Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[Dem Taqat]

Hey!!!
Stop Belittling NC and IMWP.
True they might not be a powerful ally, but they are an Ally. If we won NC WOULD have been Vice President. He would have had power. We treat our Allies, ALL of our Allies, with respect, particularly allies as useful as NC has proven.

Also. how much Influence will the Opposition have on the planning? I've never had to be in this position before, but In RP India we had a pretty hard time negotiating the Entire plan. We have almost 1/2 the votes, so I think we should have a fairly large say.

DT
Plotting Contingency Plots

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Isn't this the Second time not the third that The Patriots have won? I suppose technically we Drew in the first election the Patriots came together seeing as it was decided by a coin toss (two face style). Either way, Go Team!

I though WIM would get something like the Minister of Peace position in opposition to my own.

I'll get a War Plan out pronto once the details of the coalition compromise are sent. But the basic idea i'd assume would be:

• Take Moscow, the Buddhist Capital and take the Toasist Capital south of there.
• Then see if the Arab-Russian alliance will be brought to the table.
• Failing that start advancing to the south east to cut of the Arab Pass.
• Use the secondary defencive army in the German Vassal Lands to fortify the pass from Egypt to Germany. (This would be another avenue for the Arab-Russian to assault through and would please the Germans to have troops stationed there.)
• Shore up all the border cities with Machine Gunner first.
• Send the Spy units, Great Spy and Spy blimps to scout out and find any Arab or Viking Army Doom Stacks. Keep track of them once found.
• Make sure we have a strong Navy to protect the islands and for future continental expansion.

Spoiler Ragnar backstab :

For Ragnar the best bet would be to use our better spy power against him. First strike should take out the Greeks then try to lure the doom stack into our territory and destroy it. Or advance slowly through the Norse territory making sure the Doom Stack doesn't counter attack

-

On the Opposition strength. You do have a lot of power but things depend upon how you portray yourself. Plus whether you just want to oppose... start fights in house... or work out compromises. For instance taking a aggressive stance so soon after ilduce's mad romp could cause the Administration to see you in a bad light and deny any of the actions you want. Making a list of demands could also be bad but if some are reasonable and you lay them all out in advance things could work out well on the bargaining table. You could go quiet... make no demands or talk at all and just start a slow terror campaign untill we have to go to war on you. You could keep your actions verbal or threaten sabotage or something else but it all depends on if you are bluffing and whether you are willing to destroy England in a childish rage just because you don't have Majority Power.

*shrug*

The choices are yours and in this aspect of political life i believe it is "your move"

 

[Whosit]

We will not do anything that will harm England or impair the War Effort. So long as we are satisfied that you will do the same, there should be little conflict. What I believe that Dem Taqat was saying, in his own way, that we will not quietly step aside if our voices are ignored. I do hope that your administrations plans are presented (in a closed session, of course) for our perusal. Surely you would be doing yourselves a disservice if you allowed a battle plan to be implemented without the opinion of the War Parties.

 

[Aysee]

Hmm... I think we should take the two cities closest to St. Petersburg, the holy cities, and then shuttle troops through Germany to seal off Russia from Arabia.

Then see if Saladin wants peace; if so, great. If not, continue fighting.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Hmm... I think we should take the two cities closest to St. Petersburg, the holy cities, and then shuttle troops through Germany to seal off Russia from Arabia.

Then see if Saladin wants peace; if so, great. If not, continue fighting.

Please extrapolate the bolded bits. I don't understand your reasoning why do this BEFORE trying to get peace? Plus shuttling troops through Germany gets us to Egypt and then too Arabia... nothing to do with Russia. Or did you mean Middle Europe when you said Germany?

 

[NinjaCow64]

Hey!!!
Stop Belittling NC and IMWP.
True they might not be a powerful ally, but they are an Ally. If we won NC WOULD have been Vice President. He would have had power. We treat our Allies, ALL of our Allies, with respect, particularly allies as useful as NC has proven.

Thank you .

On the point of me being a lap dog, just because I’m a OMP and that I share similar views to the Imperials doesn’t mean me and my party are lap dogs. I just had a slightly more extreme view on war, just like the Green Party compared to the Sanity Party. The Green Party is more pacifist than the Sanity Party, WIM deserves his own party.

Anyway, I don’t want to argue/inflame so I’m going to leave the discussion here.

 

[Fellow]

Please do not forget by all your great plans, that a major part of the coalition is peacefull and wants only to gain what would bring us major advantages (the two holy cities for example) and not any more to get back to peace asap.

 

[arya126]

OOC:TW has asked that we stop after the two holy cities and ask for peace. In a hurry right now, but i think im leaning towards that, plus an extra city somewhere, havent decided which. Then we build up on viking and greek borders, and attack them, annexing poland, and hopefully vassalizing the vikings while taking nidaros.

More to come later as i send out a rough draft of a plan after school.

 

[Dem Taqat]

@Ravus-I'm planning to be a reasonable Negotiator, cuz I like losing to AI's much worse than losing to humans.

@Whosit- I agree, the War parties are WAR Parties for a reason, they should have input in the War.

@Aysee-it's easier to cut off the Arabs by taking Yekaterinburg, and it will split their nation in two, weakening them significantly.

@NC- I will respect the wishes of an ally not to take this further, and I agree with what you said.

