Regarding NES Moderation

3 and 5. Then if you're gone, be gone. If there's no chance for reconciliation, then don't stay and argue. What would be the point? Yes, you could argue that you're defending yourself against Bsmith's accusations, but why should you care about what someone says on a forum you claim to have left?

Because future people or returning NESers need to know what happened here by hearing our side of it and not just his. They need to know that a better, fuller community exists elsewhere. That most of the people from our community, who did considerable work and produced valuable content, are elsewhere and are not the same as those who remain. Once the merger goes through, this subforum will barely be NESers at all anymore. Our voice still matters in our hobby. Unless the staff wants to ban us all, that is?
 
I'm sorry, this issue is obviously important to you, and it IS being taken seriously.

I appreciate the sentiment.


I in turn ask you, what indication are you and luckymoose giving to moderators that you can compromise in good faith? What reason to respect or indication have you given them that you will follow the rules that you would lay out?

That's a cheap debating point, EQ, and if we're at the point where we're making those we might as well just end this conversation.

I would like to think that my record here as a player of games and member of this community, as well as the records of many of the others infracted, banned, or who have left of their own volition, speaks for itself.

But if it does not -- if we are not welcome here, merely tolerated, at a place where many of us have spent many years -- then that says something very profound, doesn't it?

Anyway, I sincerely hope it works out.
 
If we have permission to speak freely.

I think the difference is on CFC, we're expected to be grateful for whatever freedoms we have and the leniency we are shown by the benevolent authorities. Whereas on The Frontier, its just how things are - a group of mature people hanging out and playing forum games. Not that threads don't get closed or deleted over there!

What the mods here don't understand is that, so long as there's the attitude of 'we could have banned all of you, so be grateful', CFC will never again be the heart of NESing. At least not for the core of the community now over on The Frontier.

But on the flip side, we can't really expect CFC to bend over backwards for NES either, and yes, there have been concessions we should recognise, that will be good for those still playing here.

Its a bitter ending but ultimately win-win, IMO, if we can get over our sentimentality towards CFC.

Lets not place all of this on BSmith, Amon, Symphony, NK or anyone else. It was 9 years in the making. Situations could have been handled better but I think we'd just be talking about a different flashpoint in a few months' time.
 
Speaking of the Frontier – let's have a little discussion about recent events over there as well. As many of you know I have been permanently banned on the Frontier. Last week I made an account over there in an attempt to do two things: First to defend myself from false accusations and from literally being compared to Hitler and other Nazis. Second to open another avenue of communication where I wouldn't be as restricted as I am here.

@BSmith I in no way support the abuse you received. NESers can be jerks, even the scum of the earth. I have been betrayed and left to die on the battlefield by people I've known for years. But in the end there's more than enough positives for me to love this community...

I think the problem is in the quote above. We'd all gone there to continue our hobby and community, and have a place to speak freely away from PDMA and the mods themselves. Since we weren't aware of you being involved in any games currently, even on CFC, people naturally took offence when you showed up.

Personally I think this is something you have to walk away from, and let things cool down. It could have been any moderator that caused this to blow up, you're just representing the CFC mod character in this story. I dare say its a minority who have issues with you personally, and they shouldn't IMO, but you can't win this argument any more than we'll get the whole CFC moderator staff to apologise :p

This is 2014, we have many ways of keeping our community going, and all of us posting here are evidently still checking in to CFC. I have faith things will evolve the way they are meant to ;)
 
@CheifDesigner: It is a cheap debating point, one which you made first. How can I hope to trust you, if you in turn will make no effort to trust me? I am not Bsmith, Birdjaguar, or Lefty. I am EQandCivfanatic. If am given half a chance both by you all and the moderators on CFC, I will make CFC the place that it needs to be.

@North King: Libel is a word I doubt any CFC moderators are going to use again. The topic of Bsmith's interactions on the Frontier are also not going to be brought up again by a moderator. I think we can confidently say that he regrets that particular action. You may also notice that no posts are being deleted or modified, his included, despite definite moderator observation and presence. Draw from that what you will. Lastly, a thread will be created probably this evening, to allow the posting of advertisements for IOTs and NESes on the Frontier here on CFC. While we aren't going to ask for reciprocation, we assume that the same will be allowed there.


