From other games I see:
Magyars in their capital, Pest and in Belgorod. Bulgars in Pliska (cap) and Pitesi.
I would love to take longer to do this, but... just to MOVE to and kill those
four cities alone will take about 30 turns, so we must get going. Also, it's
a convenient path to hit Belogorog, Pliska, Pitesi then Pest - otherwise we double back.
This puts us at definite war with Bulgars for 20 turns, and since having Poland pulled
into alliance against us would be utter disaster (even if all they did was pillage),
I sign them up. Besides, if Poland is next, why not weaken them and clear them out
of our lands now!? Actually, that's one enemy too many. We can kill the Magyar king
at Bolgorod, then take peace, followed by sacking of Pliska and march to Pitesti.
With time for healing, we will then be on the Magyar border south of Pest just about
20 turns after the peace. If we can get the 'back row' Magyar cities in the peace deal,
the better, to get more support for armies. I'll keep one army in the rear/North for now
to punish the Danes, watch them, and general homeland defense. Hopefully we'll get another
elite soon to send another army against Bulgars. What are the backward Magyar cities?
Nagykanizsa+, Eger, Oroshaza, Sopron, Siofok, Kecskemet*, Veszprem, Vacs*, Pecs*.
(Good ones '*') We could get four cheap ones even now, but we're not ready for that yet.
If for some reasons the Bulgars are extremely buff, plan B will be press on vs Magyars.

Plan: We need to become serial regicidists. That means peace with all but one, and
a healthy army SoD going after that one. The breather will also help us with
infrastructure, a few more settlers, and getting a few more zerks and boats.
 
Jabah apparently asked for a week off, so that would be Grimjack's turns.

IMHO, we need more leaders, so Bulgar's swords are very wellcome. Unless there are very many horsemen, zerks can handle the swords at ratio 1:1 of 1:1.5 at a time very well especially when enforced with a green army. Just need to combine them in a city with rax so that they can heal. Magyar and French SODs of similar size were handled rather well. They are reluctant to attack the city unless army is yellow. They just move on and get slaughtered on the way. Some units may get through even to Kiev and pillage some roads but this is a minor damage. It is more easy when attackers come in waves of SODs of up to 8-12 units with spears. From the picture that you showed, looks like waves. The king hunting armies can heal for a turn or two, then move to get rid of Bulgars through Pliska and Pitesi and then to Pest. But hard to tell. It is indeed a tough call. Looks very scary even though it is only Demigod. Well, nobody told the plan is easy. May be try to get alliance with Theo against Bulgars for some distraction.

Edited: No peace to Magyars of Bulgars IMHO, kill them all with zerks and get more armies.
 
In an assassination, bloodshed is neither necessary or wanted. Go after the other nations in as fast and efficient manner as possible.

Using the least number of turns, take them out. ( Is that option 2 ? )

I do not really care if we have always war or not, but avoiding bloodshed is a priority, as killing units rack up VPs quite fast, especially once they start sending advanced units against us.

Grimjack
 
Went with something between options 2 and 3... herein lies the tale... (see above post
for part A of this post actually, this below was too long :P )

[0] 1107 - Build queue looks great. Norse Sage city is rather undefended, and will
need beefing up, but it had to be built in a coastal city (Uskudar). Suzdal gets MM
to finish the zerk in 2 not 3, but else is good.

I pull the trigger on buying in Poles vs Bulgars, and have to throw in horses for it.
I include an RoP to get them out of our land quicker.

IBT - Poles jumble around and are seeming to head... North?! Dane warr loses to warr.
Germany finishes Domesday Book. England swaps to Tapestry.

[1] 1110 - I like this new saga! Three elite attacks and the third one, on a German
settler pair, yields an leader! He awaits two more cities to found an army.
Peace with France, she pays almost 60g. IBT - Magyar sword beats zerk.

[2] 1113 - Perevaslavl is founded. That's enough cities for another zerk army.
We build it and fill it. One spear killed at Aarhus. Troops move into position.
Cordovans will pay 23g for peace, ok. IBT - Byz and Burgundy come to peace.
In good news, Byz declared war on Abbasids! :eek: This is world war I! Alas, their
VP total will skyrocket if that's a real war.

[3] 1116 - Tmutorokan is founded. We capture Aarhus of the Danes defended by two spears.
We call for peace with Danes, though it costs us still a few gpt - for Norway was
on our northernmost, and allied with the Danes was too insulted to talk. Now that
Danes are clear, they'll take peace for free, in fact, will pay us WM+20g.
Must be a cascade, now Germany will talk, and will pay WM+5g for peace. Excellent,
we are now ONLY at war with those we want to be, Bulgars and Magyars, and I'm letting
them slide in a few turns after I raze their king city. We capture Pecs.
IBT - Beat two swords but lost a horse on defense. Cordoba joins Byz vs Abbys,
so does Norway.

[4] 1119 - Hmm, more worker turns lost?? Bah, in the preferences, please do
*TURN OFF "Cancel Orders for Friendly Unit" About a dozen worker turns just lost.

Belgorod takes hvy casualties, 4 spears, but still spear on top. We're doing piddling
around with them, two MORE armies move up, a total of four next to their city!
IBT - Bulgars offer peace, straight up? Hmmm... it's tempting to press on vs Magyars
instead, and I might still do that, but I'll look at situation on my turn.
(Wow though, he'll give a small city) IBT - Burgundy and Cordova come to peace.
Norway moves some units up next to Novgorod. Ruh roh... heading TOWARD someone, or
is this trouble? There is SO much troop movement and warfare it's impossible to tell.

[5] 1122 - The unhappiness in our land is extreme. I get Castillian wines from the
backward country for early siegecraft. Vezprem goes down! If they had not sent an
archer our way from there they could have been ignored, but no... rax intact.
At Belgorod, spear and sword are killed, revealing the king! The city can't
really be kept, and is razed. Our armies will have to heal next round though.

Ok, one Magyar king dead, the Magyars pretty gassed, and their second king is about
10 turns away if we're not distracted, through the heartland of the Bulgars. If
we turn on the Bulgars instead, their capital is so close we'll hit it on 3rd turn.
What could we get for Magyar peace? Just two cities. If they had masses on our doorstep
it would be one thing, but if they passively sit by, why take peace now? Likewise if
the Bulgars pull a dozen swords out of the woods around Kiev we'll chat but for now
I'm planning to torch their capital. IBT - You want the good news first, or the bad
news? Good news is that the Norway mini-SOD kept right on moving. They're heading SE.
The bad news... remember that fear about a green SOD moving out of the fog. Yup.
19 swords, 6 spears, 4 archers. Thankfully not Kiev, but Balatonboglar. They'll be
next to it next turn. We just plain have too few units. With 19 zerks in that city
it would be a slaughter. If the armies were fresh they could just reach the city
in time to defend it, then counter next turn. The best two are 9hp and 8hp. Would
the AI choose not to attack them AT ALL, or would it realize it could wipe two out?
That retreat also distracts our armies from king killing. What DO we have on hand?
The North army is in range, with time to heal. Also six zerks can reach in time.

