Rebalance of 2/3 of all civs in April!

[8housesofelixir]

who are blank without their leader

That can be said to many other civs. England without Victoria is quite strange, and China without Qin is basically a blank page plus Great Wall.

 

[Lord Lakely]

IMHO the so-called "weakness" of Georgia is the fact that their toolkit is neither leading to any specific Victories nor being a strong generalist.

The current Georgia is definitely not weak, but also not strong at "wining" a game because of the reasons above.

Try winning Dip with them. They're very good at it. Almost as good as Greece is.

- Flood Plains appeal for Egypt

Why doesn't Egypt get *extra yields* on improvements adjacent to Rivers? The Nile was imperative to their agriculture *and* trade *and* the transportation of building materials to their many construction sites. +1 Food to Farms/Plantations, +1 Gold to Camps/Pastures, +1 Production to Mines/Quarries/Lumbermills if adjacent to rivers, tyvm.

That can be said to many other civs. England without Victoria is quite strange, and China without Qin is basically a blank page plus Great Wall.

What he means is that France get no mileage out of Grand Tour, the Garde Impériale and the Chateau. He's right. England still has the Royal Navy Dockyard and extra iron/coal, both of which help a domination game.

Once, I tried to win CV as France by using Chateaux and Grand Tour, and I couldn't catch up with Brazil, so I pushed for (and won) Science instead. I was playing on King difficulty and had built nearly every wonder from the Renaissance era onwards.

It failed largely due to how underwhelming tourism from wonders is (compared to tourism from Great Works), however, so boosting *that* would buff France a great deal.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Try winning Dip with them. They're very good at it. Almost as good as Greece is.

Most of the other civs that are good at Diplo also have bonuses toward other victory types, and can use diplo victory as a last resort. Georgia, on the other hand, basically just have Diplo to pursue; the faith bonus is hard to get, and the tourism from Tsikhe is just okay.

France have nothing.

I agree with his points, and I primarily blame Château here. Grand Tour and Garde Impériale are okay, but Château is not really worthy of builder.

 

[Snarf054]

Any civ can easily win a Diplo victory. I got a new laptop so I decided to get a diplo win with every civ just for fun. I'm 7 for 7 so far.

I actually kind of hope this signals the end of Civ VI...IF they do it right. Do your final polishing for the complete edition, GIVE THE MODDERS WHAT THEY NEED to hold us over until they finish Civ VII, and just get cracking on it.

 

[Jkchart]

Make Georgia great again. Or maybe it's make Georgia great for the first time. Scythia sucks too, though the light cavalry bonus is pretty good.

I actually disagree on Georgia. Their changes with GS were pretty good for a faith/diplo civ. Enjoy playing them now.

Scythia...yes. The cav bonus is great, but their UU and UI are weaksauce.

 

[bengalryan9]

buffing the HORRIBLE leader abilities of Peter

Maybe, but they'd have to be careful here because Peter is already really strong (which you did point out in a later post).

- Flood Plains appeal for Egypt

This needs to happen. Hard to take advantage of all the appeal from sphinxes with -1 from every bordering flood plain.

 

[Dotsworthy]

One civ I have not seen mentioned is Rome, who are kinda boring. The free monument is okay, but instant roads and trading posts are weak sauce compared to everything else that has been added to the game since.

England definitely need some kind of change. Something that can synergise with Eleanor's abilities a tad better. Perhaps they will get a corporation's mode special ability too.

 

[DefiantMars]

It definitely feels like some Civs are sailing mostly on their Civ or Leader abilities. I hope some of that gets rectified with this upcoming patch.

We were told that 2/3 of the Civ roster would see changes. That is still very ambiguous as we don’t know how many buffs and nerfs there might be. So let’s resubmit the point:

1. What Civs do we think are getting Buffed
2. What Civs do we think are getting Nerfed?
3. Of the remaining 1/3, What Civs do we think are not being touched at all?

Buff: I’m going to state again that I hope they buff the Khmer. I don’t like how you have to game the Relic system for them and I think we have better opportunities to display their amazing waterways. I’d like to see their both Monasteries and Grand Barays changed. Maybe letting rivers grant Adjacency bonus to Holy Sites. And incorporating Dams and possibly even Canals into Grand Barays.

Nerf: I have no evidence, but I feel like Byzantium is going to get nerfed. They just have a lot going for them and their snowball potential is sizable.

Untouched: I feel Indonesia and Germany have firm playstyle and effects that support them and I don't view them as overbearing. I'd be surprised if they have any changes.

 

[8housesofelixir]

One civ I have not seen mentioned is Rome, who are kinda boring.

Rome is certainly not interesting, but "boring" doesn't equal to "weak". Free monument is actually very strong.

 

[Dotsworthy]

Buffing the HORRIBLE leader abilities of Peter

I imagine Peter is more likely to be nerfed, given his super quick pantheon, high adjacency work ethic religion, and army of great artists.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Peter's ability becomes a policy, make Lavra give GW for Shrine, GA for temple, and GM for Worshipbuilding, and give Peter a new ability. Your welcome.

