Renaissance and Industrial Era

Sarah Starlight

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The main issues are the generalization of Electricity, Combustion, and Railroads. They evolved over 200 years, and you are missing some very big industrial inventions like :

the Battery,
Telephone,(came 30 years after Telepgraph),
Cotton Gin,
Electric Motor (came 80 years before the first car),
Photographic Film (can 90 years after photography)
Journalism
Ironclad Ships,
Elevators/Skyscrapers
microphone
building codes
appliances (they came 100 years before refrigeration)
Cement

Remember that the Industrial Revolution came in two phases:
-Steam Power (Stage I)
-Mass Production/Steel (Stage II)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Industrial_Revolution
The Second Industrial Revolution, also known as the Technological Revolution, was a phase of the larger Industrial Revolution corresponding to the latter half of the 19th century until World War I. It is considered to have begun with Bessemer steel in the 1860s and culminated in mass production and the production line.





Renissance needs:

Electromagnetism
barometer
graphite pencil / quill your choice
Mercator cartography
the study of light and prsims


These are Industrial Era concepts we can use
Standard Units
1662 – Robert Boyle: Boyle's law of ideal gas

1771 – Charles Messier: Publishes catalogue of astronomical objects (Messier Objects) now known to include galaxies, star clusters, and nebulae.

1778 – Antoine Lavoisier (and Joseph Priestley): discovery of oxygen leading to end of Phlogiston theory

1781 – William Herschel announces discovery of Uranus, expanding the known boundaries of the solar system for the first time in modern history

1796 – Georges Cuvier: Establishes extinction as a fact

1830 - Nikolai Lobachevsky created Non-Euclidean geometry

1833 – Anselme Payen isolates first enzyme, diastase

1838 – Matthias Schleiden: all plants are made of cells

1846 – William Morton: discovery of anesthesia

1848 – Lord Kelvin: absolute zero

1865 – Gregor Mendel: Mendel's laws of inheritance, basis for genetics

1869 – Dmitri Mendeleev: Periodic table

1895 – Wilhelm Conrad Röntgen discovers x-rays

1896 – Henri Becquerel discovers radioactivity

1898 - J.J. Thomson proposed the Plum pudding model of an atom

I would add these concepts somehow to Industrial
rename Electricity to Electromagnetism and send it to renaissance
Add:

Electrical Dynamo
Typewriter
Appliances
Individualism
Frontiersman
Light Bulb
Fossil Fuels (1860s)
Manifest Destiny
Gin Argiculture
Fire Extinguisher
Cement
Telephone
Skyscrapers
synthetic fibers
denim
zipper,
ironclad ships
performing Arts
Stage Magic

Baroque music (1600-1750) aka George Frideric Handel,Johann Sebastian Bach, Antonio Vivaldi
Classical music (1750-1820) aka Wolfgang Mozart, Franz Haydn, Franz Schubert
Romantic music (1820-1910) aka Pyotr Tchaikovsky,Frédéric Chopin, Ludwig van Beethoven
Modernism music (1920-2000) aka Igor Stravinsky, Claude Debussy, Arnold Schoenberg

gas turbine
volt battery
smokeless gunpowder
photographic film (after photography)
seismograph (leads to volcanology)
microphone
Phonograph
telephone
Stock Market - 1870
Elevator (or Skyscrapers)
pasteurization
Matches (modern)
Calculator (or mechanical computer)
 

Sarah Starlight

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Electrical Techs i would add in this order

Electromagnetism (William Gilbert -1600)

Electricity -Benjamin Franklin (1752)

Battery - Alessandro Volta (1791)

Electric motor - Michael Faraday (1821)

Electrical Engineering - ( combine Nikola Tesla, Galileo Ferraris, Oliver Heaviside, Thomas Edison, Ottó Bláthy, Ányos Jedlik, Sir Charles Parsons, Joseph Swan, George Westinghouse, Ernst Werner von Siemens, Alexander Graham Bell and Lord Kelvin)
 

Sarah Starlight

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Tech routes

Calculus------>Non-Euclidean geometry--->???

Music---> Baroque Music-->Classical Music -->Romantic music--->Modernism Music --Phonograph---Microphone---->Radio

Gas Turbine -->Fossil Fuels-->electrical motor--->Combustion

Photography--->photographic film-->Photorealism (Digital)

cement-->industrialism-->Skyscraper--->Elevator

Printing Press--->Typewriter

Replaceable Parts--->Appliances--->Consumerism

Electromagnetism--->Electricity ---. Battery---->Electric motor---->Electrical Engineering
 

Acularius

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I can't agree with Electromagnetism, as that was a unification of the electic and magnetic theories by Orsted, (well eventually, a french mathmatician would come up with the proper equation later)
While preparing for an evening lecture on 21 April 1820, Hans Christian Ørsted made a surprising observation. As he was setting up his materials, he noticed a compass needle deflected from magnetic north when the electric current from the battery he was using was switched on and off. This deflection convinced him that magnetic fields radiate from all sides of a wire carrying an electric current, just as light and heat do, and that it confirmed a direct relationship between electricity and magnetism.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism
Further on in the article he would experiment with this.


