Riots Break Out In Venezuela

[JollyRoger]

I'll advised? You might want to check the current trends of oil and oil related stocks and the trends of same stocks over the last 5 years. Then get back to me so you can tell me how ill advised my holdings are. But I still have time to move my money if I think the net lose will to much of a risk.

Next time you want to tell me about taking personal responsibility please do your self a favour and know what your talking about. It would be irresponsible for you to make your self look foolish.

It's not ill-advised to hold a diversified portfolio. However, if you insist on holding Venezuela-related holdings, please take some self-responsibilityy for your decision to not divest despite what you know about Chavez. You have complete freedom to divest and there are ways of obtaining an otherwise diversified oil portfolio that takes out the Venezuela risk if you are so inclined.

 

[skadistic]

why do you want the failure of a democratic regime, the anarchy it may result with the suffering it goes with.
Wether you like it or not, Chavez was elected by the venezualan people. That is democracy. I don't really like Bush for example, nor do I like the Kazynski brothers, but it is up to the American people and the Polish people to decide for themselves. If Chavez is bad, he will be ousted LEGALLY

Yeah because Chavez is going to hold elections that will give the people a chance to throw his sorry ass out. The only way Hugo will leave the "president" seat is by a body bag. Any election he does allow will be a sham. Legally oust a dictator.

 

[Che Guava]

Yeah because Chavez is going to hold elections that will give the people a chance to throw his sorry ass out. The only way Hugo will leave the "president" seat is by a body bag. Any election he does allow will be a sham. Legally oust a dictator.

The elections held so far, even those that were done while Chavez had a comfy grip on power, were deemed acceptable by international observers, IIRC. He has given the people a chance to 'throw his sorry ass out' less than six months ago, and he still got over 60% of the vote, so I'm not sure why you think he is planning on setting up some somrt of dictatorship. FOr that matter, what is your definition of a dictator and why does Chavez fit that tag?

 

[luiz]

why do you want the failure of a democratic regime, the anarchy it may result with the suffering it goes with.
Wether you like it or not, Chavez was elected by the venezualan people. That is democracy. I don't really like Bush for example, nor do I like the Kazynski brothers, but it is up to the American people and the Polish people to decide for themselves. If Chavez is bad, he will be ousted LEGALLY

You always bring this up. You have to remember that it is perfectly possible for a leader to rise to power legally and democratically, and then change the rules of the game and make himself dictator.

Was Chávez elected legally and democratically? Yes (on the first time, at least)
Is Chávez government legal and democratic? HELL NO

He is now a dictator who controlls the Supreme Court and made Congress useless. It is impossible to oust him within the framework of the "Bolivarian Republic". Now that he destroyed the largest vehicle of independent media his dictatorial power is even stronger. Of course that is not enough for him and he is now going after the smaller media vehicles.

Why don't you and other Chávez apologists say what you think about Chávez closing RCTV, or his allegations that Globovisión depicting an assassination attempt against Jonh Paul II are actually encouraging assassinating him?

 

[Whomp]

You know it makes sense for Chavez to nationalize the oil industry but purely from a business perspective it does great damage to Venezuela's economic prospects to ignore the sanctity of a contract. Slapping Conoco Phillips with the largest tax bill in the nation's history has got to make some of these companies wonder. Using intimidation and the power of the state to ride roughshod over the legal system doesn't seem to be a good business decision.
It's the lifeblood of their economy and the public works projects will come to a grinding halt if their US exports shut down. Their bonds are taking it on the chin today.

Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink..

It could be bad for the US oil picture but worse for Venezuela.

 

[mrt144]

You know it makes sense for Chavez to nationalize the oil industry but purely from a business perspective it does great damage to Venezuela's economic prospects to ignore the sanctity of a contract. Slapping Conoco Phillips with the largest tax bill in the nation's history has got to make some of these companies wonder. Using intimidation and the power of the state to ride roughshod over the legal system doesn't seem to be a good business decision.
It's the lifeblood of their economy and the public works projects will come to a grinding halt if their US exports shut down. Their bonds are taking it on the chin today.

Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink..

It could be bad for the US oil picture but worse for Venezuela.

totally! i can see the short term gain as anyone can of nationalizing oil, but long term you've done yourself in. especially if you kick out the companies who are experts in producing it.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

You always bring this up. You have to remember that it is perfectly possible for a leader to rise to power legally and democratically, and then change the rules of the game and make himself dictator.

Was Chávez elected legally and democratically? Yes (on the first time, at least)
Is Chávez government legal and democratic? HELL NO

He is now a dictator who controlls the Supreme Court and made Congress useless. It is impossible to oust him within the framework of the "Bolivarian Republic". Now that he destroyed the largest vehicle of independent media his dictatorial power is even stronger. Of course that is not enough for him and he is now going after the smaller media vehicles.

Why don't you and other Chávez apologists say what you think about Chávez closing RCTV, or his allegations that Globovisión depicting an assassination attempt against Jonh Paul II are actually encouraging assassinating him?

