Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[Captain Fargle]

Because I'm not entirely convinced by the two army plan, that's why.

EDIT: Wait, do we have a second vote or don't we? I'm confused.

 

[MathNerd]

Srry, got confused.

No second vote, I misinterpreted Arya.

 

[Celticfury]

Captain, you've stating that you aren't convinced with Ravus's plan. My question for you is, how is you're plan going to work? Would you have us go straight for Italy and attack Germany later, or continue with the invasion of Germany first and then sweep through Mediolanum into the Roman heartland?

 

[MathNerd]

I like CF's plan, except for the problem I just realized... the Germans may not accept our city. Only a few times did an AI accept one of my cities, especially in peacetime.

 

[Captain Fargle]

My idea would be rather to attack using a priority target system, work out which cities are:

a: The weakest defended? Attacking the weakest cities first allows to destroy Caesar's capability to retaliate much faster.

b: Which cities are most valuable to us? Which cities will provide the largest return, the fastest, on our investment of hammers and gold into them? These cities obviously need to be considered higher priority because they create the least stress on our already fragile economy.

c: The least important category honestly, particularly seeing as how we're protective. Which cities are the easiest for us to defend against counter attacks? As soon as we get Longbows, as Churchill, this category becomes nearly irrelevant but given that our economy is straining our research might drop to low enough that we may be without them for some time and as such it needs to be considered.

Hope that clears it all up for you.

EDIT: The Germans should accept it as long as they share borders/have cultural influence in it if I remember correctly. It's been a while since I played regular BTS so I'm not entirely sure.

 

[arya126]

MN- Really? I have never tried becaus ein my games im too greedy to give up a city.

 

[Aysee]

I vote 3 and 2.

Also: I agree that we have to break the roman blockade ASAP. HOW CAN NO ONE HAVE NOTICED THIS. Basically that's it.

 

[MathNerd]

Sorry for the confusion, but you can't vote twice...

 

[Cull]

I vote 3 and 2.

Also: I agree that we have to break the roman blockade ASAP. HOW CAN NO ONE HAVE NOTICED THIS. Basically that's it.

No wonders just yet. We need more workers. Amsterdam/York is practically unimproved ATM, and those grass cottages will be yummy once we get some workers there. Naval blockades in Spain is hurting us badly, perhaps we should pump out a couple trimenes(sp?).

Somebody did notice..

 

[Captain Fargle]

I just assumed breaking the blockade would be a natural part of fighting/winning the war and would happen as a matter of due course.

 

[Nukeknockout]

2#,because statistically,it offers the most chances of success,and it's what I personally would do in this situation

 

[MathNerd]

1 for all.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Ughhhh. See this is what happens when a peaceful minister loses his second-in-command military advisor.

Arya if you want the reason why people have changed opinions, some slightly and some extreme its because of that month of time. While in game it's been 5 minutes since our hordes sped through Antium clearing the streets of Roman soilders out of game people have gone on holiday, relaxed a bit, and not they seem to think the war is nearly over.

The war is not over. Untill i hear confirmation of where the Roman stack of Doom is. (And you know they have one) Then the nation is still in a state of hightened alert. Defcom 1 to use the american phrase.

Now As the minister of peace i'm going to weigh in. I'm not the happy go lucky WIM minister of peace. I'm the guy that will go out and tie your enemies feet to stone blocks and drown them in the british sea. Peace of the dead.

On the War Plan
Arya's plan (and 2 other people wanted it as well from memory) was to thrust straight into italy. This would have meant we were commited to mopping up most of rome and would be difficult to work.
The Peaceful plan is Mathnerds; to get the two commerce cities then make peace. You allways say it like the romans will take peace... what if they don't? You never make a war plan where you go "oh yes we can stop fighting at this point". It takes one person to decalre war but TWO to make peace.
The Compromise is the best of both worlds. We get the commerce cities and try to cut of the roman passage east. Then we pause, look around and see whats going on. If Arya is right and Rome is going to die anyway we would all prefer Rome to be in our hands then the Russians. Thus the two armies continue the advance.
The German Vassal. I had no idea they were our vassals. I mentioned i wished this were the case ages ago so we could gift them cities. Bravo on Captain Fargle mentioning it again. I fully support this as it would also lessen the Copperheads influence. You can allways gift cities too VASSALS. They also get two units when you do. If we have feud or CS by then germany could get two macemen or two longbowmen per city. perfect.

