I'm no deity player, but before going for Stalin you need to figure an easy way to feudalism first. I'm thinking stealing that from Stalin with all the bonuses you have so alpha + CoL are the next critical techs I would choose. After alpha, I would just shut my research down to 0% until this continent is done and tell Stalin what to research then steal -> steal -> steal. I would also probably give a bunch of cities back to him for better research rate but careful not to brake free. good luck with your game, very curious what;s happening in the other continent. Sal did a good job in taking most of early good wonders + shrine for you which is a very nice boost
Rhino - Deity Hatty - Random Personalities
- Thread starter OneLeggedRhino
- Start date
OneLeggedRhino
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Thanks dimatud. That's basically my plan, except for 2 things:
1. You want to self-tech cheap techs, rather than risk the spy getting caught.
2. You don't want to shut down research usually, especially when you have Representation so spy specialists can serve double-duty. Once you're making enough EPs to steal, you want to also tech your critical path, which for me will probably be to Astronomy.
1. You want to self-tech cheap techs, rather than risk the spy getting caught.
2. You don't want to shut down research usually, especially when you have Representation so spy specialists can serve double-duty. Once you're making enough EPs to steal, you want to also tech your critical path, which for me will probably be to Astronomy.
Although i somewhat understand the discontent obsolete usually provides with his comments, it's also worth pointing out that he
1. brings those topics up for a reason
2. that those comments, even if they might not seem helpful in the first place, still encourage people to get into the mechanics more deeply.
Let's not forget that he has a pretty deep insight about the game works, so even if you have to pick his comments up with a grain of salt, you can usually actually learn something out of them if you're willing to use your brain. Yes, it'd be great if he'd provide all the information himself, but that doesn't make his comments useless.
Okay, now over to another topic...
Calendar! Very important! Will give you quite a bit happiness, and also food. Other than that, towards Lib asap i'd say... CoL first, then MC, CS and towards Lib.
1. brings those topics up for a reason
2. that those comments, even if they might not seem helpful in the first place, still encourage people to get into the mechanics more deeply.
Let's not forget that he has a pretty deep insight about the game works, so even if you have to pick his comments up with a grain of salt, you can usually actually learn something out of them if you're willing to use your brain. Yes, it'd be great if he'd provide all the information himself, but that doesn't make his comments useless.
Okay, now over to another topic...
Calendar! Very important! Will give you quite a bit happiness, and also food. Other than that, towards Lib asap i'd say... CoL first, then MC, CS and towards Lib.
OneLeggedRhino
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Good point about Calendar.
Do you think I can still win Lib? I figure I'm so behind in tech now that it's not worth shooting for, and was going to aim to bulb Astronomy and start conquering other continents.
Do you think I can still win Lib? I figure I'm so behind in tech now that it's not worth shooting for, and was going to aim to bulb Astronomy and start conquering other continents.
MyOtherName
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But like in Civ 4, it's not about the benefit, but whether it's worth the cost. There are several knowledgeable posters here that can glean the same insight from without having to deal with the hatefulness.
I would play a builder set or two. While any new cities you conquer would be net contributors pretty much immediately, I would expect better net contributions from getting some critical econ. techs and a bit of infrastructure.
I don't know if I'd swap to espionage-based research though. Stalin is teching very slowly (only a bit faster than you!). Shaka is an inconvenient tech-stealing target, and any other AIs are going to be on a whole different continent. I think you want to work on getting commerce and research infrastructure going, because this is looking like a good game to rely more on cottages.
Side note one, regarding game mechanics:
About half the AIs won't plan war against you at Pleased (and none at Friendly). However, some of them can be bribed to war even after they won't plan a war themselves; Cathy (and only Cathy) can be bribed to attack you at Friendly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been my understanding that even Cathy won't independently start planning a war at Friendly.
There are other ways they can end up at war with you; the common one is peacevassaling. They will accept a peacevassal even if that person is currently at war with someone they have Friendly diplo. relations with, and immediately be dragged into the war.
Side note two: Can anyone interested in debating the merits of another poster's tone of comment please take that elsewhere and stop cluttering up this thread?
I don't know if I'd swap to espionage-based research though. Stalin is teching very slowly (only a bit faster than you!). Shaka is an inconvenient tech-stealing target, and any other AIs are going to be on a whole different continent. I think you want to work on getting commerce and research infrastructure going, because this is looking like a good game to rely more on cottages.
Side note one, regarding game mechanics:
About half the AIs won't plan war against you at Pleased (and none at Friendly). However, some of them can be bribed to war even after they won't plan a war themselves; Cathy (and only Cathy) can be bribed to attack you at Friendly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been my understanding that even Cathy won't independently start planning a war at Friendly.
There are other ways they can end up at war with you; the common one is peacevassaling. They will accept a peacevassal even if that person is currently at war with someone they have Friendly diplo. relations with, and immediately be dragged into the war.
Side note two: Can anyone interested in debating the merits of another poster's tone of comment please take that elsewhere and stop cluttering up this thread?
Well, first of all: you won't be able to start an oversea war that soon in any case, so fixing your eco first will have priority anyway so you can reach critical techs. The time you have Astro, it's 99,9% sure that the other AIs will AT LEAST have all the medieval techs, which means: Castles, Longbows, Maces, Crossbows, Knights. If you start an oversea invasion against this kind of stuff with only trebs/maces, saying it'd be a pita is a huge understatement
You also most likely won't have enough production to keep that kind of war up as long as it'd need. If you're unlucky you'll face Rifles and Grens by the time you're ready to attack in all of the enemy cities. Not to mention it's pretty likely your Galleons will be eaten alive from frigates (remember: frigates come from Astro PLUS Chemistry). Call me a pessimist, but i'd say it's impossible to pull something off here. Not to mention the upkeep of the oversea cities will totally wreck your eco...
Although the difficulty is "Deity", you've chosen NTT, so it's pretty likely that the AI won't be that close to Lib. Check the following:
a) how many GGs have been born oversea? The more, the better your chances are that the AI is way behind
b) Is Taoism still available? If so, you're chances to score on Lib are roughly about 70-90%, depending on how fast you're able to recover (but with THOSE wonders it should be a matter of a few dozen turns)
c) i don't remember if you've kept an eye on the tech screen, but check this screen to get a picture of how much the AIs on your continent are ahead of you. I'd estimate that even the fastest AIs shouldn't be too much ahead of your continent... especially as you have almost all of the really critical wonders on your side (the AI techs reasonably slower without wonders). The only great eco wonder that you lack is the colossus, everything else Saladin built for you. Also, there's a high chance that some AIs will be isolated on this mapscript, and even with NTT an isolated AI will be slower as it lacks foreign traderoutes and the ability to trade for resources.
Your immeditate goals should be:
1. critical techs, especially CoL for courthouses and CS, Civil Service for Bureaucracy and Irrigation, Calendar for the resources so your cities can grow, and depending on how fast you are to all those techs get MC and Literature in between.