Electromagnetism (William Gilbert -1600) can't work. As it implies the unification of the electric and magnetic theories, you will have to forgo this until the industrial era. The theory however is REALLY important though, the prime example of the application of this theory is the electric motor.

This unification, which was observed by Michael Faraday, extended by James Clerk Maxwell, and partially reformulated by Oliver Heaviside and Heinrich Hertz, is one of the key accomplishments of 19th century mathematical physics. It had far-reaching consequences, one of which was the understanding of the nature of light. Light and other electromagnetic waves take the form of quantized, self-propagating oscillatory electromagnetic field disturbances called photons. Different frequencies of oscillation give rise to the different forms of electromagnetic radiation, from radio waves at the lowest frequencies, to visible light at intermediate frequencies, to gamma rays at the highest frequencies.

I would probably use, Ányos Jedlik (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor#History_and_development ), for the electric motor since his was not only cost efficient, but did not involve the use of permanent magnets that Faraday's did use in his experiment.

The information checks out with what I remember from my first year Physics classes.

Granted, further improvements were made, but I think the Hungarian was one of the first to go in the right direction for the end product that is quite important today. (DC electric motor for the hungarian physicist, Nikola Tesla patented the first AC motor in '88)

If you want to have some hints into what directions to look at for good techs, I would suggest having a peak at Victoria 2 by Paradox Interactive. Should be a few era relevant techs that you could take a look at and consider adding.
I do think the 'cotton gin' is too specific, but you could probably replace it with something similar. (A more general far reaching tech, than something specific.)

P.S
I'm a big fan of Paradox Interactive games and Victoria 2 is one of my favourites... and I tend to look up things out of curiousity. XD
 

Azurian

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I can't agree with Electromagnetism, as that was a unification of the electic and magnetic theories by Orsted, (well eventually, a french mathmatician would come up with the proper equation later)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism
Further on in the article he would experiment with this.


Electromagnetism (William Gilbert -1600) can't work. As it implies the unification of the electric and magnetic theories, you will have to forgo this until the industrial era. The theory however is REALLY important though, the prime example of the application of this theory is the electric motor.



I would probably use, Ányos Jedlik (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor#History_and_development ), for the electric motor since his was not only cost efficient, but did not involve the use of permanent magnets that Faraday's did use in his experiment.

The information checks out with what I remember from my first year Physics classes.

Granted, further improvements were made, but I think the Hungarian was one of the first to go in the right direction for the end product that is quite important today. (DC electric motor for the hungarian physicist, Nikola Tesla patented the first AC motor in '88)

If you want to have some hints into what directions to look at for good techs, I would suggest having a peak at Victoria 2 by Paradox Interactive. Should be a few era relevant techs that you could take a look at and consider adding.
I do think the 'cotton gin' is too specific, but you could probably replace it with something similar. (A more general far reaching tech, than something specific.)

P.S
I'm a big fan of Paradox Interactive games and Victoria 2 is one of my favourites... and I tend to look up things out of curiousity. XD

I am no expert in Renasiance and Industrial times, but i know the Industrial Revolution came in two parts:

-Industrial Revolution
-Technological Revolution

I think Electromagnetism should be represented in C2C, and Electrical Engineering.

I checked out Victoria 2 and I wonder if the Industrial Era lacked a bit of American frontier and cowboys???
 

ls612

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I checked out Victoria 2 and I wonder if the Industrial Era lacked a bit of American frontier and cowboys???

Well, we have Sheriffs and Bandit units, and a Golden spike wonder, to work on the frontier. The issue may be that by the Industrial Era there isn't much uncolonized space on the map.
 

Acularius

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I am no expert in Renasiance and Industrial times, but i know the Industrial Revolution came in two parts:

-Industrial Revolution
-Technological Revolution

I think Electromagnetism should be represented in C2C, and Electrical Engineering.

I checked out Victoria 2 and I wonder if the Industrial Era lacked a bit of American frontier and cowboys???

The American frontier is donne somewhat differently. No cowboys though. :p
Industrial revolution happened in two parts, but I thought the terms were the 1st and 2nd Industrial Revolutions in which the first dealt with the textile industry and iron, whereas the second was steel and something else... that's all I can recall....
The first was rather restricted to Britain and the lowlands (textile centres of Europe) and the second was generally more widespread, particularily in the newly formed Germany. The Ruhr (?) boom I think it was called.
 

