Requests for new components (and features)

Actual Effects for civics is one of the first ideas I had for adding to BUG, but it's just so huge an effort to calculate. Unfortunately, I can't even temporarily change to the civics and do a diff to get the changes without causing all sorts of nonsense. For one, favorite civics bonuses would drop to 1 when it switched back.

In my games I've started becoming more bold with changes. I always put it off for so long to the point where I've lost a lot due to not switching earlier. Now I switch more readily. It's still tough, though, and would be a great addition.
 
Actual Effects for civics is one of the first ideas I had for adding to BUG, but it's just so huge an effort to calculate. Unfortunately, I can't even temporarily change to the civics and do a diff to get the changes without causing all sorts of nonsense. For one, favorite civics bonuses would drop to 1 when it switched back.

In my games I've started becoming more bold with changes. I always put it off for so long to the point where I've lost a lot due to not switching earlier. Now I switch more readily. It's still tough, though, and would be a great addition.

Well I can see 2 major problems (Tell me if there are more)

1.) The Civ4 Civic Screen isn't made to show actual effects. And even if we did show actual effects, all the other mods that use a different civic screen (Basically ever mod abandonded the Civ4 screen. I personally hate it. StrategyOnly*cough*..Your Civic screen is much better.) So you would need to make a new or at least adapt an existing civic screen.

2.) Calculation. Lots of them. At least they would only be called when a player opens the civic screen, eh?

I have an idea on how to display it. Perhaps all the actual effects could hovers? So when I hover over 10% more gold in all cities, it says "Actual Effect" +33 gold/turn.
 
Displaying the information wouldn't be too hard. You could so as you suggest or what we discussed in this thread a ways back: show the total actual effects of all current civic changes. This would allow you to select two or more civics to be changed at once and see the combined effects at the bottom of the screen.

-28:), +43:hammers:, +18:commerce:, +5.27:gold:, +13.32:science:, +59.83:culture:

Building Actual Effects weren't that hard to code because the effects of buildings that I included were fairly isolated: yield/commerce/trade rate/modifier changes. Maybe it wouldn't be that hard to do the civics. The real problem would be all the mods that add their own types of effects.
 
Displaying the information wouldn't be too hard. You could so as you suggest or what we discussed in this thread a ways back: show the total actual effects of all current civic changes. This would allow you to select two or more civics to be changed at once and see the combined effects at the bottom of the screen.
+43:hammers:, +18:commerce:, +5.27:gold:, +13.32:science:, +59.83:culture:

How about both? So I can see what one individual modifier changes, and the overall...
 
How about both? So I can see what one individual modifier changes, and the overall...

Well, sure. But my point is that deciding how to display the values is trivial compared to calculating them.
 
Well, sure. But my point is that deciding how to display the values is trivial compared to calculating them.

Well, the game already calculates them.Couldn't you just hijack a few of the functions that process civics? Or is it more complicated than that?
 
The problem is the way that the game calculates things. All of the processFoo() functions apply the changes of the given Foo. For example, processBuilding() calls changeBaseYieldRate() if the building supplies any yields such as the +1:food: for the Supermarket. There's no function that calculates the effect only without applying it to the city.
 
The problem is the way that the game calculates things. All of the processFoo() functions apply the changes of the given Foo. For example, processBuilding() calls changeBaseYieldRate() if the building supplies any yields such as the +1:food: for the Supermarket. There's no function that calculates the effect only without applying it to the city.

Can't you break it apart then? Have one function calculate the effect, the other apply it to each city?
 
Sure, with enough time and $$ I could do anything! :rolleyes: Seriously, it would be a huge, error-prone effort. And it wouldn't be as easy as splitting the functions either. Take a look at processCivics() for a good idea of how tough it would be.
 
Sure, with enough time and $$ I could do anything! :rolleyes: Seriously, it would be a huge, error-prone effort. And it wouldn't be as easy as splitting the functions either. Take a look at processCivics() for a good idea of how tough it would be.

Hehe. That sounds exactly like what one of my posts over RoM forums to a feature request sounded like...

The problem is that good ideas are a dime a dozen, but skilled programmers cost 55+ grand a year. ;)
 
Alright, i've been using your BUG stuff extensively lately... and, i'd have a few suggestions if you don't mind me asking;

1-- CustomAdv screens could use the ProjectsCLASS (Manhattan & SDI & Internet & Apollo, at least) shortcuts too, since we already have the Wonders & Nationals... why stop there!?

2-- Some "Advisors" screens could also be enhanced with an extra *Totals* line at the bottom; nothing fancy, just the cumulative amounts of all cities for features such as... Research, Gold & Production, etc. In fact, this 'option' would also openup a few more interesting aspects of global managing with other important things. I'll let you figure out which. ;)

3-- The Religion screen framework is off-shoot in size & location on the 1680x1050 interface i'm using (possibly why, calibration or somethin'). I was able to lower the height of the second panel (to fix the overlapping box on the bottom strip) but, i can't see how the X,Y start values won't adapt to any new settings i tried to alter.