2. Golden Age, preferably after Pacifism, but to have a shot at Lib you'll need GSs soon. Until now you've only popped one GS if i'm not mistaken? With GLib, the additional GSs should come fast. Medina is a good city and should be easily able to handle at least 2 additional Scientists (only Banana, right? makes Civil Service even more important so you can assign more Specialists). Don't forget that the shrine gives GPP, so assign those specialists fast to minimize the chance of popping a GP. A second city should generate as much GPP as possible too. A GM would be great as you can't sell techs for gold, but the GSs should have priority as bulbs are extremely powerful at this point. If Philosophy is still available, that should be your first bulb as it'll minimize the chances of the AI going for Lib (as we know, AIs hunt religions, so when the religion is founded it's less likely that an AI will go for Philo, and until they don't have Philo they can't "decide" to go for Lib)
3. Infrastructure. Only take what you need, Granary and Courthouses in the bigger cities, Libraries in those who can afford to work specialists, Lighthouse if you need it ... all the others build wealth. Build every wonder that still is available for failgold, and do it multiple times if you can. But: do NOT delay the national wonders for failgold, you need them as soon as possible. The timeframe for failgold on national wonders is gone.
4. Disband every unit you do not need right now. You should be aware of that anyway, but i tend to forget this myself often enough
Stalin won't declare, and Shaka's occupied with Stalin. Even if they get out of war, Shaka can't reach you due to closed borders with Stalin.5. Civics. Pretty straight forward: Rep, Bureaucracy asap, Slavery, OR. In GA, change to CS to starve GPP. Can't quite remember if you already have Monotheism, if you don't: tech it NOW (took a look: you don't have it. Get it, now).
So, even if you do not manage to be the first to Lib, you'll still have a bunch of important techs you'll need in any case. Personally, i don't start oversea wars before Combustion (Transports!), but you could also aim for Astro units + Rifles/Cannons or Cavalery. But before that i'd overtake your own continent, Shaka+Stalin are distracted from their own war and should make an easy target if you rush them with Cuirassiers. If you're half-way through towards Lib and another Civ beats you to Lib, you can still go for Cuirassiers... it's a good path to take in any case.
Edit:
Yep, you're right. I'm not trying to justify the way he's acting, all i'm saying is that even with him acting like a forumtroll from time to time, there's something you can learn from his posts if you start thinking for yourself. Not sure if that's his intention, but that's how it works for me
Then again, i like cynical and sarcastic people 
so maybe that's just me and my "obsolete = civfanatics House MD" phantasy.vranasm
Deity
sorry for derailing the thread a bit, but I actually like obsolete ;-), I would just wish he made some playthrough, since he obviously does some tricks with AI's warfare and I would like to see this in action.
I generally am afraid of DoWs on high levels, he isn't and I saw in some games how he DoW's AI which is in fist phase against him right away + his love for wonders and SSE.
His old games lack SS's now, that is really bad thing for us poor mortals.
@OLR
I think you could probably use Alpha and steal yourself back? You have now the hindu shrine and Shaka is confu.
I wouldn't probably declare on Stalin since 280 AD for cats warfare looks late even for Marathon, maybe pillage war against Shaka would be better?
You could wait how it will look after Mecca with it's shrine comes out of revolt and Baghdad with TGL.
I generally am afraid of DoWs on high levels, he isn't and I saw in some games how he DoW's AI which is in fist phase against him right away + his love for wonders and SSE.
His old games lack SS's now, that is really bad thing for us poor mortals.
@OLR
I think you could probably use Alpha and steal yourself back? You have now the hindu shrine and Shaka is confu.
I wouldn't probably declare on Stalin since 280 AD for cats warfare looks late even for Marathon, maybe pillage war against Shaka would be better?
You could wait how it will look after Mecca with it's shrine comes out of revolt and Baghdad with TGL.
OneLeggedRhino
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Wow, thanks for all the comments / advice guys. A few things:
Don't worry about anyone posting mean comments. I might respond with a joke, but let's keep the thread about the game.
@coanda Thanks for the details about peacevassaling. Didn't realize my relations with Stalin didn't matter. That will sure help next game.
I'm visiting family, so not much time to play right now, but lots of time to think. And I have a plan.
I have 14 cities right now, 5 coastal, for 38 trade routes. Stalin only has 10 cities. That means I have 28 weak internal trade routes. Upgrading them from 1C to 2C is probably my biggest payoff right now.
Shaka controls a little island:
The city in the North is actually good, the one in the South not so much, but who cares? Each of them gets 4 intercontinental trade routes (8 GPT per city), but more importantly, taking both of them upgrades my 28 internal trade routes. (You only get 1 trade route with a foreign city, but every city in your empire can use any city you own). I can even squeeze a 3rd city on the horses, and later have the option of making a vassal for 3 GPT intercontinental / international routes.
All I need are a few galleys and triremes. My stack should be plenty to take these isolated spots. Shaka can't even reach the island without going through Stalin's lands. And the war will get Stalin to friendly with me.
Tech path:
Last turnset I researched up to Priesthood. Next is CoL, then Mono. Whip courthouses, everywhere runs a spy (they're such good return on investment, 8 commerce under Rep). Then I can run my own research while still stealing from Stalin.
Around now I'll probably get a GS. Bulb Philo, because Pacifism is great with a Spiritual leader. (You can run Caste / Pac, and swap to Slavery / OR for whips as new techs come out. I'll disband my old troops and run a skeleton army, trusting a friendly Stalin to protect me, so Pac will also be good for expenses).
Next research is Civil Service. It will let me farm a lot of land, and with Rep / Caste / Pac, that's really valuable. Also, a lot of cottages by Thebes are at 4-5 commerce (because the overlap cities have diligently worked them), so Bur will be great.
Then Calendar (Why so late? Saladin had already developed the resources he owned, and Stalin is trading me happiness resources) and Alphabet (no point in getting it until I actually have EPs to spend).
At that point, I'll decide which techs to steal and which to research myself. Both Stalin and Shaka are good targets: Stalin is close and has trade routes, and as vranasm points out, Shaka is Confucian but has Hinduism in most cities, so I get a 40% religion bonus vs him, making up for closed borders. (Plus, I don't care about diplo hits with him, he already hates me and always will).
Thoughts? Comments? Always welcome (even mildly snitty ones
)
Hope everyone who celebrates it had a great Thanksgiving, and all the international readers had a great Thursday. Not sure if I'll get to play today, but I'm eager to put this plan into action.
Don't worry about anyone posting mean comments. I might respond with a joke, but let's keep the thread about the game.
@coanda Thanks for the details about peacevassaling. Didn't realize my relations with Stalin didn't matter. That will sure help next game.
I'm visiting family, so not much time to play right now, but lots of time to think. And I have a plan.
I have 14 cities right now, 5 coastal, for 38 trade routes. Stalin only has 10 cities. That means I have 28 weak internal trade routes. Upgrading them from 1C to 2C is probably my biggest payoff right now.