 

[BD123]

Honestly if they re-work France I hope they make it so they're not this weird stereotype civ of "oh hon hon hon we sit back and build les wondres" and even then they're not that great building wonders or benefiting from them since wonder tourism is so bleh. The Garde Imperiale is so forgetable that in one round of musketmen buffs the devs themselves forgot about it.

Spain (is it me or does every historical game struggle to balance Spain? Civ 5, Civ 6, Age of Empires 3....) could have its CUA and LUA tweaked a bit, I think the conquistador is fine, maybe they can make them less tedious by allowing you to link religious units to them like way back in the days of initial release. The mission has undergone several tweaks here and there and it still feels weird, maybe because it's unlocked late in the civics tree but provides science and faith? I mainly play as Spain bc their playstyle - mid-game domination - is like the only kind of domination I do and they're fun when all things line up but it takes a LOT of work to line those things up, and when they don't you're stuck with a pretty blank civ who is supposed to go out and colonize overseas but doesn't really have any innate desire or benefit except some negligible trade route buffs. Maybe not making them so dependent on religion and putting more emphasis on overseas/inter-continental conquest would be better but idk Spain's identity in Civ has always been religious zealot.

Definitely want to see a re-work of all the infamous Rise and Fall casus belli leader abilities like Robert the Bruce's.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Buff China! right now China's UA is boring and uninspired!

 

[Datgingah]

Peter's ability becomes a policy, make Lavra give GW for Shrine, GA for temple, and GM for Worshipbuilding, and give Peter a new ability. Your welcome.

I don't think I need a Russia that is even more powerful... They're already a bit busted as is.

I think if you're going to buff Georgia, you could do it lightly with something like 'Each level of walls provides +1 Great Prophet point' - so they can not be as split by their focus on defense and religion. if they need more then that, make the cassius belli ability work on defensive wars as well.

I doubt Rome needs a buff, but if needed have the bath provide +1 more housing.

Spain needs the biggest rework - I liked the idea above, perhaps something like: Missionaries, Apostles, and Inquisitors provide a nonstacking +4 combat strength to units on the same tile and tiles around them. Apostles also provide +1 movement to units starting their turn within 1 tile of them.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Buff China! right now China's UA is boring and uninspired!

It's an okay Ability, but just needs some more flavor added to it.

 

[acluewithout]

I was pretty happy with where the current Civs are. I mean, it’s fine if FXS want to do a balance pass, but I think all are mostly ok.

My hope is FXS don’t just buff everything. It’s ok that some Civs are niche or a bit weak. It just gives you more okay options.

But quite happy for Civs to get a pass to make them a bit more flavourful.

95% of the changes will be for England.

England will be nerfed. England are always nerfed. This is the way.

 

[DefiantMars]

My hope is FXS don’t just buff everything. It’s ok that some Civs are niche or a bit weak. It just gives you more okay options.

But quite happy for Civs to get a pass to make them a bit more flavourful.

My complaint is that a lot of the civs that are weak are also not flavorful, or at the very least have clunky and disjointed mechanics. The aforementioned Khmer and Spain for example.

I don't mind Civs being weaker than others, that's just going to happen with balance regardless, but having abilities that are TOO niche, not interesting, AND not powerful is frustrating.

 

[Leucarum]

I deffinitely find khmer too niche for my tastes. Their music is the unpleasant kicker on the top of it.

Out of the civs I think could most use improvements (Spain, Canada, Mapuche, Georgia), I'd say Georgia needs it the least but I'd still put them in the buff zone rather than the neutral or nerf range.

I would especially like to see Babylon, Korea and Russia toned back a notch if I'm honest...

 

[8housesofelixir]

I mainly play as Spain bc their playstyle - mid-game domination - is like the only kind of domination I do and they're fun when all things line up but it takes a LOT of work to line those things up, and when they don't you're stuck with a pretty blank civ who is supposed to go out and colonize overseas but doesn't really have any innate desire or benefit except some negligible trade route buffs. Maybe not making them so dependent on religion and putting more emphasis on overseas/inter-continental conquest would be better but idk Spain's identity in Civ has always been religious zealot.

The problem with Spain is that, they have a good toolkit, but every tool inside the toolkit does not synergize with each other.

On the one hand, building an oversea colonial empire require Spain to invest in the upper half of tech tree (Harbor and ships) and civic tree (Mission, which is a good UI after the GS buff).
On the other hand, maintaining religious and combat pressure require Spain to invest in the lower half of tech tree (Conquistador) and civic tree (Theocracy).
And that's not to say Spain don't have any culture or science or faith bonuses, the player need to gear hard towards these already.

If anything, Spain need a much clearer focus (colonial empire or religious zealot, not both), or every tool in their toolkit needs an extra bonus (culture, science, and Great Prophet bonuses to help them unlock all the crucial techs).

 

[clapyourhands]

If anything, Spain need a much clearer focus (colonial empire or religious zealot, not both), or every tool in their toolkit needs an extra bonus (culture, science, and Great Prophet bonuses to help them unlock all the crucial techs).

The second part is a much better idea. Spain needs to be both a colonial empire and religious zealot, it was like it's main historical schtick.