At this point, fighting the incoming waves for leader generation seems best along
with no delay in killing the kings. It was time for bed anyway, so I posted the map
and question to the team, and that seemed the consensus too. If (but only if) the
Bulgar waves is too crushing, we'll take peace and wipe out Magyars. But I think if
we have a green army defending they may stay on the road.

So that I don't have to cave to Bulgars next round, I do pull one army back to
defend but the other three stay in place and heal. I can't afford to wait much more
for Bursa's blacksmith (what an odd choice for a small corrupt city, btw), so it's
rushed with 9 turns to go. Next up will be a quick town hall. Hmm, right next to the
stack is a sword-settler. If I let it live we won't be in neutral territory to heal.
One hurt army kills it then pulls back away from harm. The second hurt one kills a
spear, pillages, and moves to same place.
IBT - Wow, that's a lot of units moving up. They come in three squares, not one big
stack. The rampaging French have wiped out the Burgundians. Well, that's one more
civ down! :P

[7] 1128 - Eight swords killed in front of Balantonboglar. We took more dmg that I thought
and got one promotion, but no ldrs. It rushes its rax. A green army kills two and covers
the city with its fearsome presence. One spear also killed there. The returning
army, also green, enters the city and kills another sword.
IBT - Well, I didn't want them to attack the city, and indeed they did not, but
they did the next scariest thing, moved right next to Pereyaslavl, undefended.
13 units, more than we can kill, so an army will have to go over and hold it.

[8] 1131 - Still next to Batatonboglar are five swords.
With Heavy cav due in 4, I start a few horses, hoping for a quick upgrade and (if an MGL)
a Cataphract army. There are 11 Magyar swords now that have shown up right near where
the 'intermediate' armies were healing. They'll need to pull back to rax town.
Crud, lost a near-full health elite zerk at Balaton, but rng corrected itself by
coming up with Svyatoslav the next attack. We have 24 cities and *CAN* make an army.
Since we can not support any more, I leave him *EMPTY* to be filled with Cataphracts.
He's in Suzdal for now. We're able to shift the Balon army out of the city next to
the front SOD and with his cover kill four swords next to Pere.
Bursa's town hall it part rushed, to get this to be a contributing town quicker.
IBT - To my horror the Bulgar stack gets bold and attacks Pere anyway! The initially
10 hp army is fortunately able to hold off 4-5 attackers, and the city and army
hold. Are they getting smart, lucky, or simply more brazen. Be careful about letting
an army surrounded by several units even get as low as 10hp though. They could have
pressed south instead to poorly defended Pecs. In fact, that's what the 12 Magyars
swords are doing. The healing army went there where a rax was rushed though, so he'll
be full next turn. One other Bulgar pillages, and two spears move next to Suzdal.
But the stack is almost dissipated.

[9] 1134 - Our zerks and armies wipe out the Magyars around Batalon, there is not one of
that front wave left standing. An army heads over to Pecs to hold out. I hope they
move instead of attack. IBT - They move!

[10] 1137 - Two turns to hvy cav, and it should take these two turns to slaughter the
loose units, so for a much cleaner hand off and a good discussion point, I'm going to
do those two turns. Tech wise, it's been a while, but Abbasids and Byz have Divine
Right, as do France. Danes lack DivRight, have Polearms. Most others have neither
and are too broke to pay. It's an insult to even think of buying Divine Right, so
no two-fers here. Two elite horses attack hurt spears. One retreats, the second
brings home "Yaropolk of the Deadly Hooves" :P Our next leader's agenda now includes
four more cities!

The smack down at Pecs is serious! Almost a dozen Magyar and Bulgar units lie dead
the the feet of our berzerkers (and new hooves - Kiev is 30spt after that settler
he kicked out first round :P )

Our Pliska army finds out there is a catapult there and with a city founded east of
him realizes he is hopelessly alone. Ok, he never should have continued alone in the
first place. I thought the other two armies would be 1-2 turns behind, not in the
middle of a huge bloodbath! He returns to meet up with the other armies.

IBT - No counterattacks. Bulgars and Poles come to peace. Useless Poles.
There are *far* fewer now crossing our territory. Sweden completes Tapestry.

[11] 1140 - The poles are now cautious not gracious, as the RoP was included in the
alliance, so they've broken the RoP. IBT - No counters, small stacks move forward
toward the killing zone. HC comes in, must choose something new to research.
Franks are building Robin Hood, so they've got their first sheriff's office built.

[12] 1143 - Research is a tough choice. If we need anything, we need it in less than
40, and we can only spare one scientist. Defender of Europe (last in Byz tree) would
give Battlefield Med wonder, but expensive shields and not a great value. I start on
Middle Class min-sci, but it just started, so choose whatever you like instead.
On a lark, btw, I tried scrollahead to upgrade the horse to cataphract, and it worked
giving it a movement this turn, allowing the start of the army. Alas, wow, 120g per
upgrade. After the first one we're not only near 0 gold, but we have major income
problems.

With the need for cities and the Pecs delay, and army captures Szombathely, and a hurt
horses moves in to defend. Consider strong sending 1-2 zerks over that hill to also
capture Stara Zagora for another easy city (although tis size 1 right now)
The last defending spear almost went down in history as an uber spear, knocking off 6
pts from the army.

Ok, everything is cleaned up, armies are sitting about to heal, and the handoff and
situation are clean. The timing is also such now that Grimjack should either be right
at or just done with killing Pitesi and wiping out the Bulgars at the end of his turn.
(If it looks like you're a turn short in fact, press on and finish them. Even two,
but not past that.) Rock on, Grimjack!