Shaka controls a little island:
Spoiler :
The city in the North is actually good, the one in the South not so much, but who cares? Each of them gets 4 intercontinental trade routes (8 GPT per city), but more importantly, taking both of them upgrades my 28 internal trade routes. (You only get 1 trade route with a foreign city, but every city in your empire can use any city you own). I can even squeeze a 3rd city on the horses, and later have the option of making a vassal for 3 GPT intercontinental / international routes.
All I need are a few galleys and triremes. My stack should be plenty to take these isolated spots. Shaka can't even reach the island without going through Stalin's lands. And the war will get Stalin to friendly with me.
Tech path:
Last turnset I researched up to Priesthood. Next is CoL, then Mono. Whip courthouses, everywhere runs a spy (they're such good return on investment, 8 commerce under Rep). Then I can run my own research while still stealing from Stalin.
Around now I'll probably get a GS. Bulb Philo, because Pacifism is great with a Spiritual leader. (You can run Caste / Pac, and swap to Slavery / OR for whips as new techs come out. I'll disband my old troops and run a skeleton army, trusting a friendly Stalin to protect me, so Pac will also be good for expenses).
Next research is Civil Service. It will let me farm a lot of land, and with Rep / Caste / Pac, that's really valuable. Also, a lot of cottages by Thebes are at 4-5 commerce (because the overlap cities have diligently worked them), so Bur will be great.
Then Calendar (Why so late? Saladin had already developed the resources he owned, and Stalin is trading me happiness resources) and Alphabet (no point in getting it until I actually have EPs to spend).
At that point, I'll decide which techs to steal and which to research myself. Both Stalin and Shaka are good targets: Stalin is close and has trade routes, and as vranasm points out, Shaka is Confucian but has Hinduism in most cities, so I get a 40% religion bonus vs him, making up for closed borders. (Plus, I don't care about diplo hits with him, he already hates me and always will).
Thoughts? Comments? Always welcome (even mildly snitty ones
)Hope everyone who celebrates it had a great Thanksgiving, and all the international readers had a great Thursday. Not sure if I'll get to play today, but I'm eager to put this plan into action.
OneLeggedRhino
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@vranasm I was afraid of deity war until this game. If anyone wants to get over their fear of deity wars, grab my initial save, follow my "Second Try" city placement (not sure on placing Wheat 1E to squeeze in a 7th city on the plains hills to the west of it), then skip Banana and Wedge and beeline a catapults war with Saladin. You'll crush him worse than I did, and you'll see that you could sweep the continent if you wanted.
(By the way, I'm not leaving the other AIs alone because I'm scared of them, I'm leaving them alone because I need trading partners. Although with the island trade routes, maybe I'll just conquer everyone).
Between the Asoka game and this game, I'm seeing how quickly whips and drafts can prepare you for war. I would absolutely DoW an AI that's preparing for war against me, put him on defense so I'm not getting pillaged and so his trebs and city raider units are useless.
(By the way, I'm not leaving the other AIs alone because I'm scared of them, I'm leaving them alone because I need trading partners. Although with the island trade routes, maybe I'll just conquer everyone).
Between the Asoka game and this game, I'm seeing how quickly whips and drafts can prepare you for war. I would absolutely DoW an AI that's preparing for war against me, put him on defense so I'm not getting pillaged and so his trebs and city raider units are useless.
OneLeggedRhino
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My Private Island (Turns 378-410, Years 280-550 AD)
This turnset, I set that plan in motion (the two posts above this one): Conquer Shaka's island cities to make my 28 internal trade routes 2C each. That's an extra 28 CPT total, more than my Hindu shrine.
Before we start, let's look at an my economy:
My main cost is city maintenance. Whipping courthouses will fix that. And my total economy is 200 CPT, so adding 28 CPT will be a big deal.
OK, now let's get started. I have plenty of troops, but I need galleys. Four coastal cities take care of that (though the last one takes another 12 turns to arrive from Thebes, and I wind up producing 3 from Mecca, which is close by). A few others slowly finish their half-done catapults while focusing on growth.
One last thing before ending the turn: Declare on Shaka, to get Stalin to friendly.
Next is 10 turns of building, managing city growth, and consolidating stacks, then Code of Laws finishes in 380 AD. Monotheism only takes one turn at 100% research, so I start the courthouses, research mono, then swap civics and whip.
Next turn, I'm up to +6 GPT. That's 19 GPT saved from 6 courthouses.
420: Great Scientist born, and Taoism is still available. I go to bulb Philosophy, and discover that Alphabet has higher priority. I don't really care about the religion, but landing it would make the tech a low priority for the AIs, which might let me land Liberalism. After shuffling cities to scientists and cottages, I can get Alpha in 9 turns.
We'll see if Taoism is still available then.
440: Stalin founds a terrible city by where Saladin had Basra. Is working wine and coast really such a priority?
It's good for me, though. Gets me another trade route and a closer spy target.
And Shaka lands Taoism. Excellent. I'll easily keep him from landing Lib, and now I don't have to race to Alphabet.
500 AD: Time to take the island. I loaded 4 galleys in Stalin's water last turn, then send them over and unload them this turn. Minimum chance for Shaka to sink my troops.
505: A pause for the top 10 most powerful civs. Someone is ahead of Shaka (meaning there's a warmonger on another continent), and someone's behind me (meaning someone's getting taken over).
That probably means someone is dominating. I better dominate my continent so I can stop them.
A few turns later, Alphabet completes. Shot of the tech diplo screen:
Nothing surprising. Shaka almost has maces, so I probably don't want to press this war. And there are plenty of techs to steal.
I think about swapping to Pacifism, but it would cost me about 25 GPT (42 troops, minus 18 GPT for Organized Religion, I think were the numbers). So I'll wait, both on the swap and on bulbing Philosophy.
525: With a second boatload of mostly catapults, I take Shaka's northern city:
Eight people and a courthouse. Not bad. But remember, the real reason was for trade routes. Does it work?
An extra 14 CPT. As much as a decent shrine. Awesome.
535: Stalin declares on Shaka. I forgot the screencap where they made peace, it happened sometime while my galleys were moving into position. But they're going to hate each other forever, so peace is really just a pause.
550: Shaka completes the Sistine Chapel. I'm still amazed when the AI makes wonders instead of troops in the middle of a war.
And I take the other half of Shaka's island.
It has sheep! I was working from the other screenshot, which cut them off, so I thought it was just a trash city. This is excellent.
But the real prize is the trade routes:
Another 15 CPT. I flip through my cities, and every one of them is trading with the two on this island. I'm quite pleased with how this plan played out.
There was a discussion recently about how to make an island vassal. I thought you needed 3 cities, but it looks like you only need 2.
Of course, I don't liberate them. If I did, only one city could trade with each of them, instead of every city getting the trade routes.
Shot of my cities at the end of the turnset:
Thebes is working on the Moai Statues. (They go in a commerce city, because 2F 1H 2C is passable commerce, but terrible production). Banana, as my western-most city, is working on the Forbidden Palace to further reduce costs. And cities are still growing strong.
