[R&F] Rise and Fall Screenshot discussion

[Siptah]

Thought this chart might be helpful in regards to the question, "Is this time in history represented?" I placed each civ based on the era of its leader, not necessarily on the eras it existed (ie, Egypt isn't an "ancient" civ since Cleo reigned in Classical). I think I got everybody, but my apologies if I did not.

Ancient:
Gilgamesh

Classical:
Trajan
Cleopatra
Qin
Tomyris
Gorgo/Pericles
Amanitore
Cyrus
Alexander

Medieval:
Hojo
Frederick
Jadwiga
Jayavarman
Gitarja
Harald
Saladin

Renaissance:
Catherine
Peter
Montezuma
Mvembe
Phillip

Industrial:
Victoria
Pedro

Modern:
Teddy
Curran
Gandhi

Atomic:
-

Info:
-

Looks like we need the Hittites dearly...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Thought this chart might be helpful in regards to the question, "Is this time in history represented?" I placed each civ based on the era of its leader, not necessarily on the eras it existed (ie, Egypt isn't an "ancient" civ since Cleo reigned in Classical). I think I got everybody, but my apologies if I did not.

Ancient:
Gilgamesh

Classical:
Trajan
Cleopatra
Qin
Tomyris
Gorgo/Pericles
Amanitore
Cyrus
Alexander

Medieval:
Hojo
Frederick
Jadwiga
Jayavarman
Gitarja
Harald
Saladin

Renaissance:
Catherine
Peter
Montezuma
Mvembe
Phillip

Industrial:
Victoria
Pedro

Modern:
Teddy
Curran
Gandhi

Atomic:
-

Info:
-

Seondeok would fit in the Medieval Era, right? Also, you mispelled Curtin.

@Siptah Or an Egyptian alt-leader.

 

[Siptah]

One would have to differentiate between when the leader ruled and when the civ has its strength in the game. Montezuma and Qin are ancient leaders gameplay-wise.

 

[conorbebe]

If only there was a way the Indus Valley Civilisation could be implemented

 

[Ferocitus]

Remember that it's not just geography, but also chronology. You can have civs that occupy the same area, but at different times (Ottomans/Byzantines for example).

I'm in your debt, EP.
I'm so used to playing on ludicrous size TSL maps, against all available civs,
that I only think in terms of geography.

 

[Ferocitus]

If only there was a way the Indus Valley Civilisation could be implemented

Do you mean it won't because there is no record of a leader they could use?

 

[Lord Xavius]

I took a look at the timeline as well, looking more at dates than eras. Before Seondeok, there was a big gap between the 1st-2nd century Trajan and the 11th century Harald, so that makes her a good choice tor fulfilling multiple criteria. Even so, there's a lot of room for other leaders representing that millennium. One could theorize that increases the likelihood of Byzantium making its return. On a more modern note the 17th and 18th centuries only have Peter as a representative, while there are three for the 16th century and two for the 19th (three if you count Teddy). Not that any of this is necessarily indicative of what Firaxis mean when they talk about representing times in history, but it's fun speculating.

 

[Phoenix1595]

I took a look at the timeline as well, looking more at dates than eras. Before Seondeok, there was a big gap between the 1st-2nd century Trajan and the 11th century Harald, so that makes her a good choice tor fulfilling multiple criteria. Even so, there's a lot of room for other leaders representing that millennium. One could theorize that increases the likelihood of Byzantium making its return.

I noticed a big gap in Dark Age leaders, too. I wasn't too troubled by the lack of Atomic/Info Age leaders, and Ancient is more than rectified by the fact that "ancient" civs are covered with Classical Era leaders, but I was a bit surprised when drafting this graph how few leaders there were in between Classical and Renaissance, particularly since some Medieval leaders came quite late in the Era (I almost put Jadwiga in Renaissance, but thought against it). I know some pro-Byzantine fans would like a Komnene leader, which I admit would be my preference too, but if the developers want to cover ALL periods, an earlier Emperor/Empress would make sense.

For other " Dark Age" leaders (read: 400 AD-1000 AD), I could see a Central American civ, but I truly hope they don't resurrect Attila or some other "barbarian" horde type. The steppe people are fairly well represented by Tomyris and what looks like the Mongols (who are clear 13th-14th century Medieval Era). I don't see the benefit of adding another when other deserving civs could fill the spot.

 

[Guandao]

I can't see how, if they want civs in under-represented areas, that they could not
put something on the PNW, the very southern tip of Africa, and the west coast of
South America. I would love to see the Yaghans in as well, but they were never
numerous and have no memorable leaders that could be used.

Considering that many people wouldn't consider the Yaghan a Civilization (being hunter gatherers without cities), they would have trouble getting in even if they had memorable leaders.