Notes to next ldr (Grimjack):
- West of Balaton frontline city, in the tiny BG grass fog spot 3 SW of the city
is a stack of 6-7 Magyars. It had a hurt green spear on it that the Cataphract killed
and promoted on.
- Do wait for more cataphracts before using the army, we would hate to lose it.
- There's one unmoved zerk, and the two unmoved armies are fortified planning to heal.
- You are all set now to go king hunting in earnest, after 1-2 rounds of healing.
The units the green and yellow are sending are now EASILY faced by the zerks we have
on hand, which now total about 10 in the area. The unmoved zerk can hang, return to
Balaton, or go down to capture Stara Zagora.
- Send at least FOUR zerk armies west, to Pliska, then Pitesi, then finally Pest.
BE NOT DISTRACTED neither right nor left in thy killing. Strive greatly to keep one
army at full or near full strength and they should totally ignore you. There are two
other armies- the fast one waiting two more, and the red zerk army just SE of others.
You might keep them back, and when a third army is filled, send that trio on a separate
king hunt??!
- Kiev has a Cataphract due in 2, Pskov in 3. Two towns are working on settlers so we can
let our idle MGL make another army of CP's.
- Our biggest problem right now is the economy. We're at 52g, -18gpt. That's not QUITE
as bad as it looks, as I sold maps around for 15g this turn. You may have to do that
frequently unless you have some other cash trick up your sleave :P
- Choose a new tech. I just noticed Byz have Defender of Europe and Intel Ops.
- There is a zerk right next to Vacs, and one more next to him to take that Magyar city.
It's a newish city that recently sent out and lost a spear and archer and so has two
spears in it at most, one if we're lucky. An archer up north near Nagykanizsa just
killed an archer and is healing. He's toying with idea of attacking the city.
- Fight up coming miniSODs in OUR territory not theirs! By doing so I've kept zerk
losses to a bare minimum this turn, despite killing DOZENS of other units.
- Ignore any French, Polish, Swede or Dane units moving in our lands. Do NOT try to boot.
- PLEASE don't get into any new wars if at all possible!!! If someone demands 16g,
give it cheerfully and "add them to the list". It's taken this whole reign to get out
of a dogpile and to gas two civs, we just don't need any other grief besides the
nations whose kings we're hunting. But Grimjack knows that, he's a bounty hunter! :P
- What is the VP situation? Good question, I've avoided looking! :P
We have 14390, Byz have 8540, France 7230, Abbasids 6520, Sweden 4650. We are clearly
our own worst enemy as far as VP limit before conquest is concerned! Fighting two
nearest neighbors simultaneously and fishing we had no choice, but we really need to
move to assassin mode now. (Start of my turn, we had 9700 and Byz 5000).

It's rough, to be sure, but looking up!

A new look at the terrain...

RBC13D-RusKingHunt1143AD.jpg


Charis
Jabah <-- UP
Grimjack <-- on deck
Akots

RBC13D Rus 1143AD

Good luck! :hammer:
Charis
 
Looks great! We have 6 armies total and one leader, almost enough. IMHO 2 more would not hurt. To decrease VP accumulation, it might be better not to attack/capture/raze AI cities other than containing kings. We can build some settlers ourselves without getting VP and decreasing production by joining workers. And build small cities hiring tax collectors and producing wealth just like in FoR Roman/Byzantine games for total +4-5gpt/city. Only defend the core and hunt the king units. Batlefield medicine is extremely useful and we can rush it with MGL since it is a small wonder. Researching it may be a high priority even with a single scientist at 40 turns.

Edited: Cancel Orders for Friendly Units is my fault. I turn it on/off from time to time. Just left it on "on", sorry.
 
We need the markets / sheriff offices to get economy up.
As we are likely to eliminate any AI we are at war with, the traditional pointy stick option is not likely to work well.

I will see what I can do though. Perhaps a little punishment meted out to the Poles if they have a tech or two we want. Then reselling that tech to one of the rich ones.

Or maybe even on the Byzantines. They are a useful distraction on the Abbasids right now though.

Got it.

Grimjack
 
Indeed, markets and sheriffs would be most excellent, but at least we have CP's to build until then. We'll still need lots more berzerks, and ~4 more longboats, to fill up for our amphib campaigns.

I'm afraid there can be NO pointy stick research! We're already at 50% of the VP limit. Be assured any combat enough to get a tech vs a civ with a tech up on the rest would be lethal. Instead... keep an eye out for an advanced civ 'going down', where its power gets below ours. You can then renegotiate peace and get peace at discount. The more you're ahead in the power curve the more of a discount you'll get. The further behind you are, the more you must pay for peace. (Which is why some of our peace deals have been expensive even though they did us no dmg, and why some civs paid US for peace even when we didn't scratch them)

Beware the Poles, btw, do not treat them lightly. It's possible they've been gassed in a war with a power, but... you really had to see the *swarms* of troops they were moving around our lands on my turn. I mean like four dozen spears and archers. Perhaps they're missing iron. If/when we go to war with them it must be when both Magyars and Bulgars are DEAD and gone, and when our armies are healed and on the border closest to their king cities - Poznan and Gdansk.

We may or not get to choose the time of the war vs Constantinople. Again don't let them dictate that over a 16g tribute demand. Their king cities are Constantinople, Ancyra and Athens. If they did NOT have Dromons, we could declare war, and on about turn 7-8 when they could talk peace, capture both Nicaea and move through and take Constaninople then take peace *right away* - that would be the only pointy stick option - a very low casualty single king kill with a civ before they could bring their troops to bear on us. The downside with a civ as powerful as Byz is that they could (and would!) probably ally about 3-4 civs against us, and as we would want instant peace, not a 20yr episode, we would not be able to ally, unless convinced we could knock them out of the game before a stack of two dozen CP's reached our core. It's too bad the Byz cities are so far apart (iirc, I"m not looking at map). Taking all six armies and marching on their kings for a lethal knockout would work *if and only if* they didn't hammer us to ribbons back home. If we went this route, we would follow up by an all-six army march on the mighty Abbasid empire, again totally ignoring all opposition except the king cities of Jerusalem, Damascus, Baghdad.

The advantage of going after Byz / Abb next is that: i)we can hit them while they're gassed on each other, ii) they are VP leaders and if we wait too long we might not be able to stop them, iii) we don't want to face swarms of Assassins and/or professional army defenders, so hit the hardest folks now, iv) we need neither more tech nor more than 5-6 armies to wipe them out, so waiting doesn't help. iv) with the Turks, Byz and Abbassids gone we have no 'back door' front to worry about and can then sweep across Europe. v) If we sweep Europe first we won't even be able to *reach* the Byz and Abba kings before the game is over.

Well that's a big discussion on what might happen 20+ turns from now. :P

@akots - np on the Cancel Orders. I've almost never noticed it myself, and then in the course of these RBC13 series of games, I've been burned by it 3-4 times now, and want to get the message out :D
> IMHO 2 more would not hurt
Yes indeed, we would love 2 stacks of 3-4 armies on independent king hunts, 1-2 for homeland defense, and an armada of 4+ longboats and 16+ zerks.

Good luck - and focus on the Green machine for now!
Charis
 
I like the plan. Armies march and try to catch up with longships or may be loaded on them also. But we must keep an eye on Franks. They are getting extremely powerful. With Abbasids gone there might be also a problem of keeping Jerusalem VP obelisk from other civs. But may be it is not so dangerous.
 
Just a status update.

After six turns, one of the Bulgar kings is dead, we have maintained city integrity. Other developments elsewhere remains interesting, and France is on the rampage.
Byzantine and Abbasids remain the Power chart giants though.