Azurian

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The American frontier is donne somewhat differently. No cowboys though. :p
Industrial revolution happened in two parts, but I thought the terms were the 1st and 2nd Industrial Revolutions in which the first dealt with the textile industry and iron, whereas the second was steel and something else... that's all I can recall....
The first was rather restricted to Britain and the lowlands (textile centres of Europe) and the second was generally more widespread, particularily in the newly formed Germany. The Ruhr (?) boom I think it was called.

and @ls612

I can see this Techs added without a problem, what are your thoughts?

Electrical Enginerring (from Electricity)
Electromagnetism (From Scientific Method)
Ironclad Vessels (From Military Science)
Gin Argiculture (From Electricity)
Appliances (From Replacable Parts)
Skyscraper (from Machine Tools)
Journalism (from Free Artistry)
Synthethic Fibers (from Plastics)
Performing Arts (from Free Artistry)
Calculator (from Calculus)
Astronomical Catalog (can include discovery of uranus and neptune and galaxies)
Fossil Fuels (From Geology)
Classicism [classical music)
Typewriter (from printing press)
Pasteurazation (from Microbiology)
 
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cowboys???

Didn't these only last less that 20 years or just a couple of game turns.

...Sheriffs and Bandit units,

Existed long before the Industrial Era. haven't you read Robin Hood?:mischief:

and @ls612

I can see this Techs added without a problem, what are your thoughts?

Electrical Enginerring (from Electricity)
Electromagnetism (From Scientific Method)
Ironclad Vessels (From Military Science)
Gin Argiculture (From Electricity)
Appliances (From Replacable Parts)
Skyscraper (from Machine Tools)
Journalism (from Free Artistry)
Synthethic Fibers (from Plastics)
Performing Arts (from Free Artistry)
Calculator (from Calculus)
Astronomical Catalog (can include discovery of uranus and neptune and galaxies)
Fossil Fuels (From Geology)
Classicism [classical music)
Typewriter (from printing press)
Pasteurazation (from Microbiology)

I am sorry but I don't see any of these being a tech. Skyscraper is "just" a building and is fine where it is. Synthetic Fibres may be useful as a manufactured resource but I don't see how. Copper and ironclad vessels are already units being usage of steam power the tech.
 

Vokarya

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Didn't these only last less that 20 years or just a couple of game turns.



Existed long before the Industrial Era. haven't you read Robin Hood?:mischief:



I am sorry but I don't see any of these being a tech. Skyscraper is "just" a building and is fine where it is. Synthetic Fibres may be useful as a manufactured resource but I don't see how. Copper and ironclad vessels are already units being usage of steam power the tech.

I agree with most of this. I can support Journalism as a technology, along with maybe Electrical Engineering, to represent separating electricity as a laboratory project from mass use of electricity. I think that the widespread use of electricity comes too early in the Industrial Era, and needs something to push it back.

Also, another note: we have Refining, so I don't think we need a separate Fossil Fuels tech.
 

ls612

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I agree with most of this. I can support Journalism as a technology, along with maybe Electrical Engineering, to represent separating electricity as a laboratory project from mass use of electricity. I think that the widespread use of electricity comes too early in the Industrial Era, and needs something to push it back.

Also, another note: we have Refining, so I don't think we need a separate Fossil Fuels tech.

I agree, only Journalism really qualifies as a tech. The others are good as buildings or units. This is a good example of how many techs can be culled in other eras as well and made into units or buildings.
 

Thunderbrd

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Well, we have Sheriffs and Bandit units, and a Golden spike wonder, to work on the frontier. The issue may be that by the Industrial Era there isn't much uncolonized space on the map.

One of the reasons I wanted the Shotgunner unit was to capture the image of the ol' big-iron on his hip dude.

Here's my take on some of the following:

Electromagnetism (Yeah... I think this needs well researched application but should be considered for inclusion somewhere.)

Gin Argiculture (the cotton gin? yeah, an important and overlooked invention of the era I think. Should represent an improvement to pretty much all plantations that represents a variety of vast improvements to harvesting techniques during the industrial age.)

Appliances (I've often thought this was undersung in Civ as well, but I would've placed it as a post WWII era tech, though there is room for some of this much earlier too, so perhaps its really two different techs. The invention of the superstore like Sears and Roebuck certainly brought home electric appliances and changed a great deal about everyday life for people. What exactly that MEANS in terms of game effects... hmm... certainly improved taxation income, increased birth rate for population, the beginning of a health decline due to the rise of automation replacing exercise from human manpower. More time to accomplish things so an increase in production.)

