Returning Civs - Elimination Thread

Assyria - 17
Babylon - 14
Byzantium - 17
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 4
Iroquois - 18
Maya - 30
Morocco - 21 (24-3) I really want it in the game, but its score is too high, I do not think this is as necessary to the game as Ethiopia and more than Portugal.
Portugal - 23 (22+1) Not only a naval power, but it was what started the era of navigation, besides being one of the largest overseas empires in history.

 

I need to vote a bit earlier today (trying to keep it 17.00 GMT -3/+3)

Disclaimer, I'm Portuguese. Does that affect my interest in a Portuguese Civ? Yes. However, it does so in an indirect way. I'm not much inclined to nationalist or patriotic feelings, so it's not a matter of wanting Portugal for the sake of it. BUT I have nevertheless been culturally educated to enjoy the history and tales of naval exploration, so that it now affects the kind of Civs I most enjoy playing with. Unsurprisingly I like Phoenicia a lot.

So here's my rebuttal of the too many European naval civs argument:

England - Naval Militaristic. Dominate the seas through high production and naval military prowess.
Norway - Naval Militaristic. Focused towards early raids and general Viking shenanigans.
Spain - Naval and Religious Expansionism. Spain is directed at expanding both their territory and their religion in other continents.

Phoenicia - Naval Trade. This is the only European Civ directed at Naval Trade and Coastal Expansion that comes close to some of the mechanics in a potential Portugal Civ. However, Phoenicia's abilities are heavily focused towards expansion in their own continent.
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A Portugal Civ MUST relate in some way to Luxury Resources, something none of these Civs offer. Extra Gold from Trade Routes fits Spain, but not Portugal. The period of high gold revenue from Brazil occurs two centuries later, and it would be a waste if Portugal were to focus on that period (I'm sure it would be fine for a modded Civ/Leader, but not an official one). As always, Portugal must relate to global naval trade. Such a civ might include:

- Afonso de Albuquerque as unique Governor (easily the most crucial figure in Portuguese History, along with Marquis de Pombal. He built the empire in the East almost single-handed. It's a shame Da Gama takes the limelight);
- Quicker Acquisition of Great Admirals; Ships within a Portuguese Great Admiral range ignore closed borders. When declaring surprise war, do not expel ships outside border limits;
- Great Admirals remove Loyalty Penalties within a certain range;
- Any ship within Great Admiral range may enter Ocean;
- May use Caravels (or a new unit) to settle Feitorias in foreign continents. Feitorias give automatic access to a copy of any Luxury Resource within 3 tiles without requiring improvement. Feitorias must complete a project to become Cities. Before that their population is either capped or increases very slowly. May only be built on the coast. Feitorias have defensive walls equivalent to Medieval Walls.
- Defensive bonuses to ships stationed in Feitorias;
- City Attack bonuses to ships when attacking coastal cities in foreign continents;
- Sea Routes between the Portuguese Capital and any city on a different continent have unlimited/double trade range.
- Caravels may be converted to trade units.

These are some basic ideas. As you see there's plenty of space, but it must be done in such a way that the only viable strategy for Portugal is to obsessively seek coast in foreign continents, seeking its luxury resources, while also being a constant Piracy threat (much like barbarians) to any Civ with coast in foreign continents.
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My votes:

Assyria - 18 (17 +1)
Babylon - 11 (14 - 3) I want another Mesopotamian Civ and it's not acceptable Assyria has only ever been in one other Civ game. It also has a lot more design space and doesn't really overlap with Sumer.
Byzantium - 17
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 4
Iroquois - 18
Maya - 30
Morocco - 21
Portugal - 23

Edited: Included Xandinho's vote

 

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 11
Byzantium - 17
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 4+1=5. Not quite at the stage where I think all the other civs left are as good or better choices.
Iroquois - 18-3=15. If the Cree weren't in the game I'd support them but if we get 1 more North American native civ there are better choices I think.
Maya - 30
Morocco - 21
Portugal - 23

edit: amended to take account of Xandinho and AntSou's votes.