I expect to be done this evening. Turns tend to take a long time, as I cannot resist grinfing every single gold out of MMing our cities.

Economy is picking up, but it is tempered by a 20 gpt 'tax' from various civs demanding 'charity' contributions.

Grimjack
 
And it is time again for the bounty to be collected. Targets this time would be Bulgars and Magyars who have not pleased my masters.

The local year is counted as 1143, and the world is in flames. Most every nation is at war with someone else, and Vps are racking up, so I really like the plan to hit Byz and Abbasids after we deal with the green machine and the orange nuisance.

The Poles have been hammered pretty badly by the Franks, who now owns Gdanks, Krakow and Krakow, leaving Poznan isolated. Yup, two Krakows next to each other. Weird.

I also need to get a better economy. This can be accomplished by being able to lower lux taxes, if we pay less for the luxes than we now pay for lux tax. We could get more cities at size 7, so we don't have to pay as much upkeep, and we could get more cities.
What we cannot get is a tech/building to increase income in the cities we do have.

And unless we can do surgical strikes on a king city or two, for peace afterwards, we wont get a tech. ( Like take out an english city or two, and then a fast peace for techs, while handling some other nations. )

I will spend time with the more imemdiate concerns of Bulgar and Magyars now though.

I spend a ridiculous amount of time going through options for all our cities, and in the end I manage to scrape together another 3 gpt.

IBT: Some troop movement, but no stacks seen. Bursa completes townhall, and starts a settler. ( Settlers give us new cities without the VP penalty we get from capturing them. )
Vladimir gets temple, and goes to Blacksmith. I know it is size 2, but it will grow into size 5-6 before smith is completed, and can help with Aqueducts.

1146 Our zerk capture vacs, destroying the rax during the attack. Thats another three gpt. :)
The bulgars have blocked the way to Pliska with a swordsman and a Medieval. I take out the swordsman, as that gives less VPs, and hope I do nto have to take out the medieval at all.
Our troops grumble as I order a retreat near Balatonga, they wanted to strike at the four swordsmen that had adavnced. I am firm however, wait until we can strike inside our own borders.
I change my mind on the retreat order, as I misclick and send a zerk and cat right up to the sword stack. Combat it is.
We have a leader, so promotion fishing it is.
I switch Smolensk to settler. Just saw a great first ring spot for a city. It gets a taxman to make up for the abysmal 9 spt it has.
We now have four cities on settler, and none of the cities are dedicated settler factories, so I think that is alright.
Those ministrations and some natural growth has pushed us to -6 gpt. Armies has seen no action, as I was heling them for a prolonged campaign.

IBT: No movements of note. We get a pair of Heavy Cavs, and can finally start to use the fast army as well.

1149 Starting to move armies. Not much else happening. Income back down to -8 gpt, most likely due to new troops being built.

IBT: Byzantines and Abbasids sign peace. France drops of a crusader at our northernmost city, when they are at war with the Poles. WOnder what triggered that peculiar invasion tactic. Some payment ended, and we are at a positive income.

1152 I decide to split forces, as there are so many spread out green units on the roads in Bulgary, so I send a zerk army together with the cavalry army directly to Pest. I hope that will shorten the war a bit.

IBT: Cordovan forces destroy the Poles. One more bites the dust. I will see if I can prevail in the mad scramble and secure a lux. I know POles owned a fur spot in the far east.
Hmm, that peace didn't last long. Byzantine declare on the Abbasids.

1155 Start the siege of Pliska by killing the top two spears. I lost some 6 HPs from one of the armies. He will have to heal for a turn, unless special occasion arrives.
We are now at 18 gpt, and make an invisible additional 8-10 gpt from map sales. gold is at 66 only though.

IBT: Seems like Magyar are afraid to enter our territory, as they are skirting the edges. They do pillage one of our horsemen though. Good thing I didn't trade away our surplus horse.
Inge wants 21 gold. He is the most powerful AI with the possible exception of Byzantines, so I will gladly help fuel his economy.

1158 My greed costs us a horseman as he dies trying to liberate a settler pair. A second horseman finishes the job.
I kill another four spearmen at Pliska, and I am down to the regular spears now. The silly Swedes have blocked our road to the east using their Demi-God RoP to move their settler pair.

IBT: Suddenly we look like the world bank, as Theodora comes and asks for an interest free loan of 21 gp. Being a nice neighbour, we buy her spiel and give her the money. The Magyar manage to assemble another stack of swords. I believe it is about ten of them coming out of the forests near Kiev. I have trailed them with a coupel of zerks, and will let them enter our plains before striking.
Abbasids sign up Germans against Cordova.

1161 Pliska falls after some five additional units was killed. I am very tempted to keep this city, as it would be a great launching point against the Byzantines. I am afraid of a flip though, as it is under a huge cultural pressure from Byzantines, as well as deep withing Bulgar lands, so I raze it instead. I will worry about the workers keeping up later.
Belatedly I realize my mistake. I should of course have kept the city, built an army with our spare leader, and then abandoned the city. :( Hope next leader will think of niceties like that better than I do.

IBT: Our world map gets older and older, now Norway wants 12 gold for it. Germany and Abbasids sign an alliance against Norway. Germany also sign up Castile against Cordova, and thats another nation we likely wont have to kill by ourselves. In spite of carefully going through our cities every turn, I manage to get not one, but two riots, losing 6 shields and 10 gold. :whip:

1164 Magyar now has two stacks travelling around near our borders, but I will wait until they commit on a city before actually striking at them. A little sniping with heavy cavs will I allow though, but no zerks, as I do not want to have to defend in open country.
I capture another Magyar town on the edge of a coupel of furs, and I can now build another army. Yaropolk had waited a long time for this. He will of course be a cavalry army.

IBT: That could be interesting. Just as Germany starts to move troops southwest, Denmark declares on Germany. Germany comes and demands 22 gold. :angry:
We grant his request THIS time.

1167 Defeat the first Magyar stack. Leave a warrior and horse exposed down south to Bulgar attackers. Reinforcement is on its way though, if we cannot kill their king in time.
Settle another city, and have a settler going for the eastern furs. Start to detail workers to road to that fur as well.
I am getting short of MPs now, and I will have to let one of the three big build a couple of spears, until Murom finishes its Cavalry. Murom is an excellent spear builder after that.
Byzantines now own Middle class, but it seems our rep is toast now. We cannot pay gpt to her. Wonder how that happened. Hmpph, according to the F1 we pay 7 gpt to foreign powers. I cannot find the deal for this though.