Journalism (yep... good idea.)

Synthethic Fibers (Another good idea but I'm not sure how to implement it into game effects...)

Astronomical Catalog (can include discovery of uranus and neptune and galaxies)Funny how western civilization didn't know these things until this period when the Sumerians already did back then. Huh... Otherwise, I can see no game effect from these discoveries really, rather they'd be the result of the benefits of other technological gifts such as the observatories themselves.

Typewriter (from printing press) I think this is included in the tech concept of the printing press itself, especially as I can't think of any game effects to go with these.
Pasteurazation (from Microbiology) Probably an important tech actually. Allows longer food storage and increased health as it overcame a lot of rampant health problems at the time.
 

Vokarya

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I also agree with adding Journalism. Could someone please post stats for the tech on where it would fit in the tree?

Here's a sketch. I think Journalism makes for an interesting tech because it's an Industrial tech that does NOT require Steam Power.

Journalism
Cost: 4750
Location: X56 Y19
Req Techs: Photography AND Representative Democracy
Leads to: Telegraph, Women's Suffrage
Allows: Press Agency, Publishing House

Altered Techs
Telegraph
Req Techs: Electricity AND Journalism

Women's Suffrage
Req Techs: Emancipation AND Journalism AND Labor Union

Press Agency would move from Photography to here. Publishing House is a new building that would cover magazines:

Publishing House
Cost: 156
+10% science
+10% culture
+1 happy with Propaganda
(Same stats as Press Agency, except swap the Espionage bonus, defense against Espionage, and War Weariness bonus for +10% science.)
 

Azurian

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One of the reasons I wanted the Shotgunner unit was to capture the image of the ol' big-iron on his hip dude.

Here's my take on some of the following:

lectromagnetism (Yeah... I think this needs well researched application but should be considered for inclusion somewhere.)
or maybe a Physics tech?
Gin Argiculture (the cotton gin? yeah, an important and overlooked invention of the era I think. Should represent an improvement to pretty much all plantations that represents a variety of vast improvements to harvesting techniques during the industrial age.) [/QUOTE]
THIS NEEDS tobe added 100%, maybe arename but the "plantation-gin agriculture" needs to be added

Appliances (I've often thought this was undersung in Civ as well, but I would've placed it as a post WWII era tech, though there is room for some of this much earlier too, so perhaps its really two different techs. The invention of the superstore like Sears and Roebuck certainly brought home electric appliances and changed a great deal about everyday life for people. What exactly that MEANS in terms of game effects... hmm... certainly improved taxation income, increased birth rate for population, the beginning of a health decline due to the rise of automation replacing exercise from human manpower. More time to accomplish things so an increase in production.)
Well maybe after Refrigeration and it can be the 1930s-1950s appliances, i agree on all points.

[QUOTEJournalism (yep... good idea.) [/QUOTE]
100% yes.

Synthethic Fibers (Another good idea but I'm not sure how to implement it into game effects...)
i would move furniture here, and research the tech, i know synthtic fibers changed the fashion and clothing industry.


Astronomical Catalog (can include discovery of uranus and neptune and galaxies)Funny how western civilization didn't know these things until this period when the Sumerians already did back then. Huh... Otherwise, I can see no game effect from these discoveries really, rather they'd be the result of the benefits of other technological gifts such as the observatories themselves.
THEY can all be represented by radio astronomy.

Typewriter (from printing press) I think this is included in the tech concept of the printing press itself, especially as I can't think of any game effects to go with these.
I Kinda agree with you, but maybe it can improve espionage ,( think of those old school detective films, sherlock holmes?) ?


Pasteurazation (from Microbiology) Probably an important tech actually. Allows longer food storage and increased health as it overcame a lot of rampant health problems at the time.
i agree. should be connected with food preservation somehow
 

Vokarya

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Regarding the cotton gin -- we already have Agricultural Engineering. What's so different about the cotton gin that would require its own technology? Agricultural Engineering is in the right spot - just after Medicine. It even provides +1 commerce to Plantations.
 

Thunderbrd

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Regarding the cotton gin -- we already have Agricultural Engineering. What's so different about the cotton gin that would require its own technology? Agricultural Engineering is in the right spot - just after Medicine. It even provides +1 commerce to Plantations.

Fair 'nuff. Does make sense. Except that the invention that revolutionized the south seems to go unmentioned in it all. I guess I find Agricultural Engineering takes on a little too much of a 'generic filler' tech feeling for me. But yeah, if the timing on that tech is about right then it does seem I should simply adapt my perception of the existing tech rather than push for a new one.
 
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