Civil Service in 10 turns. But when I load the game again, it should go even faster if I disband the low-exp units, bulb Philosophy and swap to Pacifism. The other option is to spend those troops taking another city from Shaka before making peace. I'll see if anything looks particularly juicy.
Goals for next turnset:
This turnset, I set that plan in motion (the two posts above this one): Conquer Shaka's island cities to make my 28 internal trade routes 2C each. That's an extra 28 CPT total, more than my Hindu shrine.
Before we start, let's look at an my economy:
Spoiler :
My main cost is city maintenance. Whipping courthouses will fix that. And my total economy is 200 CPT, so adding 28 CPT will be a big deal.
OK, now let's get started. I have plenty of troops, but I need galleys. Four coastal cities take care of that (though the last one takes another 12 turns to arrive from Thebes, and I wind up producing 3 from Mecca, which is close by). A few others slowly finish their half-done catapults while focusing on growth.
Spoiler :
One last thing before ending the turn: Declare on Shaka, to get Stalin to friendly.
Spoiler :
Next is 10 turns of building, managing city growth, and consolidating stacks, then Code of Laws finishes in 380 AD. Monotheism only takes one turn at 100% research, so I start the courthouses, research mono, then swap civics and whip.
Spoiler :
Next turn, I'm up to +6 GPT. That's 19 GPT saved from 6 courthouses.
420: Great Scientist born, and Taoism is still available. I go to bulb Philosophy, and discover that Alphabet has higher priority. I don't really care about the religion, but landing it would make the tech a low priority for the AIs, which might let me land Liberalism. After shuffling cities to scientists and cottages, I can get Alpha in 9 turns.
Spoiler :
We'll see if Taoism is still available then.
440: Stalin founds a terrible city by where Saladin had Basra. Is working wine and coast really such a priority?
Spoiler :
It's good for me, though. Gets me another trade route and a closer spy target.
And Shaka lands Taoism. Excellent. I'll easily keep him from landing Lib, and now I don't have to race to Alphabet.
Spoiler :
500 AD: Time to take the island. I loaded 4 galleys in Stalin's water last turn, then send them over and unload them this turn. Minimum chance for Shaka to sink my troops.
Spoiler :
505: A pause for the top 10 most powerful civs. Someone is ahead of Shaka (meaning there's a warmonger on another continent), and someone's behind me (meaning someone's getting taken over).
Spoiler :
That probably means someone is dominating. I better dominate my continent so I can stop them.
A few turns later, Alphabet completes. Shot of the tech diplo screen:
Spoiler :
Nothing surprising. Shaka almost has maces, so I probably don't want to press this war. And there are plenty of techs to steal.
I think about swapping to Pacifism, but it would cost me about 25 GPT (42 troops, minus 18 GPT for Organized Religion, I think were the numbers). So I'll wait, both on the swap and on bulbing Philosophy.
525: With a second boatload of mostly catapults, I take Shaka's northern city:
Spoiler :
Eight people and a courthouse. Not bad. But remember, the real reason was for trade routes. Does it work?
Spoiler :
An extra 14 CPT. As much as a decent shrine. Awesome.
535: Stalin declares on Shaka. I forgot the screencap where they made peace, it happened sometime while my galleys were moving into position. But they're going to hate each other forever, so peace is really just a pause.
Spoiler :
550: Shaka completes the Sistine Chapel. I'm still amazed when the AI makes wonders instead of troops in the middle of a war.
Spoiler :
And I take the other half of Shaka's island.
Spoiler :
It has sheep! I was working from the other screenshot, which cut them off, so I thought it was just a trash city. This is excellent.
But the real prize is the trade routes:
Spoiler :
Another 15 CPT. I flip through my cities, and every one of them is trading with the two on this island. I'm quite pleased with how this plan played out.
There was a discussion recently about how to make an island vassal. I thought you needed 3 cities, but it looks like you only need 2.
Spoiler :
Of course, I don't liberate them. If I did, only one city could trade with each of them, instead of every city getting the trade routes.
Shot of my cities at the end of the turnset:
Spoiler :
Thebes is working on the Moai Statues. (They go in a commerce city, because 2F 1H 2C is passable commerce, but terrible production). Banana, as my western-most city, is working on the Forbidden Palace to further reduce costs. And cities are still growing strong.
Civil Service in 10 turns. But when I load the game again, it should go even faster if I disband the low-exp units, bulb Philosophy and swap to Pacifism. The other option is to spend those troops taking another city from Shaka before making peace. I'll see if anything looks particularly juicy.
Goals for next turnset:
- Spread irrigation everywhere.
- Get espionage going.
- Conquer another city?
OneLeggedRhino
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Economic Analysis (550 AD)
Let's do some planning between turnsets. I load the game and look around.
First, grabbing more cities: There's nowhere that's easy to defend. I'd either need to sweep Shaka or do nothing. Since Shaka almost has maces, sweeping is expensive. And since I don't have Feudalism, sweeping would probably wind up with Shaka vassalling to Stalin, and me missing out on a lot of land. Not a very appealing option. So I'll leave this as a fake war and focus on techs.
Next: How much do I gain by disbanding the army and swapping to Pacifism? (With occasional swaps to Slavery / OR as new buildings become available).
Organized Religion costs me 27 GPT with inflation. The army costs me 43. I'm not going to disband everything: Catapults stay, and anyone with 3 upgrades stays. But if I make them my city defenders for some cities, I can probably get rid of half the army. Let's call it 20 units staying around. Normal army upkeep drops to 10 GPT (including workers).
The screenshot lists 14 as my free military under Pacifism, which should go up to 16 once the island comes out of resistance. So figure the army now costs 4 GPT. Let's round the whole thing out at 20 GPT for a skeleton army under Pacifism. Now let me review the screenshots and do some math, and...
Holy cow, that would save 50 GPT. That's huge. That's like, two holy cities huge. Yes, I'm definitely doing it.
I'd thought this would be a small change, something where I'd weight the options and come up with a plan. But it's not. With Stalin to protect me, disbanding the army and becoming pacifist is a slam dunk. No plan needed besides "Teching fast is good."
Extra: How does my current econ screen compare with the screen at the start of last turnset?
Let's do some planning between turnsets. I load the game and look around.
First, grabbing more cities: There's nowhere that's easy to defend. I'd either need to sweep Shaka or do nothing. Since Shaka almost has maces, sweeping is expensive. And since I don't have Feudalism, sweeping would probably wind up with Shaka vassalling to Stalin, and me missing out on a lot of land. Not a very appealing option. So I'll leave this as a fake war and focus on techs.
Next: How much do I gain by disbanding the army and swapping to Pacifism? (With occasional swaps to Slavery / OR as new buildings become available).
Spoiler :
Organized Religion costs me 27 GPT with inflation. The army costs me 43. I'm not going to disband everything: Catapults stay, and anyone with 3 upgrades stays. But if I make them my city defenders for some cities, I can probably get rid of half the army. Let's call it 20 units staying around. Normal army upkeep drops to 10 GPT (including workers).