(Hmm, you know you have been playing Civilization too much when the lightbulb goes out in the basement study, and you do not take the five minutes it would take to change the bulb, instead chosing to spend those minutes polishing up on your turn.... )

IBT: The Magyars pull some blindingly dumb moves with their remaining stack, and it is back inside their borders.
I set Pskov to pull a couple of spearmen to use as MPs. I think five or six should be enough. This will cost us two cavs, but I cannot see any other way to avoid the extra tax we pay to demanding civs by having empty cities.

1170 Siege of Pest does not have an auspicios start, as a monster spearman send our cav army spinning with 12 hits earned. It goes to hide under the reinforcing zerk army.
There is a 3fer available, via Middle class, but we need to wait one more turn, so that we can join the dogpile against the Cordovans. ( Castile and Germany amongst others. )
I am also not certain we have enough gpt to pull it off, as the nations lacking Middle class almost certainly do not have any gpt to pay us back.

IBT: Magyars are trying a new point of insetrion into our space. I will let him come out into the plains before trying to stop him. No need to risk losses and/or VPs just to stop some pillaging of a random tile.

1173 Our armies have pillaged their way towards the Bulgar remaining king, and now it is time to strike. ( I doubted it would be us that settled here, so I pillaged rather than give free improved tiles to opponents. )
The three armies that reached this city with movemetn left, killed three vet spears, but one of the armies had a runin with some bad mead in an inn they raided, and will have to recuperate next turn while the rest of the armies continue the siege.
OUr zerk army reaches the siege of Pest, and another spear is killed here, while the cav army follows it, so it is not exposed when so wounded. The swedes have stolen the Furs that was released from the POles :( Lots of wasted wandering turns by that settler. In time we will have that fur spot.
England is up Divine Right, Abbasids are up Polearms, Divine Right and Middle Class, Germany have Polearms and Divine Right, Denmark is up POlearms, and Divine Right. The nations only up one or two techs are broke, so any money we pay will be taken directly out of our coffers. I would prefer to save money for a steal in that case. Hopefully we can steal a monopoly tech somewhere down the road.
I will make another turn though, as I have an intense dislike of the green machine, and also would like to fulfill at least part of my contract.

IBT: I have hidden a lot of workers and a catapult in Byzantine space, as I tried to avoid green machines troops. Byzantine wants them out now.
Ouch, MM disaster as we lose our Castilian wines. How on earth could all three of their wines get cut ??, or were we the ones who was first on the list of those who was supposed to get nothing. I use scroll ahead to prevent several riots. Germans build Robin Hood.

1176 After killing the top 6 defenders of Pivetski, I see it defended by a worker, so I wirk our four HP army to strike, and the green machine is no more. It is expected the zerk armies will spend several turns celebrating this fact, before turning either against the Byzantines, or towards the Magyars. We also have a spare Cav army that could be used at either front.
Lose an elite horseman fishing against a regular sword. I will leave to next leader here.

Here is teh save

I have fortified the two armies outside Pest. You may want to send no more than one or two of the zerk armies to reinforce, or one zerk and the cav army. I suspect there are some 6-7 spearmen and one or two assorted others in the city.
You may want to rush the two longships I have started, and load up them with three zerk armies, or four zerks on each ship. four zerks would be more efficient.
The green SoD should be dealt with with some care. I have tried not to kill units in it, as we do not want VPs. We do need to kill as it closes to our cities though.
Cordovans have a dogpile against them, and it may be that you can wheal and deal for a good threefer, but that would take all our capital.
There is a lot of MM to do, but my window for playing is closed, and I would rather hand over now, than in some five more hours.
Either accept having a bunch of clowns, or trade for a lux, or increase lux taxes.

Grimjack
 
> Poles wiped out by the Cordobans
?! :eek: Wow, didn't expect that! So THAT'S where all the Pole units went.

Very nice job Grimjack! I'm glad you went and finished the green machine - it's now a good situation to handoff to Akots. It sounds like he's a handful of turns from wiping out the Magyars as soon as Pest is crushed. Quite a bummer about the lack of city capture-abandon - we could certainly use that extra army. Do we have a settler near ready? If not, is there a TINY town in the Pest area to capture for one round? That makes a better healing spot than foreign territory, although if they're in neutral space they'll heal quickly too.

> The green SoD should be dealt with with some care.
:confused: Green? You mean yellow? The green Bulgars are gone, leaving now the Magyars, but them only for a few turns.

Regarding the longboats, most definitely four zerks if they can hit from the sea -- four attackes instead of two, good offensive odds, and no counterattack fear. Besides, why risk an army to a lucky dromon shot? We'll want one EMPTY longboat that will serve as cover for those containing troops. BTW, we MUST capture not raze Nicaea or there is no path to Constantinople. Never mind holding it - just go straight thru and raze Constantinople. Then recapture Nicaea on the way out :P It's the other cities that will be tougher to get to and I imagine we'll want to use the armies on.

I doubt Akots will be able to pull the trigger on a Byz war, as there are a fair amount of logistics. Heal. Pest. Re-heal. Fill another army with +1 city. Rush 1-2 longboats. Fill them. Sail them into neutral space near target. Sounds like 10 turns right there. What to do about joining the Cordovan dogpile I don't know. As far as our rep I think we got out too early on two alliances, but don't sweat it - these guys have been treating us worse than dirt the whole scenario. If we *need* to buy something via GPT, we can - just bring them to the table by renegotiating peace. If our power is higher, we'll even get a discount that way, albeit small.

As long as no AI actually runs away on VP or power, this rabid fighting is working out ok, with a few key civs dying. Serial dogpile actually sounds very much in our favor. Sounds like France has the potential to become the new monster on the block? We'll need a Northern port at some point for operations like a landing of a few armies next to Paris, since it's not coastal and it's too far to walk :P

Charis <-- on deck
Jabah
Grimjack
Akots <-- UP

Good luck,
Charis
 
I looked at the save and would like to discuss the following points:

1) Our first ring of cities around Kiev is apparently settled. However, this greatly increased rank corruption in some remote cities which are overpopulated whereas the core cities are underpopulated. Therefore, it seems a good idea to switch these other cities from improvements to workers/settlers and keep them at minimal size with tax collectors because now they are not paying even for their own MP. Workers can join the core cities to increase their population and allow them to build occasional settlers.

2) There is no decent way to buy luxuries or broker techs. Our reputation is trashed at least in part. This is not good. Reputation is very important for this scenario. Any idea how it happened? Also, we are paying some gpt for peace with Danes? They should be paying us! I’ll renegotiate this first thing and try to get something out of it.

3) With immediate threat from the core gone, it might be worth to try to build more zerks instead of cataphract. Cataphracts are weak on offense and their main function is just to provide for some defense of a zerk stack. They can move, fortify and keep zerks alive. Otherwise, especially against pikes, this is a weak unit. And same goes for cataphract armies which can be mainly used for pillaging and cover up for the main SOD of zerk armies.

