Rise from Erebus 1.30 Bug Thread

[PPQ_Purple]

I would like to report a bug with the modular loading of .nif models.
I have made a simple test.
I took one of my models and put it in the fallowing path:
Rise from Erebus\Assets\Art\PPQ_TEST
and I used the fallowing XML:

		<UnitArtInfo>
			<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_PPQ7_A</Type>
			<Button>Art\Interface\Buttons\Units\Scout.dds</Button>
			<fScale>0.42</fScale>
			<fInterfaceScale>1</fInterfaceScale>
			<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
			<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
			<NIF>Art\Units\A\PPQ_slinger.nif</NIF>
			<KFM>Art\Units\Peltast\Peltast.kfm</KFM>
			<SHADERNIF>Art\Units\A\PPQ_slinger_fx.nif</SHADERNIF>
			<ShadowDef>
				<ShadowNIF>Art\Units\01_UnitShadows\UnitShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
				<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
				<fShadowScale>1</fShadowScale>
			</ShadowDef>
				<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
				<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
				<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
				<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
			<AudioRunSounds>
				<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
				<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
			</AudioRunSounds>
		</UnitArtInfo>

So a non modular loading test of the model.
To see how it worked out take a look at nonModular.JPG


Now, I took the exact same model with the exact same XML (save for the edited location) and put it in my module.

Rise from Erebus\Assets\Modules\NormalModules\PPQ\Art\Units\Civs\PPQ\PPQ_6\A

and I used the fallowing XML:

		<UnitArtInfo>
			<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_PPQ7_A</Type>
			<Button>Art\Interface\Buttons\Units\Scout.dds</Button>
			<fScale>0.42</fScale>
			<fInterfaceScale>1</fInterfaceScale>
			<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
			<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
			<NIF>Modules/NormalModules/PPQ/Art/Units/Civs/PPQ/PPQ_6/A/PPQ_slinger.nif</NIF>
			<KFM>Art\Units\Peltast\Peltast.kfm</KFM>
			<SHADERNIF>Modules/NormalModules/PPQ/Art/Units/Civs/PPQ/PPQ_6/A/PPQ_slinger_fx.nif</SHADERNIF>
			<ShadowDef>
				<ShadowNIF>Art\Units\01_UnitShadows\UnitShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
				<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
				<fShadowScale>1</fShadowScale>
			</ShadowDef>
				<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
				<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
				<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
				<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
			<AudioRunSounds>
				<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
				<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
			</AudioRunSounds>
		</UnitArtInfo>

Indentical XML, just changed location.
To see how that worked out see Modular.JPG


This is clearly a bug with the whole modular loading thing.
It only seems to occur when I use models that are made using the SceneViewer.

Other than that, it seems to be erratic. Some of my units are bugging but others that I created the same way work fine.
An interesting note, all the units that have this bug are merged with the straw hat visible in the image.

 

[Blacklanner]

thanks for taking a look at the game. I'll look at the spoiler info later. I guess I'm just not used to the ai actually being semi effective and pursuing wonders in rife. Bumping the diff up to immortal and adding the worker seems to have helped the ai a lot, playing on emp w/o starting workers they rarely did anything.
Typically the only early wonders i see the ai build are hereon throne and the form of the titan. I'm guessing it was probably the sheiam that built it although i'm yet to meet them. i remember reading some civs had been coded to try to pursue Armageddon, and proph is a good way to do that. That early with no great eng just shocked me. Thinking about it, I think i could probably beeline it that fast if i had really good lands, and the immortal ai gets some hefty bonuses.

 

[snarko]

The AI is forced via python to make at least four warriors before they can even start a worker. Which of course delay them a lot.

Some day I hope to remove all the python hardcoding for AI but for now not touching it.

 

[Pohlmann]

dont know if its intended:

you dont get xp if you win a fight against an immortal unit.
this could be quite problematic against the new sidar or losha valas.
also it would be nice to display immortality from sidar units. or is the chance determined only before the fight?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Er... not to sound in polite but can anyone at least acknowledge the thing I posted?
Because quite honestly I am confused as to why it is happening.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

- Haste is not always wearing off

Do you by any chance have the caster still in the same tile as the unit. Because if you do I think the spell is not supposed to wear off.

 

[Viatos]

Playing as Mekara, Shapers casting Ritual. Then Armaggedon hits 100 and Shapers get raged. They won't do anything for the rest of the game and stay unclickable in the city.

Playing as Amurites, exploring first dungeon. Find Chanter with Dimension I (0.30 exp per turn!).
Balance bug or feature?

Amurite Tower Mage has access to mobility promotion. Kinda useless!

After catching Archeron he couldn't move anymore, even after a couple of rounds.

Maybe those bugs have already been posted:
- Haste is not always wearing off
- cannot switch religion after converting to one

Shapers: Interesting. There is a thread just for the Mekara Order, where you should post that.

Chanter: is supposed to have Dimension I, the issue is popping it from a dungeon, which is a balance problem, which is getting fixed along with all the other game-defining lair spawns.

Tower Mage: Sounds like a bug.