@Fellow- I understand you're a pacifist, but surely you can see the advantages of splitting the Arab/Russians into two seperate areas?

The whole is more than the sum of it's parts

after all, and we could do great long term damage to major rivals, with little extra effort, and gain even more leverage for a favourable peace settlement.

@Arya-I'm sure that thing about the vikings was meant to be closed? They are potential allies, and it wouldn't help their opinion of us for our president to be slandering them would it?
[closed] I think a 3rd city in russia should be Yekaterinburg, as it will do most long term damage. As for the vikings I would like to see a conquest of most of Scandanavia's grassland before a vassalization, and prehaps we could get them to sign over those northern Islands to the khan, in compensation for their aid in the russian Invasion. Edit: looking back Nidaros is all of Scandanavia's grassland. Iguess we can go with just that then.[closed]

I'll post further comments once we get a draft plan

DT
Campaigning for the Crusaders

 

[Aysee]

Right:

My proposal:
Take the two cities closest to St. Petersburg.
Take the two holy cities.
Take Ykaterineburg, sealing off Russia from Arabia
Seek peace. (If not, attack Arabia)--more on that later.

We want this war to be over quick, right? So to do that we need to dedicate the entire country to war. EVERYTHING in the country will have to be doing something military related. We may even have to institute a draft.

 

[Dem Taqat]

@Aysee- I would like to see most of that, but I don't think a draft is nessecary unless we are ed by the . We should also not have low hammer cities producing units, as they would do better to work on infrastructure. Other than that I think your proposal would work well, although we may see some opposition from the former Sanity Coalition.

DT
Argueing Points

 

[arya126]

It doesnt matter if your "war parties'. Do what you want when you get into office. Its just...you DIDNT get into office. And im fine with my current minister of war. Theres no need for the Imperials and the IMWP to but into the business of revising or making a plan. If you post any suggestions you have, I may or may not take them into account.

 

[Dem Taqat]

@Arya- Maybe being War Parties doesn't mean that much, but the election was close enough that you can't really ignore us. We would take your views into account if we were in power, you should extend similar courtesy to us. We don't expect you to give us cabinet slots, particularly the Vital 'Minister of War' post, but we would like you to listen to our views. We are trying to handle the situation with negotiation, and seeing we all have very similar views about what to do in the short term I see little harm in negotiation. As long as everybody is aware of what you have promised your coalition to do, and thus can't bend on, we should be able to work out a reasonable compromise.

I'm not trying to be agressive here, but I think the close election means that this Opposition should at least be listened too.

DT
Willing to Work Constructively

 

[ruff_hi]

I would like to join the Vetinari Party as I like their Domestic over Foreign approach. However, I feel that I am probably more Domestic than the average Ventinari member as I would like to see England withdraw totally from Foreign issues ... looking after the home front is much more important that wasting time and money on aliens.

 

[Aysee]

Isolationism? Never works. Just look at China for an example.

Now... A suggested war plan is to take Moscow and Yaroslavl to give St. Petersburg more breathing space; march down to take Yakutsk for the Holy City, then with backup troops from Germany, take Ykaterineberg to seal off Arabia.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Hello Ruff the leader of the Veternari Party has gone AWOL at the moment but i'm sure he may return. If not you can allways create your own party later.

I notice that each War proposal keeps adding more cities to take. I think the Coalition aims are clear The two holy cities for the money and One Buffer city if applicable to be decided by the President.

Spoiler :

If we desire more space for the conquered cities then we can just turn around and make some space in the west from the Norse Vikings and Greeks

And on the subject of taking the input of the War Parties. Last time the Imperials were in power Whosit ran a Authoritarian Government system in which he only vaguely listened to the opposition... Any attempt to argue that we can not do the same would be hypocritical. I will take input on the war and reinforcements etc. but in the end the plan will be passed onto Arya who has final choice. The only person Arya HAS to listen too is his Vice President Twinkletoes who helped him get into power.

 

[Whosit]

I would like to join the Vetinari Party as I like their Domestic over Foreign approach. However, I feel that I am probably more Domestic than the average Ventinari member as I would like to see England withdraw totally from Foreign issues ... looking after the home front is much more important that wasting time and money on aliens.

Well, well, you did show up, after all! Welcome aboard, ruff!

@Ravus: While that's technically true, recall that I did explicitly state that I would rule with an authoritarian fist if elected. Just sayin'.

 

[arya126]

Whosit: So?

Here is my final word on the matter: If you post any suggestions than i MAY OR MAY NOT tanke them into account. But if you dont post them in an organized fashion than i will ignore them completely no matter what.

But i will warn you, that i have very little room to compromise with you. I think its decided to take 3 cities and ask for peace, then take another if he says no.

 

[Twinkletoes89]

To back up Ravus and arya, the agreement is that the two holy cities are the critical targets and there is the possibility of one more city at president's discretion, but I would hope it is only taken if peace cannot be forced by the first two captures.

 

[Aysee]

Well, firstly, Moscow IS the Buddhist Holy City (At last check the second or third largest religion in the world), Yakutsk is the Taoist Holy city, and Ykaterineberg seals off Russia from Arabs.

Now, I'd also like Yaroslavl to give us some breathing space, but that's up to discussion.


EDIT: Our two holy cities will be crushed by the Arab culture without the other cities.The map shows that they're isolated and spread apart, so we'll be faced with constant revolts unless we station bucketloads of troops inside.