The screenshot lists 14 as my free military under Pacifism, which should go up to 16 once the island comes out of resistance. So figure the army now costs 4 GPT. Let's round the whole thing out at 20 GPT for a skeleton army under Pacifism. Now let me review the screenshots and do some math, and...
Holy cow, that would save 50 GPT. That's huge. That's like, two holy cities huge. Yes, I'm definitely doing it.
I'd thought this would be a small change, something where I'd weight the options and come up with a plan. But it's not. With Stalin to protect me, disbanding the army and becoming pacifist is a slam dunk. No plan needed besides "Teching fast is good."
Extra: How does my current econ screen compare with the screen at the start of last turnset?
Spoiler :
Um the Muse
King
Am I missing something, or are your gains mostly from disbanding the majority of your army? You said that the army is costing you 43 GPT and you're going to cut it down to 10 GPT. That's 33 GPT right there. You can do that whether or not you switch to Pacifism. Also, what about Feudalism? That should save some of your army until you get Bureaucracy.
Now that you're only looking at 27-4=23 GPT (or less, from Feudalism), you can ask yourself whether giving up 25% more
is worth it. Probably, but I can't tell you for sure. For one thing, you'd have to find out how many you're getting.
Now that you're only looking at 27-4=23 GPT (or less, from Feudalism), you can ask yourself whether giving up 25% more
is worth it. Probably, but I can't tell you for sure. For one thing, you'd have to find out how many you're getting.Incidentally, you forgot to include inflation in your army-disbanding-savings. 43 GPT before inflation is 49 after inflation, so it saves ~38 GPT. Then Pacifism can save another ~23, for total savings of ~61 GPT.
As for whether the Pacifism savings are worthwhile... it's not like he's just losing the infra. hammers. He's also getting +100% GPP, which is probably necessary if he's hoping to make a run at Liberalism. I'd do one last round of whips in places which really need some infra., then swap to Pacifism and start running scientists.
As for whether the Pacifism savings are worthwhile... it's not like he's just losing the infra. hammers. He's also getting +100% GPP, which is probably necessary if he's hoping to make a run at Liberalism. I'd do one last round of whips in places which really need some infra., then swap to Pacifism and start running scientists.
OneLeggedRhino
King
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 656
Getting the Economy Going (Turns 410-466, Years 550-830 AD)
Wars are done, time for tech. I start by disbanding most of my army and swapping to Pacifism, as outlined in the post before this one. The result:
Saved about 50 GPT, as expected. Half comes from losing troops, half from Pacifism. I'll also disband more troops later this turnset, as these troops move into place as city garrison (for happiness). In the end, I only keep units with 9+ exp, plus all the catapults.
Also, I make peace with Shaka, bringing in another 250 G. I don't care about relations with him, so I'll just declare again next time he and Stalin fight.
Civil Service arrives in 7 turns. (This is the equivalent of 2.3 turns on normal speed, quite fast). My 16 workers are already split into groups of 3 to farm quickly. I swap to Bureaucracy.
Next is Calendar, in 5 turns.
Completes in 605 AD, giving my cities 3 happiness, one health, and a few more good tiles.
Next is Metal Casting. More production is great, and with gold and silver, forges are a great deal.
As for civics: When building wealth in most cities, Caste / Pacifism is the obvious winner. When whipping buildings, Organized Religion / Slavery is the obvious winner. The rest of the time, I default to Pacifism. Swapping to OR costs 1 notch on the research slider, and I'd rather 2x GP production than 1.25x infrastructure production, since any critical infrastructure just gets whipped anyway. This turnset also has 5-10 turns in OR building forges (they don't complete, but I just decide the extra cost isn't worth it), 8 turns of slavery to whip buildings in the island cities (I didn't realize Hinduism wasn't in the southern one, so I had to stay in Slavery to spread the religion), and some time in Serfdom building farms.
620: Great Artist born in Mecca, due to all the GA wonders Saladin built. He'll pop a golden age once my cities are up to size.
635: Izzy says hello. She's first to Optics, and with a vassal, is probably the AI to beat. Remember, it's random personalities, so we don't know how she'll behave.
Here's the favorite-civic-info-screen.
Stalin loves Theocracy, but shared religion is only a +6, so I'm thinking he's Justinian (who I think is less of a fanatic than Izzy or Zara). Shaka loves Bureaucracy, and loves wonders, so I'm thinking he's Peter, or maybe Kublai Kahn or Quin Shi Huang (not sure of their personalities). And Izzy loves Vassalage, so she's probably someone aggressive.
I split EPs between the 3 of them (skipping Toku, her vassal), to get stats.
Here's how we all stack up:
On the whole, I'm still surprised to be doing this well vs deity AIs.
And here's the tech diplo screen:
Izzy is ahead, but not by a huge amount.
640: Metal Casting completes. Everywhere starts on forges, and I was to Organized Religion for a bit, but don't whip them. If a city has lots of production, it will make the forge just fine. If not, no need to rush it. If they hit happy caps, I can always swap and whip.
Next is Paper, then a beeline to Liberalism.
645: Shaka completes Angkor Wat, bringing in 440 failgold. (Largely whip overflow from courthouses).
655: My first spies are ready. I grab Theology from Stalin for the 20% bump to Paper, and focus all my EP production on him.
665: I steal Monarchy. It doesn't do anything for me, but Feudalism would be nice. I'd like to vassal Stalin, plus the civics are useful: Serfdom, to finish the farms faster, and for Vassalage if I want to build an army but keep Pacifism, or if I just want to build an army.
690: Paper completes. I'd turned the research slider down and the EP slider up when I saw Shaka going for Engineering instead of Education.
700: Steal Feudalism, swap to Serfdom to quickly finish the farms. Most of my cities are running a spy and two scientists, and don't need Caste.
735: Great Spy born. I was hoping for a Great Scientist to bulb Education, but a GSpy is good too. Since I'm using the EP slider some, should I settle or build Scotland Yard?
Capital has 91 commerce (with the Bur bonus). Half of that goes to gold. Then half the time I run research. So that's really 23 CPT going into espionage. A settled GSpy is worth 12 EPs and 6 beakers, for 18 CPT, but he's not going to decrease if I swap to 100% research for a Lib beeline. So I settle this one, and will make SY with the next.
Also, another 5 turns in Slavery / OR for a few whips.
755: Steal Machinery.
I've also stolen some gold, and had one steal fail at 90% chance of success, which isn't too surprising with all the spying I've been doing. Stalin is down to pleased, but Shaka is preparing for war, which should let me improve relations with Stalin again.
775: Steal Compass. Some of my coastal cities need health.
780: Shaka completes the University of Sankore. What a wonder whore! I get 250 G.
785: Here's something you don't see every day:
Toku offers to swap world maps. I'm shocked until I remember it's random AIs. Here's the map:
Most useful is probably the minimap in the lower right. Toku has 7 cities, Izzy has 11. The other power on the continent is Etheopia, with slightly less land than Izzy.
805: Another Great Scientist born.
I'd stopped Mecca's growth to get him out earlier, but it turns out Education is almost done and the bulb isn't worth it. I save him for later.