4) Assault on Theo can be started very soon. But we might want to get an intermediate peace with her to extort some techs in the process though she lacks Battlefield Medicine which is sad.

5) Thinking of what is next after Magyars, Germany looks like a splendid target. They would certainly try to settle in the Magyar lands and war may slow them down. They should not be allowed to grow stronger also. We can go on two fronts. Take all armies to Germany and strike Theo with amphibious zerks just to get Constantinople. They would then collapse to Abassids though. Thinking of Abassids, Baghdad can be taken out with cataphract armies (2 or 3) with Fatimid alliance as a distraction.

I will try to play part today and finish up tomorrow. However, game is getting very intense with +6hours for 10 turns and return of Jabbah would greatly ease the pain.
 
Take you time -- our game has no 'let up' in the combat, and it's going to get worse. Shortening the turns isn't best in terms of being in context and knowing what's going on, so taking a little extra time and not rushing seems fine.

Our rep is bad in part because of alliances left to early, and I think (?) due to a trade getting interrupted due to war. The first stain occured I think when Grimjack took peace with Germany during an alliance. Given it was already toast, I chose not to stay at psuedo-war with France for 18 turns who had already purchased a dogpile against us, to try to save our 'ally' Burgundy who was down to like 3 cities (a rather poor alliance imho - we wanted to get OUT of war with France, not prolong it)

I'm no fan of hurting our rep and do all I can to keep it unsullied. Once it's toast, I general treat the AI as their treating me, not exploiting a deal but not stretching to keep up phony ones. It doesn't kill our ability to buy though...
- If you're at war with someone you 'cheated', anyone else at war with you will overlook the offense and sell for gpt
- At the peace table gpt is an option again
- You can still buy lux or resources for gpt, or sell anything for gpt
- You just can't buy tech/ally/hard good for gpt away from the peace table
So I agree "Reputation is very important for this scenario" and didn't like to see it trashed, but it's done and we'll have to adjust :P

Paying the Danes for peace? That was me. The dogpile we were in was absurd, and I eliminated every phony war leaving only the real wars vs Magyar and Bulgars. It was rough enough as it was, I can't imagine having the Swedes brought in during the middle :P
I had to pay the Danes a few gpt because they were allied with the Norwegians (another downside of getting yourself in a dogpile). On the plus side once that alliance was toast, Norway paid US some hard cash for peace, as did a second civ. When Dane peace is due to expire check our relative power. If we're higher, activly renegotiate and get a deal or discount. If we're lower, ignore it and let him offer free peace on his turn. If it's close and he has a tech you want to buy for gpt, also renegotiate on your turn.

On the cataphracts vs Zerks, I agree. If we end up in a race against the clock with a far-away land civ we'll wish for one extra CP army, but yes, in general the zerks are better and can move like the wind in longboats.

The ONLY problem with Germany next is that France then becomes *really* scary! If you armies taking out Regensburg (sp?), why stop there - press to Paris and take out France too. We need to think in terms of pairs due to time and distance. Germany AND France, or Byz and Abbasids, I would think. If you think we can afford to split up and go after the four superpowers in the game, this will prove to be either the biggest piece of brilliance in the game or the biggest weed! :) Consider it carefully, I'm not sure myself w/o looking at map and VP numbers.

Good luck,
Charis
 
I did not mention this in my report, but I settled quite a few new cities, so I could build a second Cataphract army, and I suspect we may be just a city or two away from yet another army, but alas, we were not blessed by any new leaders during my reign.

I also pillaged roads on the way to the king cities, partly to slow down green reinforcements to the front, and partly to slow down any new settlers heading into the empty lands.
This will have to be done with some preplanning though, so we do nto pillage the roads we need to take out of the place after we kill the last king.
Abbasids and Byzantines are still the AIs with the highest power, and the highest number of VPs.
Our main stack of four zerk armies are right in the middle of Bewteen Germany and Byzans though. Tough call on where to send them.

As to cities, a lot of the outlying cities had up til last turn extra taxmen, as we would not be served by growth in them, and otherwise all would be lost to corruption. Likewise, corrupt cities on rivers should be grown to size 7, so as to get the extra two gpt from unit support.
It was the one factor we had that I could do something about to get a little income.

Grimjack
 
SAVE

In brief, we killed one German king and Theo committed suicide. Economy is more or less normal (+90 gpt) and we got a luxury connected. However, the game is getting very intense and we need some major progress during the next turns in the right direction. Situation with VP is good and there is no substantial threat there. Worst thing is that I got so caught up with the game that played all night and have to go to work. Wonder what I would do there.

Inspection of the Kievan Empire takes a long time. Started by renaming the cities. It would not add more confusion. Sarkel (??? Where did they find that one?) to Turov, Balatonboglar to Balaton, Szombathely to Szomba, Biatorbagy to Biator, Ryazan to Ryazan’, Murum (?? Misspelled) to Volyn’, Tmutorokan (?? This is outrageous) to Lyubech’. Some builds in corrupt cities switched to settlers or workers from improvements. Other builds switched from Cataphract to zerk. Does not look like Magyars or Bulgars had any luxuries. This is sad. Kill most of Magyar SOD advancing to Kiev. No promotions. Smells like a leader is on the way. Some mm yields us 52gpt. Still we are paying 37 gpt for unit support. Kill 2 spears in Pest (10 more to go?). Diplo is complete disaster. Theo has both Byzantine techs we need, so might want to go pay a visit to Nicea and Constantinople to extract them for peace. Germany looks very tempting. We’ll go after them next with armies. Trying to re-negotiate peace with Denmark and looks like they are very uncooperative. To trade Polearms we have to pay 45gpt. Pikemen are defense 4 units BTW. We’ll have a hard time fighting them even with zerk armies. Just build more armies, I guess. And pillage iron wherever possible. I take 60g from Denmark for peace. This is thus not a peace for peace deal and has to be honored. We have 30 cities now and can therefore build 7 armies total. Would be nice to have at least 14 more. At the last moment switched Ayidin to temple and set to starve to move some MP out of it. Even if we lose it, its not a big deal, just another ballast city. It would be a pain to defend it anyhow.
Movement phase. Some Magyar MDI and swords move forward but nothing was pillaged and they did not attack fortified cataphracts. Patzinak settler-> cat (it can support 3 tax collectors now). Bursa rax->spear, Ayidin temple->worker, Suzdal’ fract->zerk.