 

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 12 = 11+1 Throwin it another bone because I hope it makes it to the top 5 (probably not though), but top 8 at least
Byzantium - 17
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 5
Iroquois - 12 = 15-3 I'm sorry Iroquois. I want you to come back, but maybe we can make a new discovery instead?
Maya - 30
Morocco - 21
Portugal - 23

 

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 12
Byzantium - 17
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 2 (5-2) It is getting difficult to downvote someone. I prefer that the Hittites be voted off first.
Iroquois - 13 (12+1) Very strong native Civ. Deserves another go.
Maya - 30
Morocco - 21
Portugal - 23

 

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 12
Byzantium - 14 (17 - 3) A continuation of a civ already in the game. This is exactly that the current multi-leader mechanic is geared towards.
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 2
Iroquois - 14 (13 +1) An excellent choice to help remedy the game's dearth of (non colonial) North American civs. Lots of potential for diplomacy related abilities that wasn't explored in Civ V.
Maya - 30
Morocco - 21
Portugal - 23

 

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 12+1=13 In a game with Athens, Sparta and Macedon, we can afford the full complement of Mesopotamian civs.
Byzantium - 14
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 2-2=0 I’d like to see them again, but they’re not in the top 5.
Iroquois - 14
Maya - 30
Morocco - 21
Portugal - 23

 

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 13+1=14 Should be in Top7
Byzantium - 14
Ethiopia - 24
Iroquois - 14
Maya - 30
Morocco - 21
Portugal - 23-3=20 They had a good run but competition is tough now

 

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 15 (14 + 1) - If nothing else, they're going to have the most combined positive and negative votes
Byzantium - 14
Ethiopia - 24
Iroquois - 14
Maya - 30
Morocco - 18 (21 - 3) - Would make a great addition to the game, but the most overrated relative to the rest of the list
Portugal - 20

 

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 15
Byzantium - 14
Ethiopia - 21 (24 - 3) I didn't care for their Civ 5 iteration. I generally dislike pure warmonger civilizations that don't (meaningfully) incorporate some other aspect of gameplay into how they're used and the CiV Ethiopia felt incredibly reactive to me. It is among the civs in the current running that I have the least personal interest in.
Maya - 30
Morocco - 18
Portugal - 21 (20 + 1) I'm going to give Portugal the benefit of the doubt here. It isn't my top choice out of the current list and I think it has some serious design challenges to overcome if it were to be reintroduced in Civ6, but I feel like there is a design seed in there somewhere. Provided, it needs to carve out a mechanical identity for itself. First of all, it has to compete with two big colonial powers in Spain and England. Given the Industrial focus of England and the Religious focus of Spain make me think its theoretically possible, if it focuses on Exploration and Trade. That said, it also needs to navigate around the other naval and trade civilizations which could prove difficult, but as with my stance with Venice if it were to leverage the additions of a hypothetical third expansion I think it might yield an interesting civ. I think I'm more interested in the theory than its actual inclusion, but it still gets my vote this time.

 

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 15
Byzantium - 15 (14+1) I like them. I also would like a scenario involved they're fall or reverse thing
Ethiopia - 18 (21-3) we need new civ from africa like Madagascar.
Iroquois - 14
Maya - 30
Morocco - 18
Portugal - 20

 

Assyria - 17
Babylon - 14+1=15 I don't get why it doesnt fit Civ 6 thesis. Also inlcusion of Armenia without Babylon first is one of the worst Ideas I've ever heard. TSL Might be a problem, but civ 3 and civ 4 already had both Sumeria and Babylon.
Byzantium - 17-3=14 We all know that byzantium is great, but with inclusion of Georgia the Anatolia civs already have almost no room to expand on TSL maps. Same thing applies to Hittites, but I still prefer them than artificial country created only to make Rome survive.
Ethiopia - 24
Hittites - 4
Iroquois - 18
Maya - 30
Morocco - 24
Portugal - 22

 

Looks like there’s been a cross-post. Someone will need to correct the numbers.

