Civciv5
Grand Emperor
Is revenge justified?
Or do you think forgiveness is better?
Or do you think forgiveness is better?
Revenge and Forgiveness
- Thread starter Civciv5
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Narz
keeping it real
Most forgiveness seems phony to me. I'm not sure I've ever really forgiven anyone. Eventually experiences become less intense & I mostly forget. I don't think I ever really forgive though.
Revenge doesn't generally accomplish much either though. Mostly I just try to avoid f-ed up people who'd give me the opportunity to have to deal with the question you pose.
In personal life, as well as most aspects of life, preventing such dilemmas before they arise is the best course of action.
If you must recieve an answer I'll say forgiveness is probably best for your long term health (resentment & hatred tends to be bad for well being) but revenge probably grants more satisfaction in the short term.
Again, I prefer option C. Getting wise & avoiding the dilemma altogether as best I can.
Revenge doesn't generally accomplish much either though. Mostly I just try to avoid f-ed up people who'd give me the opportunity to have to deal with the question you pose.
In personal life, as well as most aspects of life, preventing such dilemmas before they arise is the best course of action.
If you must recieve an answer I'll say forgiveness is probably best for your long term health (resentment & hatred tends to be bad for well being) but revenge probably grants more satisfaction in the short term.
Again, I prefer option C. Getting wise & avoiding the dilemma altogether as best I can.
I understand not being able to forgive someone. That's life. Sometimes people do unforgivable things and our own emotions don't allow for it.
It doesn't change the fact that revenge is a waste of energy.
"Don't get mad, don't get even, get ahead."
It doesn't change the fact that revenge is a waste of energy.
"Don't get mad, don't get even, get ahead."
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I'm far too lazy for revenge. If you're close enough I might kick you in the balls but that's about it.
Well, i used to not forgive anyone, but it was a very bad stance. So i came to actually forgive. It was not easy. I still have not forgiven all, but what fuels me is the knowledge that i feel better after forgiving people, because i get rid of unhealthy anger.
Still, i won't lie, i am disgusted by trolls
Still, i won't lie, i am disgusted by trolls
Save_Ferris
Admiring Myself
Revenge is only fun in movies.
Revenge may be justified.
It is also evil however, evil in the sense that one feel joy and satisfaction from hurting someone (and from the fact that it's premeditated). That still applies no matter how justified it may be. While we often ask ourselves if something we did or say was evil, there should be no doubt when revenge is enacted. It's pure evil - but may be very justified and fair at the same time.
It is also evil however, evil in the sense that one feel joy and satisfaction from hurting someone (and from the fact that it's premeditated). That still applies no matter how justified it may be. While we often ask ourselves if something we did or say was evil, there should be no doubt when revenge is enacted. It's pure evil - but may be very justified and fair at the same time.
Forgiveness benefits the forgiver more than the forgiven.
Revenge gives away any potential benefits.
So it's a simple choice: benefit or not?
Revenge gives away any potential benefits.
So it's a simple choice: benefit or not?
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Revenge is, in itself, an absurd, even obscene concept. The idea that some moral balance is achieved by the further meting out of harm is a dangerous nonsense, a crude attempt to articulate what is very much a personal desire in terms of universal justice. I would go so far as to say that it can't be meaningfully considered right or wrong, because that would lend it a coherence which, outside of some more elaborate philosophical model, it basically lacks.
Doesn't mean that I'm 100% in favour of forgiveness, though, just that I'm sceptical of the supposed dichotomy. Sometimes what might be construed as "revenge" is necessary in preventing further damaging being done, directly or indirectly. It didn't bring back any dead Jews when Sholom Schwartzbard opened up a few extra holes in Symon Petliura, but it was one of those things that simply needed to be done for the sake of those still around.
Doesn't mean that I'm 100% in favour of forgiveness, though, just that I'm sceptical of the supposed dichotomy. Sometimes what might be construed as "revenge" is necessary in preventing further damaging being done, directly or indirectly. It didn't bring back any dead Jews when Sholom Schwartzbard opened up a few extra holes in Symon Petliura, but it was one of those things that simply needed to be done for the sake of those still around.
What about revenge as reaction, and as momentary liberation of anger?
