Rick Perry

[Leoreth]

Truth isn't defined by the number of people who accept it.

In the case of laws, truth is a meaningless concept.

 

[Samson]

Capital Punishment has nothing to do with authoritarianism by default.

Not saying anything about the rest of the thread, but you are saying that whether or not a state has the right to kill its citizens has nothing to do with how authoritarian that state is?

Yes.

Those who kill people deserve to be killed themselves. There's nothing inherently authoritarian about that.

authoritarian

Adjective: Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

So you think that a state that kills some of those who do not obey its rules is not more enforcing of obedience than one that does not (and is otherwise the same)? I am not saying it is the be all and end all of it, but to say it has no bearing on it seems a very odd stance to me. I wonder what single issues you would point to as having some bearing on the "authoritarianness" of a state?

 

[classical_hero]

What do you suggest to improve justice?

Sola Scriptura.

 

[RedRalph]

So, back on topic

 

[GhostWriter16]

authoritarian

Adjective: Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

So you think that a state that kills some of those who do not obey its rules is not more enforcing of obedience than one that does not (and is otherwise the same)? I am not saying it is the be all and end all of it, but to say it has no bearing on it seems a very odd stance to me. I wonder what single issues you would point to as having some bearing on the "authoritarianness" of a state?

Well, "Don't murder" is something pretty much everyone agrees on.

I think authoritarianism is defined by making people follow unnecessary rules or rules that are based solely on religious morality.

Sola Scriptura.

Meh, I prefer my man-made traditions

 

[Samson]

Well, "Don't murder" is something pretty much everyone agrees on.

I think authoritarianism is defined by making people follow unnecessary rules or rules that are based solely on religious morality.

Oh, I see, a case of "I do not think that means what you think it means". My definition is the one google comes up with, and pretty much fits with my understanding of the word.

 

[RedRalph]

Perry is running. Will announce on Saturday.

 

[Leoreth]

Well, "Don't murder" is something pretty much everyone agrees on.

I think authoritarianism is defined by making people follow unnecessary rules or rules that are based solely on religious morality.

Complaining about the state interfering with people's wallets but being okay with the state interfering with people's lifes is insanely hypocritical. I can't find any more moderate way of putting it.

 

[Dreadnought]

Oh, I see, a case of "I do not think that means what you think it means". My definition is the one google comes up with, and pretty much fits with my understanding of the word.

Complaining about the state interfering with people's wallets but being okay with the state interfering with people's lifes is insanely hypocritical. I can't find any more moderate way of putting it.

Some people cannot be fixed, even when under psychological care from the state for years; hence, they deserve to die in order to protect society. If you want to argue that capital punishment is inhumane, then what prevents life in prison from being inhumane?

Also, you don't see any connection between abortion and capital punishment?

 

[Ajidica]

Some people cannot be fixed, even when under psychological care from the state for years; hence, they deserve to die in order to protect society.

So, because something is not 'normal', we should kill it?

Also, you don't see any connection between abortion and capital punishment?

None at all. One is the termination of sentient life, the other is the termination of nonsentient life. If you are to compare 1st tri abortion to capital punishment, you should start protesting people using hydrogen peroxide to clean wounds because it kills life.

I don't want an abortion argument, so I'm not going to respond to anyone about what I just wrote. I am just pointing out the fallacies of that argument.

 

[Samson]

Some people cannot be fixed, even when under psychological care from the state for years; hence, they deserve to die in order to protect society. If you want to argue that capital punishment is inhumane, then what prevents life in prison from being inhumane?

My argument was that capital punishment was authoritarian.

Also, you don't see any connection between abortion and capital punishment?

Not really, no. One is about who makes the decision about whether to bring another person into this world, the other is about how to deal with criminals. You could say something about the rights and wrongs of legally ending life, but all the difficult questions that these issues raise are different in my view.

This really is seriously going OT though...

 

[Leoreth]

Some people cannot be fixed, even when under psychological care from the state for years; hence, they deserve to die in order to protect society. If you want to argue that capital punishment is inhumane, then what prevents life in prison from being inhumane?

Also, you don't see any connection between abortion and capital punishment?

I don't want to turn this into an "abortion and death penalty" debate. My personal opinion on this doesn't matter anyway, although I could easily repeat what Ajidica said.

My point is, no actual libertarian could put forth the arguments you just made without being a hypocrite, no matter if they are sound on their own merit or not.

 

[Cutlass]

Some people cannot be fixed, even when under psychological care from the state for years; hence, they deserve to die in order to protect society. If you want to argue that capital punishment is inhumane, then what prevents life in prison from being inhumane?

Also, you don't see any connection between abortion and capital punishment?

"deserve to die in order to protect society"? I don't think so. Anyone can be kept in a cell for the rest of their lives if that's what it takes to protect society.

 

[GhostWriter16]

"deserve to die in order to protect society"? I don't think so. Anyone can be kept in a cell for the rest of their lives if that's what it takes to protect society.

Death is chaper.

Unless you waste 10+ years on it.

 

[Miles Teg]

Death is chaper.

Unless you waste 10+ years on it.

In the United States, it costs more to execute someone, with all the resulting legal fees, than it does to put them in prison for life.

Here's a list of reasons why that's a very good thing.

 

[Ajidica]

Death is chaper.

Unless you waste 10+ years on it.

Under the current system, not really. The legal fees that accumulate from all the appeals are extraordinary, and the drugs used aren't cheap.

'Wasting ten years on it', as you put it, is a good thing here. If the state is going to put someone to death, you want to prove their guilt beyond reasonable doubt, and to make sure that it is beyond reasonable doubt. Our court system is good, but it isn't perfect. Installing as many safeguards as possible in determining whether to kill someone is a good thing.

 

[NickyJ]

So, because something is not 'normal', we should kill it?

I think serial killers are just a tad bit further off from the normalcy scale than you indicate...

 

[Ajidica]

I think serial killers are just a tad bit further off from the normalcy scale than you indicate...

Still, so the state should kill someone because they aren't 'normal'?

 

[CaptainF]

Perry clearly fancies himself a fundie fascist.

Does anyone really regard his ostentatious public "religious" displays positively?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Apparently everyone in my parents' Sunday School class does.