Thought this chart might be helpful in regards to the question, "Is this time in history represented?" I placed each civ based on the era of its leader, not necessarily on the eras it existed (ie, Egypt isn't an "ancient" civ since Cleo reigned in Classical). I think I got everybody, but my apologies if I did not.

Ancient:
Gilgamesh

Classical:
Trajan
Cleopatra
Qin
Tomyris
Gorgo/Pericles
Amanitore
Cyrus
Alexander

Medieval:
Hojo
Frederick
Jadwiga
Jayavarman
Gitarja
Harald
Saladin

Renaissance:
Catherine
Peter
Montezuma
Mvembe
Phillip

Industrial:
Victoria
Pedro

Modern:
Teddy
Curran
Gandhi

Atomic:
-

Info:
-

A good question is will Firaxis add a leader from the Atomic or Information era? I think not, either because they are controversial or still alive.
An Assyrian/or Babylonian leader could count as Ancient.

If only there was a way the Indus Valley Civilisation could be implemented

Even if the Indus Valley Civilization had an attested language (which may or may not be Dravidian) and known leaders, I wouldn't make them a separate Civ from India. They are basically the precursors to the ancient Indians. If South Asia had to get another Civ, I prefer Sri Lanka, Nepal, Afghanistan, and possibly the Cholas/Tamils.

 

[marius_kaparius]

Remind me why the Phoenicians are a bad idea again? Wouldn't they fit an Ancient slot?

 

[Phoenix1595]

One would have to differentiate between when the leader ruled and when the civ has its strength in the game. Montezuma and Qin are ancient leaders gameplay-wise.

Correct. I based my chart on the historic period that said leaders reigned, not necessarily when his or her civ was at its height or the leader's gameplay mechanics.

 

[marius_kaparius]

Also, drones as a unit type and no info age leaders clearly shows Barack Obama as the alt leader for America

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I noticed a big gap in Dark Age leaders, too. I wasn't too troubled by the lack of Atomic/Info Age leaders, and Ancient is more than rectified by the fact that "ancient" civs are covered with Classical Era leaders, but I was a bit surprised when drafting this graph how few leaders there were in between Classical and Renaissance, particularly since some Medieval leaders came quite late in the Era (I almost put Jadwiga in Renaissance, but thought against it). I know some pro-Byzantine fans would like a Komnene leader, which I admit would be my preference too, but if the developers want to cover ALL periods, an earlier Emperor/Empress would make sense.

For other " Dark Age" leaders (read: 400 AD-1000 AD), I could see a Central American civ, but I truly hope they don't resurrect Attila or some other "barbarian" horde type. The steppe people are fairly well represented by Tomyris and what looks like the Mongols (who are clear 13th-14th century Medieval Era). I don't see the benefit of adding another when other deserving civs could fill the spot.

There are some good European choices for the Dark Ages, particularly if the de-amalgamate the Celts. Scotland and Ireland would work.

 

[WillowBrook]

Shouldn't this leader timeline discussion be in the R&F leader thread, not the screenshot thread?

 

[Guandao]

Remind me why the Phoenicians are a bad idea again? Wouldn't they fit an Ancient slot?

Not enough is known about their leaders to make them interesting personalities. We got Hiram, who helped supplied lumber for the Jewish temple, and who else?

 

[Siptah]

There are some good European choices for the Dark Ages, particularly if the de-amalgamate the Celts. Scotland and Ireland would work.

Or the Maya

 

[Guandao]

Shouldn't this leader timeline discussion be in the R&F leader thread, not the screenshot thread?

Yeah, I think this discussion should be moved to that Thread, instead of here. Here, we're supposed to talk about screenshots of the expansion.

 

[Cerilis]

We clearly need more screenshots. *hinthint@firaxis*

 

[Phoenix1595]

Yeah, I think this discussion should be moved to that Thread, instead of here. Here, we're supposed to talk about screenshots of the expansion.

I agree, and I'll do you one better and post the original graph to the R&F Leader thread, rather than General Discussion.

 

[mehmetakifsahin]

I think I may have discovered a new resource. It's in the ocean in two of the screenshots. Neither are worked. They appear to be grayish-green mats. Is this algae or coral or what?

http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/s.../a4d734f6e55e8a37964f8fbad70a092253aeeba4.jpg
In this one, it's north of the fishery and southeast of the Statue of Liberty.

http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/s.../dfce2bbc252e73ebb83f4a3bee0e13593b88965e.jpg
And in this one, there are two on the right edge of the picture. One in the top right, and one a little below that.

They seems like corals, also I think algaes may not be a beneficial source in the game