After all anger itself is said to be a process that exists exactly so that you can think "if i had harmed that person he would not have had the chance to harm me". But of course it takes place after you are harmed, so logic steps in and you don't act upon hateful urges. With time, and relevant thoughts, one may negate much of his negative thoughts anyway.
NickyJ
Retired Narrator
Always forgive, but never forget.
Sometimes forgiveness is revenge, because the other person doesn't know what to do with it.
Personally, I rarely forgive and I never forget. Some people I've forgiven have turned around and betrayed me again. Fine - they've used up their chances. No forgiveness, no forgetting. They are, as the saying goes, "dead to me."
If somebody says they forgive me because their religion says they should, I distrust their sincerity. If I forgive somebody, it's because my conscience tells me it's the right thing to do, not because some religious book or preacher tells me to so I'll get some kind of reward after I'm dead. To me that's not unconditional forgiveness, since the one doing the "forgiving" has an ulterior motive.
Personally, I rarely forgive and I never forget. Some people I've forgiven have turned around and betrayed me again. Fine - they've used up their chances. No forgiveness, no forgetting. They are, as the saying goes, "dead to me."
If somebody says they forgive me because their religion says they should, I distrust their sincerity. If I forgive somebody, it's because my conscience tells me it's the right thing to do, not because some religious book or preacher tells me to so I'll get some kind of reward after I'm dead. To me that's not unconditional forgiveness, since the one doing the "forgiving" has an ulterior motive.
Shaihulud
Deity
Technically an act of vengeance, or revenge should not be considered an act of justice. revenge can be very satisfying, but im at the stage of my life when I consider forgiveness to be a higher value.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Some crimes cannot be forgiven. Imagine someone slaughters your family and/or friends in cold blood, and then goes unpunished. Would anyone in his or her right mind forgive such a person? It seems to me that revenge in such cases is perfectly just and moral thing to pursue.
Forgiveness is a nice thing, but you shouldn't overdo it.
EDIT: BTW, in case someone construes this as an argument for death penalty, I believe in revenge that you deliver personally.
Forgiveness is a nice thing, but you shouldn't overdo it.
EDIT: BTW, in case someone construes this as an argument for death penalty, I believe in revenge that you deliver personally.
That's not very Christlike.
I feel bad for you guys who have never really forgiven anybody. It's very cathartic.
civ2
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2004
- Messages
- 1,650
There is forgiveness.
There is revenge.
There is JUSTICE that ignores BOTH.
True justice isn't about revenge - the culprit usually knows the law before he does the wrong thing.
True justice ignores forgiveness too - cause the law is devoid of moral issues.
True justice must compare actions done to actions that should've been done - and in case of incompatibility, provide the adequate result.
ALL THIS is about "secular" law - where the moral part is either hidden or irrelevant.
"Religious" law is sometimes different - but I won't discuss it here, cause we'd talk about different things.
The third one - the "social" law - is what was probably implied by this thread.
So I'd say on that:
Revenge is BAD and USELESS - be good to others, forgive them (if it doesn't lead to financial consequences, where you can sue them justifiably) and you shall see more PEACE.
There is revenge.
There is JUSTICE that ignores BOTH.
True justice isn't about revenge - the culprit usually knows the law before he does the wrong thing.
True justice ignores forgiveness too - cause the law is devoid of moral issues.
True justice must compare actions done to actions that should've been done - and in case of incompatibility, provide the adequate result.
ALL THIS is about "secular" law - where the moral part is either hidden or irrelevant.
"Religious" law is sometimes different - but I won't discuss it here, cause we'd talk about different things.
The third one - the "social" law - is what was probably implied by this thread.
So I'd say on that:
Revenge is BAD and USELESS - be good to others, forgive them (if it doesn't lead to financial consequences, where you can sue them justifiably) and you shall see more PEACE.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I would totally take revenge on one of my bullies from grade 7.
That's pretty much it though.. I don't think I've ever *actually* plotted revenge against someone.. Have forgiven a bunch of people though.
So yeah, forgiveness is good, revenge is bad.. BUT.. if your name is Nestor, watch out
That's pretty much it though.. I don't think I've ever *actually* plotted revenge against someone.. Have forgiven a bunch of people though.
So yeah, forgiveness is good, revenge is bad.. BUT.. if your name is Nestor, watch out
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