[1] 1179AD. SOD of armies set to rest for 2 turns. Another 2 spears gone from Pest. Zerk army becomes yellow. Fract army wakes up and takes another spear with next one veteran but unfortified. Army redlines back in the process. Hammering of Magyar MDI SOD give us the leader Yaroslav the Wise III. He cannot build the army because we don’t have 32 cities. Alas. Many Magyar units slaughtered, around 15. Pskov and Vitebsk go to settlers with some native and Burgundian workers joining them next turn. Longship loaded with 3 zerks and fourth is on the way. Theo has no units close to us.
IBT. Many Magyars attack but we lost no units and killed two attackers. Fracts are smart, they retreat sometimes. Sweden and Abbasids make alliance against Cordova. Sweden joins the godpile. Vitebsk settler->settler, Pskov settler->zerk, Vacs spear->town hall (it is ring 2 city, so there is some hope), Turov goes to disorder (checked it preturn and it was OK), Lyubech’ rax->town hall.

[2] 1182AD. Two more cities founded and leader builds an army. Right in time for another leader, Igor III. Many Magyars killed. Armies heal slowly but steadily. One of them and new fract army go to Pest to slaughter the endless supply of spears there. Now it comes to regulars. Longship sails to Nicea just for scouting and occasional diversions. We need at least two more to go. Did some mm again trying to get the fourth settler now which proved impossible.
IBT. Many units move. Magyars are trying to reinforce defense of Pest with additional spears coming in. Kiev zerk->zerk, Balaton spear->temple, Murom temple->town hall.

[3] 1185AD. Killed 3 spears and archers in Pest revealing a worker. The fract army has 2 hp. Attacking the king and killing him. Magyars are gone! VP at 18840 which is less than expected. Decided to go for Germany. With 6 armies we can do it rather rapidly IMO. Their kings are in Strasbourg, Regensburg, and Naumburg. Regensburg seems to be the key. Naumburg and Strasburg and 2-3 moves away from their capital. No dromons spotted in the Black Sea. We have only 34 cities. What are we going to do with the spare leaders? Rush temples? Or longships? There is a free luxury! It is wool which was somewhere in Magyar or Bulgar territory! Just need to get a worker there to build a colony. At least some relief for some time. Of bring up an army there to guard the colony. Closest worker would get there in six turns. Would also dispatch one German fract army there. It need some healing after killing the last Magyar king anyhow. Just pray some Franks would not settle there first. Armies would need 7 turns from now to get to Regensburg from outside the German border. We’ll start Byzantine campaign with just 3 longships. There is not enough cash to rush fourth even though we are making +66gpt with resistance gone. I will build settlers from some size 7 corrupt cities reducing down to size 5 if they can keep 2 taxmen. This would free 1 MP from them also for total benefit 1gpt. Rushed second longship in Turov. This also decreases our immediate cash. So, if somebody comes and demands something, it would be 7g or less. Making 67gpt after all mm.
IBT. Sweden moves some pikemen and Franks move settlers and knights apparently to the wool as well. Nothing much can be done about it. Kiev settler->zerk, Novgorod settler->settler (it is hopelessly corrupt now), Bursa spear->spear, Suzdal’ zerk->zerk, Polotsk town hall->rax (city may be key to war with Sweden), Rostov settler->settler, Turov ship->ship.

[4] 1188AD. Nicea has pikeman on top so it becomes a close call with just zerks. Some fracts from Kiev dispatched to the northern part of the empire just in case. Got rid of the last 2 clowns.
IBT. Settler rush to wool. Pskov zerk->zerk, Smolensk zerk->spear.

[5] 1191AD. Army arrives to wool and fortifies there to heal and guard. Leader builds another army which we now have 9. Will load fracts there to help with home security just in case. There is a feeling we are about to be sneak-attacked soon. There is a swarm of Swedish units around Polotsk, so main base would be there. Rename to Northen cavalry army. Rushed longship number 3. Income +71gpt (without luxuries). Commerical trait pays off even though corruption is terrible for this map size. Second ring of cities is hardly productive without town halls. We have 36 cities and desperately need 4 more in the near future. The only diplo options for tech catch ups is re-negotiating peace with Denmark, Sweden, or France, buying something for gpt on the way, and then asking them to leave. Sure, they would declare. Sweden is scary, Denmark is loved by Charis and he would then try to make peace with them ASAP for some major gpt payments. Franks are far away and very powerful, so no techs this turn.
IBT. Settler mad rush continues. Biator fract->temple, Szomba ship->ship.

[6] 1194AD. A crazy idea appeared of sending an army to Ancyra. Instead it goes to Pecs to help defend the city in case of Theo attack on it. Athens are also coastal so might be the next goal just to cripple Theo. Rushed ship number 4 with map brokering cash and the last. Moving last 4 zerks to load and launching war.
IBT. Kiev zerk->zerk, Bursa spear->duct, Uskudar ship->settler, Suzdal’ zerk->zerk, Murom town hall->zerk, Vladimir smith->rax.

[7] 1197AD. Time has come. We are almost there, just a little effort. Declared war to Germany. Moving 5 armies in their territory. (One has 10 of 14hp but should be OK).
IBT. All quiet, only German burgers hide behind city walls. Kiev settler->zerk, Pskov zerk->zerk, Chernigov warrior->wealth.

[8] 1200AD. We got wool! Armies advancing forward. Decided to mm MP and happiness everywhere but just dropped luxury tax down to 30% and seems that we are doing fine, need very few adjustments. Ships ready for Nicea.
IBT. Sweden and Abbasids allied against Norway. Kiev spear (for MP) -> zerk, Balaton temple->smith, Veszprem spear-> town hall.

[9] Armies advance through Germany undisturbed. Ships ready. Declare war to Theo. Nicea captured killing two pikes and one spy in the process. Lost one zerk, two redlined. Keep the city but its all resisters. Attack of Constantinople: kills 5 pikes and spy, lost 2 zerks, destroy rax there. Most of the zerks are redlined. 12 was not enough for 2 cities.
IBT. Sweden and Cordova sign peace. Abbasids come and ask for TM and 23g. We happily pay. Franks build a town right near the wool. Once they get cultural expansion, the wool is gone. It might take some time though. Some spies pillage some roads around Nicea. Vitebsk settler->spear (city would be back to size 7 in 3 turns), Nicea riots because they don’t like our zerks. Suzdal’ zerk->zerk, Smolensk spear->duct, Gyor smith->zerk, Volyn’ rax->temple (just in case), Pereyaslavl spear->temple. We have WLTKD in Patzinak!