830: Ready to steal another tech.
I end of the turnset to consider which is best: Engineering (for castles, +25% EPs and +1 trade route, and yes I have stone) or Guilds (to then steal / tech Banking, for Mercantilism). The real question is: How good is Mercantilism?
Here's the trade routes screen:
My internal routes are worth 2 CPT. My 10 with Stalin are worth 28 total. So adopting Mercantilism would cost me 8 CPT, plus 1 CPT per coastal city that now only has 3 worthwhile trade partners. (I'd settle a 3rd island city on the horse). In exchange, 16 specialists, for around 100 CPT and GPP. Hell yeah, I want Mercantilism. Plus it would slow Stalin down, which is good since I want to vassal him before everyone gets Astronomy.
So, that's the plan for next turnset:
Wars are done, time for tech. I start by disbanding most of my army and swapping to Pacifism, as outlined in the post before this one. The result:
Spoiler :
Saved about 50 GPT, as expected. Half comes from losing troops, half from Pacifism. I'll also disband more troops later this turnset, as these troops move into place as city garrison (for happiness). In the end, I only keep units with 9+ exp, plus all the catapults.
Also, I make peace with Shaka, bringing in another 250 G. I don't care about relations with him, so I'll just declare again next time he and Stalin fight.
Civil Service arrives in 7 turns. (This is the equivalent of 2.3 turns on normal speed, quite fast). My 16 workers are already split into groups of 3 to farm quickly. I swap to Bureaucracy.
Next is Calendar, in 5 turns.
Spoiler :
Completes in 605 AD, giving my cities 3 happiness, one health, and a few more good tiles.
Next is Metal Casting. More production is great, and with gold and silver, forges are a great deal.
Spoiler :
As for civics: When building wealth in most cities, Caste / Pacifism is the obvious winner. When whipping buildings, Organized Religion / Slavery is the obvious winner. The rest of the time, I default to Pacifism. Swapping to OR costs 1 notch on the research slider, and I'd rather 2x GP production than 1.25x infrastructure production, since any critical infrastructure just gets whipped anyway. This turnset also has 5-10 turns in OR building forges (they don't complete, but I just decide the extra cost isn't worth it), 8 turns of slavery to whip buildings in the island cities (I didn't realize Hinduism wasn't in the southern one, so I had to stay in Slavery to spread the religion), and some time in Serfdom building farms.
620: Great Artist born in Mecca, due to all the GA wonders Saladin built. He'll pop a golden age once my cities are up to size.
Spoiler :
635: Izzy says hello. She's first to Optics, and with a vassal, is probably the AI to beat. Remember, it's random personalities, so we don't know how she'll behave.
Here's the favorite-civic-info-screen.
Spoiler :
Stalin loves Theocracy, but shared religion is only a +6, so I'm thinking he's Justinian (who I think is less of a fanatic than Izzy or Zara). Shaka loves Bureaucracy, and loves wonders, so I'm thinking he's Peter, or maybe Kublai Kahn or Quin Shi Huang (not sure of their personalities). And Izzy loves Vassalage, so she's probably someone aggressive.
I split EPs between the 3 of them (skipping Toku, her vassal), to get stats.
Spoiler :
Here's how we all stack up:
Spoiler :
On the whole, I'm still surprised to be doing this well vs deity AIs.
And here's the tech diplo screen:
Spoiler :
Izzy is ahead, but not by a huge amount.
640: Metal Casting completes. Everywhere starts on forges, and I was to Organized Religion for a bit, but don't whip them. If a city has lots of production, it will make the forge just fine. If not, no need to rush it. If they hit happy caps, I can always swap and whip.
Next is Paper, then a beeline to Liberalism.
645: Shaka completes Angkor Wat, bringing in 440 failgold. (Largely whip overflow from courthouses).
Spoiler :
655: My first spies are ready. I grab Theology from Stalin for the 20% bump to Paper, and focus all my EP production on him.
Spoiler :
665: I steal Monarchy. It doesn't do anything for me, but Feudalism would be nice. I'd like to vassal Stalin, plus the civics are useful: Serfdom, to finish the farms faster, and for Vassalage if I want to build an army but keep Pacifism, or if I just want to build an army.
Spoiler :
690: Paper completes. I'd turned the research slider down and the EP slider up when I saw Shaka going for Engineering instead of Education.
700: Steal Feudalism, swap to Serfdom to quickly finish the farms. Most of my cities are running a spy and two scientists, and don't need Caste.
Spoiler :
735: Great Spy born. I was hoping for a Great Scientist to bulb Education, but a GSpy is good too. Since I'm using the EP slider some, should I settle or build Scotland Yard?
Spoiler :
Capital has 91 commerce (with the Bur bonus). Half of that goes to gold. Then half the time I run research. So that's really 23 CPT going into espionage. A settled GSpy is worth 12 EPs and 6 beakers, for 18 CPT, but he's not going to decrease if I swap to 100% research for a Lib beeline. So I settle this one, and will make SY with the next.
Also, another 5 turns in Slavery / OR for a few whips.
755: Steal Machinery.
Spoiler :
I've also stolen some gold, and had one steal fail at 90% chance of success, which isn't too surprising with all the spying I've been doing. Stalin is down to pleased, but Shaka is preparing for war, which should let me improve relations with Stalin again.
775: Steal Compass. Some of my coastal cities need health.
Spoiler :
780: Shaka completes the University of Sankore. What a wonder whore! I get 250 G.
Spoiler :
785: Here's something you don't see every day:
Spoiler :
Toku offers to swap world maps. I'm shocked until I remember it's random AIs. Here's the map:
Spoiler :
Most useful is probably the minimap in the lower right. Toku has 7 cities, Izzy has 11. The other power on the continent is Etheopia, with slightly less land than Izzy.
805: Another Great Scientist born.
Spoiler :
I'd stopped Mecca's growth to get him out earlier, but it turns out Education is almost done and the bulb isn't worth it. I save him for later.
830: Ready to steal another tech.
Spoiler :
I end of the turnset to consider which is best: Engineering (for castles, +25% EPs and +1 trade route, and yes I have stone) or Guilds (to then steal / tech Banking, for Mercantilism). The real question is: How good is Mercantilism?
Here's the trade routes screen:
Spoiler :
My internal routes are worth 2 CPT. My 10 with Stalin are worth 28 total. So adopting Mercantilism would cost me 8 CPT, plus 1 CPT per coastal city that now only has 3 worthwhile trade partners. (I'd settle a 3rd island city on the horse). In exchange, 16 specialists, for around 100 CPT and GPP. Hell yeah, I want Mercantilism. Plus it would slow Stalin down, which is good since I want to vassal him before everyone gets Astronomy.
So, that's the plan for next turnset:
- Steal Guilds, whip a couple grocers.
- Research Banking, swap to Mercantilism.
- Pop a golden age soon.
- Tech parity with my continent.