At least we're making progress. You used to ramble on about how Chavez rigged elections, intimidated the opposition, and threatened violence against opposition supporters. Now you've finally accepted that the elections were free and fair.

Who knows, maybe in six or eight months we'll have you a Chavez supporter.

 

[Ecofarm]

Perhaps he will pull a Bob and exile/kill all of the knowledgable administrators and replace them with political cronies of little or no job experience.

Oil + crazy dictator = US quagmire (unless/until the public is really willing to fight a war). If, however, the CIA could smuggle an Al Queda cell into the Chavez government...

 

[ParkCungHee]

Legally oust a dictator.

There are legally ousted dictators. Kruschev, Mussolini, Tojo if you count him, of course, legally and democratically are two very different things.

 

[luiz]

At least we're making progress. You used to ramble on about how Chavez rigged elections, intimidated the opposition, and threatened violence against opposition supporters. Now you've finally accepted that the elections were free and fair.

Who knows, maybe in six or eight months we'll have you a Chavez supporter.

I said the first election. I don't buy that his second election was entirely fair for a minute. Maybe not as rigged as the ones in North Korea, but still not as fair as an election should be. When oppositioners are shot in the street by a militia armed by the government, something's going wrong.

 

[luiz]

Perhaps he will pull a Bob and exile/kill all of the knowledgable administrators and replace them with political cronies of little or no job experience.

He already fired most competent executives of PDVSA and replaced them for illiterate communist baboons. There's a reason why their oil production is falling.

 

[Murky]

There's a saying that goes well with this thread, "Abosolute power corrupts absolutely."

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Another socialist bites the dust. This could be a really good summer if Castro finally kicks the bucket, and Venezuela revolts and overthrows Chavez.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

I said the first election. I don't buy that his second election was entirely fair for a minute. Maybe not as rigged as the ones in North Korea, but still not as fair as an election should be. When oppositioners are shot in the street by a militia armed by the government, something's going wrong.

Like I said, at least we're slowly bringing you back to reality. Baby steps.

 

[Urederra]

Like I said, at least we're slowly bringing you back to reality. Baby steps.

And does your reality include shooting the opposition?

Since he was democratically elected in the first election, Is it OK to shoot the opposition, or there are certain limits a democratically elected president cannot cross?

 

[Drewcifer]

Who knows, maybe in six or eight months we'll have you a Chavez supporter.

If you ally yourself to those who would bring authoritarianism and civil strife to their country then you are no friend of the people.

Chavez isn't smart enough to pull off what he is trying to pull off, and he is likely a megalomaniac to boot. It is going to end in tears for Venezuela. It is sad and distasteful watching rich westerners fall all over themselves to try to make heros out of tyrants. They are no better than the right wing warhawks in the US.

 

[GoodGame]

I think this illustrates well that leaders rule at the request of their people and dictators can't last forever (in consolidating their power they usually piss off everyone).

 

[Mulholland]

totally! i can see the short term gain as anyone can of nationalizing oil, but long term you've done yourself in. especially if you kick out the companies who are experts in producing it.

Yes but even if these companies (conoco phlips et. al.) go, there are others ready to jump on their deposits. China, for example has thier eyes on Venuzuelan oil.

http://64.191.57.43/news.php?newsno=2257

Among the agreements is the creation of Petrozumano, a joint-company between the two nations with the purpose of exploring new oil and gas deposits, along with their extraction, transportation, and storage. This agreement was signed by Energy Minister Rafael Ramírez, who emphasized the importance of the agreements.

"It's infrastructure that our nation needs to take a step forward in areas of industrialization and joint-companies, as well as in other non-petroleum initiatives," he stressed.

Another agreement signed between Venezuela's state oil company PDVSA, and China's National Petroleum Corporation allows for a joint project for the production of crude oil in the Orinoco oil fields. The agreement will also create a joint venture to construct oil tankers to transport the crude, with the objective of creating its own fleet of oil tankers.

 

[Whomp]

All fine in theory, but in practice it would be rather difficult and possibly politically unsuitable for China. Check the refining capability of heavy sour oil in China. It's virtually non existant so as I said earlier,,,
Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop to drink..

Doesn't help if the US is the most capable of refining this type of crude. According to the research I've read Venezuela is near it's minimum export to the US. Last year was down ~9%.

When it comes down to the economic reality of both countries, the USA needs Hugo Chavez, and Hugo Chavez needs the USA. Mark you calendar for June 26th. We'll see who blinks.

 

[skadistic]

When it comes down to the economic reality of both countries, the USA needs Hugo Chavez, and Hugo Chavez needs the USA. Mark you calendar for June 26th. We'll see who blinks.

The US needs Venezuela oil not Hugo. Hugo needs American petrol dollars to stay in power. I hope the oil companies pull out. A stagering oil economy would oust Hugo much faster and then the taps could be running again with a capitalistic government in control or a socalist one that understands that the resources will best serve the people in a fair and open system.