Acheron: is a she, and sounds like a bug. Additional information? Did her movement drop, or did terrain become impassable? Could this possibly be related to leash?

Haste: does not wear off if a Haste-capable caster is in the stack, alleviating the need for recasts.

Religion: Did you wait 10 turns or whatever? Civics and religions can't be rapid-switched.

 

[Valkrionn]

Actually, Acheron IS a male. Abashi is female. The bug is known, also; Comes from the RandLeash, issue with it's removal.

 

[Torugu]

The problem is I can't even click on another religion in the menu without being autoswitched to my old one.
I also noticed that AI civs never change religion on their own, I suppose that they can't, too.

There's a bug which makes it impossible to switch religions while you have units that would abandon you. Delete these units and you're good to go.

 

[Jheral]

Playing as Mekara, Shapers casting Ritual. Then Armaggedon hits 100 and Shapers get raged. They won't do anything for the rest of the game and stay unclickable in the city.

Shapers: Interesting. There is a thread just for the Mekara Order, where you should post that.

Yeah, there's a few issues with the method I used there; I'm investigating other options, but unfortunately the choice stands between DLL changes (which are out of my league) or losing control over who is targeted, so...

 

[Milaga]

I did find one strange thing. They got an event that requires a carnival before they had festivals. How did they get the carnival? I don't know.

There is an event that grants you a carnival as a possible outcome. Wandering Balseraph performers, I believe, that you can invite to stay permanently.

 

[Torugu]

I don't think this event exists in Rife. At least it never triggered in any of my games. (Does so quite frequently in WM)

 

[PPQ_Purple]

er... anyone? I am loosing hope here.

 

[Ghostslayer]

I played the (new) Grigoris, which I had not done for a very long time. I liked it. The mechanism is clearer, easier to control and it is a good thing to isolate GP and adv groth. Some remarks.

Ardor only resets the GP counter and does not modify anything for the adventurer birth. A bit weak IMHO. Is it intended?

The sidequest with fort commanders is really too powerful. Should be nerved. The problem is that you can do that on any number of units, even several time per units, and you gain 20 XP, without any counter part (except that you cannot use the unit for ten turns). Really OP. A good limitation would be to only allow one sidequest at a given time in all your civ.

I could not give twincast to my archs. Strangely my (heroic) luonnotars could get twincast (twinheal?) while my (heroic) archs with combat5 could not. Is it intended? Twincast is one the motivations to play grigoris. Too bad. The pedia text for twincast is broken. It indicates absolutely no prereq for twincast. It also indicates that twincast allows to cast 2 spells (while it was supposed to do a dual summoning IIRC).

Besides that, the grigs are great. Their main problem, without any religion, was happiness. Now, it is health, like all the other civs. And when happiness problems occur, they have the resources/tech to deal with it.

 

[Sarisin]

I don't think this event exists in Rife. At least it never triggered in any of my games. (Does so quite frequently in WM)

I don't think getting a Carnival is one of the choices.

You can get Gold, another happy face, or something else, but I don't think a Carnival.

 

[Niveras]

I could not give twincast to my archs. Strangely my (heroic) luonnotars could get twincast (twinheal?) while my (heroic) archs with combat5 could not. Is it intended? Twincast is one the motivations to play grigoris. Too bad. The pedia text for twincast is broken. It indicates absolutely no prereq for twincast. It also indicates that twincast allows to cast 2 spells (while it was supposed to do a dual summoning IIRC).

Are you sure your archmages were level 10? It is not shown in the pedia entry itself, but there is a red text requirement if you mouseover the promotion in the list ("Requires Level 10 to Acquire").

 

[Torugu]

And twincast in Rife does allow you to cast two spells. It doesn't even require Hero any more.

 

[Ghostslayer]

Are you sure your archmages were level 10? It is not shown in the pedia entry itself, but there is a red text requirement if you mouseover the promotion in the list ("Requires Level 10 to Acquire").

Right. My archmages were not level 10. And my luos were.
Should be indicated in the pedia entry. It is properly stated if you mouseover the promo, but it would be clearer in the text.

 

[Ghostslayer]

I encoutered a strange bug. Several of my units have kind of "hidden mutations". Nasty, of course. If you look at the unit, it indicates something like -10% strength, heals -45% in friendly land, bla bla...
And indeed the unit has NO mutation. Never been mutated and none is visible in the promo list.
I went to the WB and added a real mutation. This mutation is in the promo list and its effects are indicated either when I mouseover the unit or when I mouseover the mutation promo. If I remove the mutation in the WB, a new hidden mutation reappear. Mutated is not listed in the promo list, but there are visible effects in the unit description.
The only solution to get rid of it was ... to recreate a brand new unit in the WB.

In a previous game I also add a mutation that disappeared. I had a given (decent) mutation in some unit (+30% str, -4 first stikes chances and +5% healing IIRC) and when I checked several turns after, the unit was still mutated, but there were *no* mutation effect.