Please tell me you didn't use Serfdom Such a terrible civic ... btw, Forges +bonus also applies to Slavery, so not finishing them because the cities have little production is somewhat awkward ... you should still have tons of infra ready to build in most of your cities ~
I don't get why you didn't bother to get to Literature, you have both the HE and NE available... they're huge, and cheap.
Your cap should take back all cottage tiles. It's about the benefit you get out of them RIGHT NOW, even if that means you won't be working all of the cap's tiles: work the best commerce tiles the cap can have. Not working the grassland cottages also slowed your cap's growth without a need to do so, you're missing out on +4F here, which is quite alot.
Such a terrible civic ... btw, Forges +bonus also applies to Slavery, so not finishing them because the cities have little production is somewhat awkward ... you should still have tons of infra ready to build in most of your cities ~I don't get why you didn't bother to get to Literature, you have both the HE and NE available... they're huge, and cheap.
Your cap should take back all cottage tiles. It's about the benefit you get out of them RIGHT NOW, even if that means you won't be working all of the cap's tiles: work the best commerce tiles the cap can have. Not working the grassland cottages also slowed your cap's growth without a need to do so, you're missing out on +4F here, which is quite alot.
OneLeggedRhino
King
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 656
Hi everyone, I'm back. Just played a turnset, will post it soon.
On Serfdom: It's a fabulous tech for a very brief period: When you get Civil Service and have a ton of farms to do. Especially if you're not whipping anything right that minute, and only have the population for a spy and two scientists anyway (so caste is useless), absolutely swap to Serfdom. And if you get Calendar at the same time (as I did), Serfdom is even better. But only an option for Spiritual leaders.
On the Epics: No marble, so they're not that cheap. I'll get HE in the military city before focusing in troops. Probably never going to get NE, since there's no one city devoted to GPP (most cities will run 3-5 specialists). But Aesthetics-->Lit is low priority stealing for now.
On Serfdom: It's a fabulous tech for a very brief period: When you get Civil Service and have a ton of farms to do. Especially if you're not whipping anything right that minute, and only have the population for a spy and two scientists anyway (so caste is useless), absolutely swap to Serfdom. And if you get Calendar at the same time (as I did), Serfdom is even better. But only an option for Spiritual leaders.
On the Epics: No marble, so they're not that cheap. I'll get HE in the military city before focusing in troops. Probably never going to get NE, since there's no one city devoted to GPP (most cities will run 3-5 specialists). But Aesthetics-->Lit is low priority stealing for now.
OneLeggedRhino
King
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 656
Whipping is Great for Learning (Turns 466-476, Years 830-880 AD)
Hello everyone. Sorry for the delay in posting, my job got in the way. But now I'm back to being a bum for the week, which means more time for games.
I start by reviewing my cities:
A bunch of forges. I haven't whipped them yet because there's no other infrastructure worth building, but with Education coming in, I'll whip a few to make universities.
Also, my spies steal Guilds, which (1) lets the Holy City build a grocer, and (2) opens up Banking for Mercantilism. See the analysis at the end of last turnset.
Next turn, swap to Slavery and Organized Religion, and whip some forges.
840: Education completes. Six universities: Three whipped right away, another two come after the cities finish slow-building forges (they only had 1-2 turns left), and Thebes whips at the end, to overflow into Oxford.
Next tech is Liberalism, but no rush. Shaka is the only one who has Philosophy, and he's working on Guilds right now.
With luck, I'll be able to tech Gunpowder first, bulb Chemistry, then use Lib for Steel. But for now, I focus on EPs to steal Banking and Engineering.
865: Shaka declares on Stalin.
Stalin still completely separates us, even my island cities, so I join in the war, getting Stalin back to Friendly. Maybe I'll send some troops later, but probably not.
870: Finally start on Oxford. Took 6 turns to whip the universities, which is slower than I'd like, but I wasn't able to 5-pop whip all of them.
With a mercantile engineer and another hill, it should finish around the time I run out of techs to steal and turn research back on.
875: Stalin gets Banking, and so do I.
Which civics should I take?
Most cities are done with infrastructure for a while, so Organized Religion isn't very important. (Thebes already has +175% production, so an extra 25% is no big deal). So I also take Caste and Pacifism.
I'll grow cities then try to pop out some GP before preparing for wars. There's still that Great Artist sitting around waiting to pop a 24-turn golden age.
880: Izzy calls demanding rice. Easy +1 diplo. Also, I find out she's at war with Zara Yaqob when she captures one of his cities. (I was mildly worried about her declaring on me, since she does have Astronomy now).
Also, I realized Thebes only had one more turn for Moai, so I finished them, netting +2 hammers per turn, and 800 failgold. It grows on towns for now, and will work coast as it grows to size.
With Mercantilism, I'm relying on island trade routes to keep my economy afloat. There aren't enough good trade routes to go around, though:
So I grab another city, on the island horse:
Memphis works 2 scientists, and brings me up to 50 trade routes, for 99 CPT. The best terrible city I've had in a long time.
Now that I'm back in the game, future turnsets should go quicker. Here's the long-term plan, which will probably take 2-3 turnsets:
Hello everyone. Sorry for the delay in posting, my job got in the way. But now I'm back to being a bum for the week, which means more time for games.
I start by reviewing my cities:
Spoiler :
A bunch of forges. I haven't whipped them yet because there's no other infrastructure worth building, but with Education coming in, I'll whip a few to make universities.
Also, my spies steal Guilds, which (1) lets the Holy City build a grocer, and (2) opens up Banking for Mercantilism. See the analysis at the end of last turnset.
Spoiler :
Next turn, swap to Slavery and Organized Religion, and whip some forges.
Spoiler :
840: Education completes. Six universities: Three whipped right away, another two come after the cities finish slow-building forges (they only had 1-2 turns left), and Thebes whips at the end, to overflow into Oxford.
Next tech is Liberalism, but no rush. Shaka is the only one who has Philosophy, and he's working on Guilds right now.
Spoiler :
With luck, I'll be able to tech Gunpowder first, bulb Chemistry, then use Lib for Steel. But for now, I focus on EPs to steal Banking and Engineering.
865: Shaka declares on Stalin.
Spoiler :
Stalin still completely separates us, even my island cities, so I join in the war, getting Stalin back to Friendly. Maybe I'll send some troops later, but probably not.
Spoiler :
870: Finally start on Oxford. Took 6 turns to whip the universities, which is slower than I'd like, but I wasn't able to 5-pop whip all of them.
Spoiler :
With a mercantile engineer and another hill, it should finish around the time I run out of techs to steal and turn research back on.
875: Stalin gets Banking, and so do I.
Spoiler :
Which civics should I take?
Spoiler :
Most cities are done with infrastructure for a while, so Organized Religion isn't very important. (Thebes already has +175% production, so an extra 25% is no big deal). So I also take Caste and Pacifism.
Spoiler :
I'll grow cities then try to pop out some GP before preparing for wars. There's still that Great Artist sitting around waiting to pop a 24-turn golden age.
880: Izzy calls demanding rice. Easy +1 diplo. Also, I find out she's at war with Zara Yaqob when she captures one of his cities. (I was mildly worried about her declaring on me, since she does have Astronomy now).