Wonders
MN has now re-re-reagreed the no wonders till peace policy. We can sort out the civics and builds for a wonderspam later.

Builds
The Isles are only building untill Iberia gets online as our unit spam. That would only be about 10-15 turns. Then it can do whatever it likes. That was the compromise reached ages ago and guess what its the one you are heading toward re-re-reagreeing too again. All these arguements are old and as Arya has said the compromises have allready been sorted out, you've just forgotten.

The Libraries came out of no-where especially during a time of war. It's obvious Whosit would now be going "WHAT ABOUT THE WAR!" So i'll do it for him. Don't build libraries untill you are certain the war will end in our favour. Take the two commerce cities with the nation on a war footing THEN look around and see whats going on. If rome suddenly starts attacking you and won't take peace you will look stupid because the army will then be alone with no line of reinforcements coming.

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Now i'm sure you've all allready posted loads with the speed that happens here so i'll post this now and post more later

EDIT: Vote the combination of the compromise and the liberating roman cities to germany

 

[Cull]

Forges are needed. Granies are needed in Amerstadam and Antium. The libraries, at least in York, make sense. I want a granary>forge>library in order of importance.

The peaceful plan originally came from Whosit.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Yes they are needed. But a army needs constant reinforcement. Forges in the british isles can work AFTER they've pumped out some units and graneries are allways built in begining cities. Only cities with barracks are worthwhile at the moment because we are trying to make better trained soilders then the romans.

A library in york would stop the missionary production but as RY isn't one of the unit pumps for the war then yes one there isn't a problem. I meen building this stuff in cities that should be contributing war effort.

Whosits plan was different. He wanted a LOT more catapults and a constant line of reinforcement that wouldn't stop untill peace was officially declared. Not just "when things seem to be winding down" He also never said we'd stop. He said we'd attempt peace negotiations. He didn't know wether peace would be decalred through the civ game screen or via a dialogue with Julius played by Lighthearter. Whosit was fully prepared to continue fighting if he had to.

Mathnerds plan is; Get the commerce cities. Slow down then stop unit production as the war is nearly over. Once you have the commerce cities stop the war.

See the difference?

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1) Take Neo and Cumae, then make peace
2) Ravus's double army compromise
3) 2+4
4) CF's plan (give the leftover cities to Germany)

Matherd = 1
Arya = 3
Captain fargle = 4
NukeKnockout = 2
Aysee = 3&2 (only allowed one)
Ravus = 3

Also this is kind of biased voting statistically. As The Liberation (4) is a method of attack not a attack plan itself. The Compromise (2) is listed as a plan (edited) and Arya's original plan isn't listed. The ability to vote for both the Compromise and the Liberation together (3) skewers the results as it divides the voting base of those supporting it into two groups.

 

[Cull]

No, I'm pretty sure Whosit was the first to say take Germany, then peace.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

*sigh*

Yes he did. I agreed with you Cull. I'm saying the strategic planning behind it was different.

Whosit wanted to take Germany with a CONTINUED line of reinforcement and ATTEMPT peace.
Mathnerd wishes to take Germany with a DIMINISHED line of reinforcement and MAKE peace.

MN's plan takes the arguement that the war is nearly over and we can make peace whenever we want. Troops can be cut back on because we don't need them

Whosit's plan takes the arguement that the war is never over till the peace treaty is signed. He had no idea if we could gain a peace but wanted to try. Troops would be continued and fall into appropriate defensive posts untill Englands safty was definatly secured.

Now can you see the difference?

 

[Aysee]

I withdraw my vote for 3, and throw my full support behind the dual army plan.

 

[ilduce349]

Lets just make peace

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Lets just make peace

euuuugh. Once again. What makes you think we can make peace? You've upgraded the english war in your mind. We were losing untill all of 5 minutes ago. Rome pushed us back to Iberia and we only managed to retake our loses and Antium because they were underdefended.

The AI may think we havn't done that much damage to it. What if WE CAN'T make peace? As i said. not 5 posts ago. It takes two to make peace. One person Attempts peace and see's if the other is willing to negotiate a price for it.

Seeing as we've only done superficial damage i don't see the romans accepting any peace offers from us now unless we give them back antium and a few techs. And i'm sorry but that is just silly to contemplate giving to a rival nation.