 

Fixed numbers.

Assyria - 18
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 12
Ethiopia - 18+1=19 Should be a staple African Civ at this point. Some of the first traces of civilizations from Sub-Saharan Africa comes from that area.
Iroquois - 14
Maya - 30
Morocco - 18-3=15. Not interested in them as much as the others and doesn't need to return.
Portugal - 21

 

Assyria - 19 (18 + 1) Same argument I already gave.
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 9 (12 - 3) Of the ones remaining, I could live without Byzantium.
Ethiopia - 19
Iroquois - 14
Maya - 30
Morocco - 15
Portugal - 21

 

Assyria - 19
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 9+1=10. Any of those left I'd be content to see again but after the Maya the Byzzies would be my favourite.
Ethiopia - 19
Iroquois - 14
Maya - 30
Morocco - 15
Portugal - 21-3=18. Geographically and thematically squeezed.

 

Assyria - 19
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 10
Ethiopia - 20 (19+1) One of the most enduring civilizations in existence, deserves to be in the game more than some of this list. In addition, we already have new names in Africa: Kongo and Nubia. Ethiopia must be a staple.
Iroquois - 11 (14-3) It does not interest me so much as the others. I'd rather have something from the American Southwestern at this point.
Maya - 30
Morocco - 15
Portugal - 18

 

Assyria - 19
Babylon - 16
Byzantium - 11 = (10+1) Byzantophile ACTIVATE. Defend Constantinople!
Ethiopia - 20
Iroquois - 8 = (11-3) Actually, I agree with the above. We've never had a Native American tribe near the West Coast of the continental US, so why not take the opportunity this time for some geographic variation there? American Southwest, Klamath, PNW, all sorts of alternatives we could use. Sorry, Iroquois. I still would love for you to be in as well.
Maya - 30
Morocco - 15
Portugal - 18

 

Assyria - 19
Babylon - 13 (16 - 3) - Doesn't fit VI's thesis. Also I would prefer Armenia.
Byzantium - 11
Ethiopia - 20
Iroquois - 8
Maya - 30
Morocco - 16 (15 + 1) - Still the only remaining civ besides the Maya that I would really want to see return (since it seems quite likely that Portugal, Byzantium, and Ethiopia will show up in some form).
Portugal - 18

 

@Krajzen I'd like to thank you for your very compelling and well-worded argument for Byzantium. I certainly agree with the points you made though, in my defense, I suspect that many of the civilizations in this game changed quite drastically from era to era in some cases. Let's also remember that the Roman Empire wasn't pagan all the way to the fall of its western half, I thought Christianity became the official religion of the empire in the early 300s under Constantine. It's not the same as Greek Orthodoxy, but it does show that there was a transitional period between the paganism of the republic and early empire to the Greek Orthodoxy of the later empire. With all that said, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Byzantium be it's own thing if we had the room but choices do have to be made.

Assyria - 19
Babylon - 13
Byzantium - 11 - 3 = 8 As much as I'd like to see them and as cool and different as it is from the earlier periods, I still see it fitting better as an alternate leader for Rome (as long as the leader ability gets a lot of bonuses, a UU, etc.). Tough choices have to be made here and this civ is the only 1 I see as capable of being an alternate leader for an existing civ (unless someone here would like to somehow persuade me that Portugal should be seen as an extension of Spain, etc. Good luck with that.).
Ethiopia - 20
Iroquois - 8 + 1 = 9 While I'd probably prefer to see a notable western group like the Tlingit and Hopi, the Iroqouis' relative unity and gameplay possibilities shouldn't be overlooked easily. Also, native NA could use a bit more love.
Maya - 30
Morocco - 16
Portugal - 18