4-- The right side Buttons_Info Row "overlaps" the spire(s) and most of the time, the boxes above aren't wide enough to contain text & clock, etc. Could this be reframed to widen the area? I don't think the current bars (Mil, GP) would suffer from having a tighter squeeze from those either.


Aside from these four little annoyances, i'm mostly satisfied with everything offered... but, i'd also recommend a true formal Interface specific to BUG too -- which i've been working on already, in fact. Basicly, the theme is generally sortof "Dark GREYlike" with all the cursors & most selecting assets (boxes, radio, checks) glow "REDdish" to tie it all with the BUG itself! It really deserves a special flavor interface, AFAIC.

I'll return here later to pack a zip of a few things for you.

In the meantime, many thanks for this most excellent addon to a wonderful game by Firaxis.

NB; There's also my pet-peeve request which i doubt you'd want integrated in BUG... but, i can always ask (again!); pre-selection options of starting Traits & Techs (even flags, colors, UU, UB, etc) for the Custom-Game setting phase.
 
1-- CustomAdv screens could use the ProjectsCLASS (Manhattan & SDI & Internet & Apollo, at least) shortcuts too.

I don't understand what you mean here. Are you asking for new pages (drop down in the bottom-left of the screen) specific to projects or are you talking about having new project columns across the top? One problem with projects is that while they are built in cities they are no longer tied to cities once built. There's no way to find out where it was built later. We could show where they are being built, of course.

2-- Some "Advisors" screens could also be enhanced with an extra *Totals* line at the bottom.

Other than the CDA, I can't think of other places where totals would fit in. The Religion Advisor already shows the totals for things that matter. Where else?

One problem with totals is that they frequently require an extra digit than the individual values, requiring wider columns and thus fewer columns. You play at 1680, so you won't notice the difference. But those of us that play at 1024 certainly will. :(

3-- The Religion screen framework is off-shoot in size & location on the 1680x1050 interface.

I'll take a look at this as it should certainly be centered on all resolutions.

4-- The right side Buttons_Info Row "overlaps" the spire(s).

This is a fix in 3.19 that we missed. It's high time we fixed that top area--I just hate to squeeze in the GG and GP bars any more than they are (they are too short in 1024 x768 as it is).

i'd also recommend a true formal Interface specific to BUG too -- which i've been working on already, in fact. Basicly, the theme is generally sortof "Dark GREYlike" with all the cursors & most selecting assets (boxes, radio, checks) glow "REDdish" to tie it all with the BUG itself! It really deserves a special flavor interface, AFAIC.

I look forward to your theme. The main reason I've put off using a theme (we'd get cooler buttons as well) is that installing to CustomAssets would require putting the theme files into the BTS folder itself and modifying BTS's core theme. I'm always wary of doing this, but this is how BlueMarble works so people obviously don't care (or rather don't know). :)
 
1-- We could show where they are being built, of course.... that'd be cool enough for me! As long as the column
is there for us to use, it'd at least be shown. It's just that sometimes, having to cycle through all cities
(blame a weakness in personal short-term memory!!) only to find out if & where *MY* Internet is being done... is "annoying".

2-- But those of us that play at 1024 certainly will.... sorry, i didn't realize this sort of "fine-tuning" might interfere
with somebody's current settings and yet, i don't see what stops anyone from creating *NEW* screen(s) which would exploit
such a feature. The only possible advantage this may have is that i'd actually know how *big* the totals are for
Beakers & Hammers as an example. No rush, if you feel it may somehow be useful to anyone, just think about it for awhile.

3-- ...it should certainly be centered on all resolutions.... this isn't "exactly" what i meant. Sorry for being misleading.
Lemme try again; the screen itself is centered and well behaved. It's just that the two panels seem to fit toooooo tight in the
available framework and thus, the bottom one shows over the bottom bar. I have a new CvReligionScreen.py file
where the height solves this issue and the top bar was X'ed at -5 to provide room for the aesthetically right "volume space"
for both panels. Have a look at it in the zip attachment below, along with some other stuff that you may find interesting!

4-- It's high time we fixed that top area... by all means!

5-- I look forward to your theme.... speaking of which, here's a quick teasing peek at what i have done so far.



Duh -- sorry for such w_i_d_e stuff -- but, that's how it shows in my games! :D

Thanks.
 