Because future people or returning NESers need to know what happened here by hearing our side of it and not just his. They need to know that a better, fuller community exists elsewhere. That most of the people from our community, who did considerable work and produced valuable content, are elsewhere and are not the same as those who remain. Once the merger goes through, this subforum will barely be NESers at all anymore. Our voice still matters in our hobby. Unless the staff wants to ban us all, that is?

Your sentiments here offend me deeply. How am I, someone who has been running NESes LONG before any of the NESers who left, and certainly long before you ever arrived here, not an NESer or "barely" an NESer? How is the Frontier a "better" community? You claimed in the past you are not elitist, but the sentiments expressed here clearly are. If your only intention is to sabotage activity on this forum for sake of your perfect society, then why should your voice even be allowed? There's no reason to ban you, but there's certainly no reason to take you seriously based on the sentiment you show here. As I stated above to North King, a thread will be allowed for advertisement of STGs. Change will come to these forums in a number of ways, whether it's the NESes themselves or forum rules, whether you choose to be a part of it is up to you. DO NOT deride those who enjoy this hobby differently to you.


EDIT: If it would help, I would be happy to discuss any and all issues on #nes. Sadly I do not have access to #nes during the day. If desired, I could answer any questions or address any concerns there this evening from 6PM to 7PM EST.
 
Your sentiments here offend me deeply. How am I, someone who has been running NESes LONG before any of the NESers who left, and certainly long before you ever arrived here, not an NESer or "barely" an NESer? How is the Frontier a "better" community? You claimed in the past you are not elitist, but the sentiments expressed here clearly are. If your only intention is to sabotage activity on this forum for sake of your perfect society, then why should your voice even be allowed? There's no reason to ban you, but there's certainly no reason to take you seriously based on the sentiment you show here. As I stated above to North King, a thread will be allowed for advertisement of STGs. Change will come to these forums in a number of ways, whether it's the NESes themselves or forum rules, whether you choose to be a part of it is up to you. DO NOT deride those who enjoy this hobby differently to you.

Because you are one person, not the whole of our community, and we are the majority. Thus we are fuller. We are the core of NESing, as has been in place for a decade. You are part of it, but not the whole of it. We have taken the great majority of NESers, leaving behind barely anyone. Thus barely, as used, is proper. Those who do remain are mostly of IOT origin, by my count and the count of IOTers on Frontier, and are thus not of the same cultural core. You can ignore this and say there is no NESing culture or community, but that'd be silly.
 
As previously posted, if there is concern about this not being a free and open discussion or a need for more intensive and flowing discussion, I would be more than happy to take my views and answers to #nes upon request between the hours of 6PM to 7PM on any weekday evening. I reserve the right to withdraw if any dialogue there is not productive or constructive.

Because you are one person, not the whole of our community, and we are the majority. Thus we are fuller. We are the core of NESing, as has been in place for a decade. You are part of it, but not the whole of it. We have taken the great majority of NESers, leaving behind barely anyone. Thus barely, as used, is proper. Those who do remain are mostly of IOT origin, by my count and the count of IOTers on Frontier, and are thus not of the same cultural core. You can ignore this and say there is no NESing culture or community, but that'd be silly.

That's a more reasonable way to put it, but that does not mean that what emerges here will be any less valid or less of an NES as what is created on the Frontier. Still, you "have taken" is an odd phrasing considering how many are being active at both. This is the internet. There are no borders, no citizenship. This is also clearly not a productive avenue of discussion, therefore I am concluding my involvement in it. Feel free to get the last word if you so desire.
 
That's a more reasonable way to put it, but that does not mean that what emerges here will be any less valid or less of an NES as what is created on the Frontier. Still, you "have taken" is an odd phrasing considering how many are being active at both. This is the internet. There are no borders, no citizenship. This is also clearly not a productive avenue of discussion, therefore I am concluding my involvement in it. Feel free to get the last word if you so desire.