Spoiler :
Also, I realized Thebes only had one more turn for Moai, so I finished them, netting +2 hammers per turn, and 800 failgold. It grows on towns for now, and will work coast as it grows to size.
With Mercantilism, I'm relying on island trade routes to keep my economy afloat. There aren't enough good trade routes to go around, though:
Spoiler :
So I grab another city, on the island horse:
Spoiler :
Memphis works 2 scientists, and brings me up to 50 trade routes, for 99 CPT. The best terrible city I've had in a long time.
Spoiler :
Now that I'm back in the game, future turnsets should go quicker. Here's the long-term plan, which will probably take 2-3 turnsets:
- Grow cities (not necessarily max size, but so they're working all the farms and a bunch of specialists, and growing either slowly or not at all).
- Pop a golden age, rush GP out.
- Research military techs (in parallel with those two goals).
- Build up, conquer / vassal my continent.
OneLeggedRhino
King
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 656
Preparing for Liberalism (Turns 476-501, Years 880-1005 AD)
This turnset is about getting my ducks in a row: For a golden age, for Liberalism, and maybe for a war.
910: Steal Engineering, for castles, then turn EPs off. I'll turn them on after the castles finish, maybe not right away, but definitely at some point.
With the 3 island cities, the +1 trade routes will pay off, even with Mercantilism.
935: Steal Aesthetics. Next is Liberalism for the Heroic Epic.
Around now I swap back to Slavery / Organized Religion, whip a bank in the Holy City, and whip Oxford in Thebes. (It will grow back quicker if it doesn't have to work the hills). Now time to turn research on, and get Liberalism one turn from done.
Shaka finishes Banking. I'm expecting Economics next, but not, it's Education. I didn't realize, he still doesn't have it, and the rest of the world doesn't even have Paper. So, (1) Liberalism is really safe, and (2) I'm blowing everyone away in techs. Which gives me an idea:
970: Stalin and Shaka make peace. But Shaka is still Stalin's worst enemy, so they won't be opening borders anytime soon. Shaka wants a city for peace, so I'll just stay in this fake war.
And I steal Literature from Stalin. Military starts on the Heroic Epic (around 25 turns). I skip National Epic because I don't have marble and there's no one city that's particularly GP-heavy.
990: Gunpowder completes. Next is Chemistry.
1000: Steal Horseback Riding. Thought about teching it and saving up to steal Optics, but I'm not worried about Stalin, and I'm after the fastest tech rate I can get.
1005: Chemistry completes. (Bulbed 2/3 of it). Here's my situation:
Question: What to take with Lib? (I can safely wait another few techs, since no one else is close).
I've been planning a golden age, waiting until cities finished castles and grew a bit more. (They grow faster working grass hills than running specialists, so castle-building time was also city-growth time). This is actually the turn I'd planned for the GA, with a BUG mod reminder and everything. But the GA conflicts with "Lib, take Steel, prepare for war."
Also, my military city is 20 turns away from finishing the Heroic Epic, which also suggests delaying war. It will finish around the same time as the 24-turn GA.
I'm the tech lead, and have the highest GNP, so I'm also pulling further ahead. Being the only one with Education doesn't hurt, either. So time is on my side. Someone might get muskets, but I can easily get Rifling before anyone gets Steel.
But what else would I take with Lib? Biology is a good option, but it's another long-term tech, which would push the war further back, so probably not.
Maybe I'll tech Nationalism, steal Music, tech Military Tradition, and Liberalism for Steel. That will probably take about 20 turns, leaving me a full military age ahead as the golden age ends.
If the techs go a bit faster, I'll self-tech Steel too, bulb Scientific Method, and take Bio to whip troops. (Or maybe head to Rifling, depends on if anyone has muskets yet).
So, that's the plan next turnset:
This turnset is about getting my ducks in a row: For a golden age, for Liberalism, and maybe for a war.
910: Steal Engineering, for castles, then turn EPs off. I'll turn them on after the castles finish, maybe not right away, but definitely at some point.
Spoiler :
With the 3 island cities, the +1 trade routes will pay off, even with Mercantilism.
935: Steal Aesthetics. Next is Liberalism for the Heroic Epic.
Spoiler :
Around now I swap back to Slavery / Organized Religion, whip a bank in the Holy City, and whip Oxford in Thebes. (It will grow back quicker if it doesn't have to work the hills). Now time to turn research on, and get Liberalism one turn from done.
Shaka finishes Banking. I'm expecting Economics next, but not, it's Education. I didn't realize, he still doesn't have it, and the rest of the world doesn't even have Paper. So, (1) Liberalism is really safe, and (2) I'm blowing everyone away in techs. Which gives me an idea:
- Bulb and tech Printing Press.
- Tech Gunpowder (4 turns at 100% research).
- Bulb and tech Chemistry. (I got another GS out of Holy City this turnset).
- Liberalism for Steel.
- Cannons dominate the continent.
Spoiler :
970: Stalin and Shaka make peace. But Shaka is still Stalin's worst enemy, so they won't be opening borders anytime soon. Shaka wants a city for peace, so I'll just stay in this fake war.
Spoiler :
And I steal Literature from Stalin. Military starts on the Heroic Epic (around 25 turns). I skip National Epic because I don't have marble and there's no one city that's particularly GP-heavy.
Spoiler :
990: Gunpowder completes. Next is Chemistry.
1000: Steal Horseback Riding. Thought about teching it and saving up to steal Optics, but I'm not worried about Stalin, and I'm after the fastest tech rate I can get.
Spoiler :
1005: Chemistry completes. (Bulbed 2/3 of it). Here's my situation:
Spoiler :
Question: What to take with Lib? (I can safely wait another few techs, since no one else is close).
I've been planning a golden age, waiting until cities finished castles and grew a bit more. (They grow faster working grass hills than running specialists, so castle-building time was also city-growth time). This is actually the turn I'd planned for the GA, with a BUG mod reminder and everything. But the GA conflicts with "Lib, take Steel, prepare for war."
Also, my military city is 20 turns away from finishing the Heroic Epic, which also suggests delaying war. It will finish around the same time as the 24-turn GA.
I'm the tech lead, and have the highest GNP, so I'm also pulling further ahead. Being the only one with Education doesn't hurt, either. So time is on my side. Someone might get muskets, but I can easily get Rifling before anyone gets Steel.
But what else would I take with Lib? Biology is a good option, but it's another long-term tech, which would push the war further back, so probably not.
Maybe I'll tech Nationalism, steal Music, tech Military Tradition, and Liberalism for Steel. That will probably take about 20 turns, leaving me a full military age ahead as the golden age ends.
If the techs go a bit faster, I'll self-tech Steel too, bulb Scientific Method, and take Bio to whip troops. (Or maybe head to Rifling, depends on if anyone has muskets yet).
So, that's the plan next turnset:
- Golden age, lots of specialists.
- Tech Nationalism, steal Music.
- Get Military Tradition and Steel, prepare for war.