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3-- ...it should certainly be centered on all resolutions.... this isn't "exactly" what i meant. Sorry for being misleading.
Lemme try again; the screen itself is centered and well behaved. It's just that the two panels seem to fit toooooo tight in the
available framework and thus, the bottom one shows over the bottom bar. I have a new CvReligionScreen.py file
where the height solves this issue and the top bar was X'ed at -5 to provide room for the aesthetically right "volume space"
for both panels. Have a look at it in the zip attachment below, along with some other stuff that you may find interesting!
The panel overlap wasn't there when we first released the BUG F7 screen. It crept in when we enhanced it to cater for more than 7 religions (horizontal sliders). I've been meaning to go back and fix it.
 
This is a BULL request, so I suppose it goes here.

When players adopt a vassal, the AI's relationship for the master becomes the Master + Vassal's diplomatic relationship. However, it doesn't show this change to the player, so one could think they are best friends with all the AI's and really be enemies. Therefore, a new diplomatic +/- and text should be shown, like "We (Dis)Like Your Team Member(s)"

Now, to convince you it is UG-worthy.

I could go and ask the AI what they think of my vassals, then using that to figure out roughly what they think of me overall already. This would just be exposing it to the player in detail. More info == good, correct?
 
I've been thinking on the best way to display this information.

One option is a "Show actual attitude" checkbox in BUG that will take vassals into account and always show the real attitude. This is UG because it's a simple average of all the attitude levels (the adjectives) toward you and your vassals.

With that, it would be helpful in BULL to add the attitude toward you alone when you have vassals (only when it differs) to the leaderhead hover text. This isn't really necessary for the game, but players might want to know it anyway. Here I could add another "Show actual attitude" as well in case people have the one in BUG turned off or aren't using BUG.

I just need to make sure I take into account the possibility that a player may not know all of the rival's vassals. If you meet a player with vassals you haven't met, are they exposed to you somehow? Same for the reverse: you meet a vassal but not its master; can you tell they are a vassal?

I know that you meet all members of a team once you meet one, but vassals aren't teammates so I'm not sure about this one. I seem to recall meeting a rival and instantly meeting his vassal even though I couldn't see his land or units.
 
The rule is: meet vassal, meet master ; meet master , meet vassal . Simple and neat ;)

P.S And if a known civ becomes a master/vassal of a unknown civ, you meet the unknown civ ASAP . Also, and somewhat related to this, you meet all the members of the diplo councils as long as you are in them ( not a issue in the UN :D , but it happens sometimes with the AP )
 
@ afforess:
i post it by myself here ;)

(...)

in the city screen, u can automate ur citizens by using the governor. this option can be specialized with some etra buttons to make the governor focus on production, trade, etc etc. so far..... the feature i want is, to lock one or more specialists in place (or even field/mine workers in cityscreen), while the governor is still activated. that means, i want to exclude some of the specalists i want from automated placement. But automated placement for all other citizens should stay active

the reason for this request is simple: i like the great engineer, because of his ability to rush wonders. but sometimes (especially when angkor wat was built) the governor doesn't like to establish an engineer as specialist. and i (me, the player) don't like to manage every city always by myself, just to verify i have an engineer in the city.

what do u think?

regards
lc

For instance, to see if I understand you correctly, you'd like to say... Control-Right click on a specialist and "lock" it into place, so that the city governor can't change the specialist?

 
...(we'd get cooler buttons as well) is that installing to CustomAssets would require putting the theme files into the BTS folder itself and modifying BTS's core theme.

About these Buttons (PLE & RY)... i've tried to make some new ones (zipped & attached below), but since the currently allocated calibration of Icon sizes & locations "reduces" how they show up on the UI (from true 32x32 to a somehow limited 28x28!) -- they are simply shaved off so that the bevelling effects vanish. I wonder if this can be fixed too; i've looked into a few py files to find where that "flaw" occurs but no luck. Could you look into that?

DXT3 formatting also made a huge mess of these images, so i opted for 32bit-A8's. Hope there's no particular conflict there with presumed standards.

As for theming BUG, i believe it's rather easy to implement simply through proper editing of the Civ4.thm & CIV4ArtDefines_Misc.xml files to account for the newly installed path. In our case, straight into the mod/BUG folder as a specific "Resource_GREY" source directory. It works perfectly on my end anyway in such a setup schema.

More to come later... :)
 

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I've been meaning to go back and fix it.

As i said earlier, go right ahead!

There are a number of other small_even_probably_unimportant issues with the UI (silly me and my perfectionist mental condition!) but if i haven't got time to extrapolate further. I'll gather up some notes on these for you and submit my observations once ready.

Just one off the tip of my head is the "extremely" annoying lack of *Regenerate Map Button* (on the usual Game_Options menu) in between reloads or even within a minimal number of turns. But, this may be code-based and not a true BUG team task to tackle. That's one keyfix i'd like to be looked over though... so if anyone at Firaxis is watching this thread -- by all means, too!
 
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