[10] 1206AD. Siege of Regensburg. Zerk armies attack, 4 spears dead and armies still in good shape for next turn. At Constantinople: 4 more or less in good shape zerks kill vet, regular, and two conscript pikes revealing fortified sword. Still there are some 2hp zerks. Attacking with vet and he dies promoting the sword, attacking with elite and he wins. See only a glimpse of Theo drinking some poison. Her body was never found though. Keep the city for now. It has harbor, duct and market. Market sold but harbor is too precious to sell, so we keep it. Moving zerk army to get some reinforcements. We want to keep these two cities whatever the cost because it is the only way out of Black sea now and this means fast means to deliver zerks and armies all over Mediterranean. I’m talking of Abbasids, Fatimids, Cordova, Castile, and whoever lies beyond (France, England, and Vikings. Also, army can have a chance at Ancyra. But this is apparently too early to deal with. The cities are large and would take some time to starve but it is very unlikely we can keep them because Whoever took the wheel after Theo is moving some LB around which have attack 6. Decreased luxury tax down to 20%. No adjustments are needed. Making 108 gpt and rushing another ship for frightening 176g. On closer examination, Charis was right. We cannot keep Nicea and Constantinople. There is also a couple of fracts running around. So, sold everything and abandon both cities. We can resettle there once the army arrives if we need to. Sailing to Athens. No dromons around. Income dropped down to 94gpt without these Greek taxmen. Leaving behind an elite zerk to cover retreat.
IBT. Theo (well, strictly speaking, she is dead) allied castile against us. We will survive this. Germany moves troops out of Regensburg and workers inside. Yaroslavl’ settler->settler, Pskov zerk->zerk, Pecs settler (for Nicea)->temple, Aydin worker->worker, Vladimir rax->duct, Turov ship->ship.

[11] 1209AD. Do not even try to ask why I play part of turn 11. At Regensburg: 3 pikes and crusader dead, king also dead. We keep the city. It has 7 resisters, market, police office and manor as well as 5 workers. Take workers with armies, abandon city. Armies advance to Strasbourg. IMHO it can be poorly defended. Capital jumps to Naumburg.

Its 6 am and I have to go to work soon. So, please forgive that turn 11 is not finished. Indeed it has only started. No mm, nothing but murder of German king. Playtime 8 hours straight. Plan was to bring over army, settle at Nicea ruin, then take out Ancyra with zerk armies (one ready and another was supposed to be generated from leader which was supposed to appear during siege of Constantinople. However, there is none. Then, either make peace or kill the king in Athens. Longships can sail for a couple of turns so the zerks can rest (not sure if they heal in their ships but there is no way back) and then strike at Athens. They can heal in neutral territory in Italy if needed near Pisa. Or on a small island with forest in Danish waters near Trelleborg. Our ships sail twice as fast as dromons, so they are no real threat. We can always escape to some quiet harbor. Then, it might be possible to settle Constantinople of one tile south on the forest.

With Germany it is straightforward, no tricks there. Just come and kill. Economy is in good shape. We just need more cities. At least 12 or something around this number. VP only 21875. The game can be decided within next 20 or so turns IMO. After Germany, France should be no problem once the armies heal. Then, we need take care of our Asian and African brothers (Abbasids and Fatimids). This can be done probably with longships dropping of zerks and couple of armies to coastal towns. The turns were very intense indeed. Probably, the most intense game I’ve ever played. And good thing, it is not over yet.
 
Seems like fun turns :)

A classical all nighter to boot :)

having 100+ gpt income before markets, thats an accomplishment well worth mentioning :)

Small nit, are you sure it is more economical having a size 5 with taxmen, rather than a size 7 ? Or have i missed something, when I assumed we get two more unit support from a size 7 city ?

Grimjack
 
Fantastic set of turns Akots! And epic in nature, worthy of an all-nighter :lol:

Our generals are certainly rising up to the challenge and we've achieved the 'focus' needed to make a serious run at victory! Not only that, our generals are growing larger 'brass ones'. Declaring on both Germany and Constantinople, by free will, on one turn, is very bold - and well done! :hammer:

It would have been sweet as you hoped to keep Nicaea and Constantinople, but I think you were realistic and saw that couldn't happen (the only chance for that was "pre-declare" 8 turns before taking both cities, and that was a huge risk). It will be interesting to see if we can wipe them out with Athens/Ancyra or if we'll need to take peace and come back later. Good point that resettling both cities gives us a gateway for our non-army amphib zerks to get in the game and do some serious damage on coastal cities and civs. Heck, it might be more likely to sail around to Denmark then get a northern city and 4 more ships. From the other games I know that once the time comes to declare on a Scandinavian civ with 3 coastal kings, they should disappear from the planet on the very turn or the next turn after we declare! (Will need 6+ ships to see that though)

Having chosen this dual attack, next steps are at least clear as you said - finish Germany and with same armies, wipe out France. Finish or peace+rehit with Byz, followed by taking possession of the gateway cities.

Seems like one of the best things our 2nd ring home town cities can work on is a settler, which translates to 1/4 of an army for 30 shields. :P

Grimjack, regarding the 5 or 7, if the reason for the decrease is a settler, the new city will give +2 more support as well as at least +1 income, so skimming settlers is good - skimming workers would decrease unit support and add one more unit.

Two comments/questions:
- I would have at least considered *gifting* Constant/Nic to an upcoming target like France rather than abandoning, for a trivially easy recapture once we're at peace with Byz.

> We keep the city. It has 7 resisters, market, police office and
> manor as well as 5 workers. Take workers with armies,
> abandon city.
Abandon was after selling off market and improvements, right?
You *DO* know that when you abandon a city any and all unhappiness in the city due to whipping/drafting goes to YOUR nearest city right? That's a big deal in regular industrial era games but with no drafts and Monarchy govt, may be a non-issue here. I once forgot this and captured a city massively abused by the AI and when I abandoned it caused my nearby size 18 almost-WLTKD city to have 5 content and 13 unhappy faces (!!)
If you're not going to keep a city, it usually pays to raze it and get more workers.

I'm kinda glad you took/started turn 11 -- having decided a bold course of action and playing all night, that German capital king belonged to you! (Joo ownz heem!) :hammer:

One finally good point... you got us to a 'normal' 90gpt?? For us in this game that is **fantastic** :goodjob: Just 20 turns ago we were at 35g-18gpt purely surviving on map sales hidden income, what a great job on the economy. Paying attention to the wool will be important. If a 'French' settler poaches it, all the better!! (They're our next target and we should have a mini-Sod ready to capture and keep that city right when we declare war on French)

Roster...
Charis <-- UP
Jabah <-- on deck
Grimjack
Akots <-- exhausted but satisfied

Oh my, it's me?! :eek: Why did I think Jabah was next as I was typing the notes above. I have 2 other games ahead in the queue, and obviously this one will take longer than a normal set of 10 turns. I would encourage folks to continue to play carefully and with an eye on the victory conditions and path, and not rush. Don't let it drag obviously, but either feel free to take 5-8 turns if a good stopping/handoff point occurs then, or take an extra 24hrs to play if you go the full 10. We don't want to lose too many more nights of sleep on it though :p

"Got it", in the queue.
Charis
 
Back
Top Bottom