I do so desire. Thank you. Taken is the proper word, as we moved as a unit. We went as one. We decided to leave based on the abuses here against us, being unanswered, among other things, for years. We've lost people of a quality so far above the ones defended by the moderators that it breaks my heart. You can pretend activity remains here, but most of the posting isn't IC, unlike on Frontier, and fewer games have updated since the move than on Frontier. The longest running NES, a piece of art never to be duplicated in this community, has left and won't return. What is left isn't the beast, not the breathing organism of our community, but the moulted shell that contained us and ours within its crusty, confining embrace for too long. We've escaped, mostly intact, and will be grander than we ever were before.
 
Because future people or returning NESers need to know what happened here by hearing our side of it and not just his. They need to know that a better, fuller community exists elsewhere. That most of the people from our community, who did considerable work and produced valuable content, are elsewhere and are not the same as those who remain. Once the merger goes through, this subforum will barely be NESers at all anymore. Our voice still matters in our hobby. Unless the staff wants to ban us all, that is?

A fair point, but how many people that may arrive in the future really going to care? Will any new joiner get a PM from someone that never participates pointing them to threads like this, where they can hear debates between those that are active and people who have left long ago?

Not saying that you are wrong to try to leave something for other to find of this fiasco, but continuing the debate/argument "for posterity" doesn't really hold much value on the internet.
 
There are many who still maintains accounts on both sites. Also, I believe that some of us moved simply because of EoE, or because the core group decided to go.

I do not know why this discussion is still alive after all.
 
I don't think that the people who are dead set on going to the Frontier or staying at CFC will be able to reconcile their disagreements for the time being, as the conflict is still in everyone's minds from the recent past. I think that it will take a few months for everyone to cool down and be able to talk about it impartially without getting fired up and angry. At the same time, I think that some sort of game cross-forum representing thread would be useful for those of us who still frequently use CFC as well as the frontier (like me) and want to be able to play/mod games in both.

Just my $0.02.
 
Generally I'm pretty apathetic about things, but I do think that this whole situation was blown way out of proportion. I'll agree with EQ that both sides have some responsibility for escalation and lingering tension.

I'll still be here while being on the Frontier, though I'll note I've moved Our Terrible Purpose for various reasons.
 
I want to take the time to apologize for elements of my above post. It was wrong of me to bring the drama that happened on the Frontier here on CFC, especially when I have asked that others not do that.

It is clear that I have become emotionally involved with things as they currently stand. For this reason I will be recusing myself from moderating in the NES subforum for the time being.
 
The whole situation is thoroughly ridiculous and overblown as TMG points out ... nevertheless, the takeaway is that the site staff is just as emotionally incapable as the so-called NESing luminaries of separating their sense of entitlement and importance from the matter at hand. There has been a complete failure to compromise and - arguably - power has been abused, whatever the (unwieldy, often self-important, accusatory, grandiose, etc) language used by NESers to entreat the moderators. Period paragraph and stuff.
 
Generally I'm pretty apathetic about things, but I do think that this whole situation was blown way out of proportion. I'll agree with EQ that both sides have some responsibility for escalation and lingering tension.

I'll still be here while being on the Frontier, though I'll note I've moved Our Terrible Purpose for various reasons.

I very much want to echo this sentiment (save the Our Terrible Purpose thing which I have nothing to do with, of course.)

I think the personal grudges against BSmith are very ill placed. I had no idea he was to be banned from The-Frontier.

I mostly moved because of EoE myself. I remain active on both forums.
 
I think the personal grudges against BSmith are very ill placed. I had no idea he was to be banned from The-Frontier.

He wasn't banned outright. He was banned for behavior that the Frontier's owner did not like.
 
This seems to be a kind of tyranny. I hope this does not happen often.

Nah, he brought drama to the Frontier against us himself. There is a reason he posted here, backing down as moderator and admitting fault. How are you so far out of the loop on everything?
 
This measure seemed a bit drastic, but perhaps it's just my habit of going against the majority. But what's done is done.

Who will be in moderating this subforum now, since EQ is still in training?
 
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