BTW, I must say that I am not at all convinced by the new mutation system. You have so nasty mutations that most of the time your mutated units are definitely useless even if some mutations are great. Who would use a unit with (+70% strength -55% healing) or (-60% strength +45% healing). I almost never had a unit whose mutation was really interesting.
Probably a matter of adjustment. Good and nasty changes should be limited. I don't care to have 13 extra first strike chances (yes I got that), if my unit can never heal. Either changes should be limited to say +/- 30% in strength, +/- 20% in healing, +/-5 in first strikes, etc...

But it is not only a matter of parameter fitting. Indeed I liked two things in the previous mutation system.
1/ the changes were immediately visible. If a unit got cannibalize or light it was in the promotion list and it was obvious if you wanted to select a specific unit. Now you have to mouseover the mutated promo. Much less clear.
2/ You could have extra strength, but also outstanding fonctionnality. Extra movement, blitz, ambition, cannibalize, etc. Now all is a matter of balance between you extra strength, healing and first strike chance... Rather boring IMHO.
And last, on the average, mutations were good for the units. It is no longer true...

Some random questions to finish...
* In the lairs I never found any *item* (ring of striking, rod of winds, etc...). Have they been removed in 1.3?
* When I check at the game creation "all unique features", I never get either Dragon bones or Pristina pass... (It was already true in the previous version).

Anyway, thanks for this great work.

 

[Valkrionn]

I played the (new) Grigoris, which I had not done for a very long time. I liked it. The mechanism is clearer, easier to control and it is a good thing to isolate GP and adv groth. Some remarks.

Ardor only resets the GP counter and does not modify anything for the adventurer birth. A bit weak IMHO. Is it intended?

The sidequest with fort commanders is really too powerful. Should be nerved. The problem is that you can do that on any number of units, even several time per units, and you gain 20 XP, without any counter part (except that you cannot use the unit for ten turns). Really OP. A good limitation would be to only allow one sidequest at a given time in all your civ.

I could not give twincast to my archs. Strangely my (heroic) luonnotars could get twincast (twinheal?) while my (heroic) archs with combat5 could not. Is it intended? Twincast is one the motivations to play grigoris. Too bad. The pedia text for twincast is broken. It indicates absolutely no prereq for twincast. It also indicates that twincast allows to cast 2 spells (while it was supposed to do a dual summoning IIRC).

Besides that, the grigs are great. Their main problem, without any religion, was happiness. Now, it is health, like all the other civs. And when happiness problems occur, they have the resources/tech to deal with it.

Glad you like it.

Ardor is pretty much intended that way, yes. Even if the original gameplay purpose is gone, the effect is still very much in keeping with their lore; And it is offset by the more robust Adventurer system in general.

Sidequest is being removed entirely.

Twincast requires level 10 (clearly displayed as such in the pedia, as well.), and allows you to cast two spells in a turn, rather than simply doubling summonings. The FfH method rewards summoners over arcanists FAR too much. Twincast is able to stack, as well, if you can gain a promotion with another twincast effect.

Spoiler :

Are you sure your archmages were level 10? It is not shown in the pedia entry itself, but there is a red text requirement if you mouseover the promotion in the list ("Requires Level 10 to Acquire").

It is displayed in the pedia entry.

Right. My archmages were not level 10. And my luos were.
Should be indicated in the pedia entry. It is properly stated if you mouseover the promo, but it would be clearer in the text.

Again, it is clearly displayed. And that's not something that's been added recently; Level Reqs of that sort have always been displayed in that manner.

I encoutered a strange bug. Several of my units have kind of "hidden mutations". Nasty, of course. If you look at the unit, it indicates something like -10% strength, heals -45% in friendly land, bla bla...
And indeed the unit has NO mutation. Never been mutated and none is visible in the promo list.
I went to the WB and added a real mutation. This mutation is in the promo list and its effects are indicated either when I mouseover the unit or when I mouseover the mutation promo. If I remove the mutation in the WB, a new hidden mutation reappear. Mutated is not listed in the promo list, but there are visible effects in the unit description.
The only solution to get rid of it was ... to recreate a brand new unit in the WB.

In a previous game I also add a mutation that disappeared. I had a given (decent) mutation in some unit (+30% str, -4 first stikes chances and +5% healing IIRC) and when I checked several turns after, the unit was still mutated, but there were *no* mutation effect.

BTW, I must say that I am not at all convinced by the new mutation system. You have so nasty mutations that most of the time your mutated units are definitely useless even if some mutations are great. Who would use a unit with (+70% strength -55% healing) or (-60% strength +45% healing). I almost never had a unit whose mutation was really interesting.
Probably a matter of adjustment. Good and nasty changes should be limited. I don't care to have 13 extra first strike chances (yes I got that), if my unit can never heal. Either changes should be limited to say +/- 30% in strength, +/- 20% in healing, +/-5 in first strikes, etc...

But it is not only a matter of parameter fitting. Indeed I liked two things in the previous mutation system.
1/ the changes were immediately visible. If a unit got cannibalize or light it was in the promotion list and it was obvious if you wanted to select a specific unit. Now you have to mouseover the mutated promo. Much less clear.
2/ You could have extra strength, but also outstanding fonctionnality. Extra movement, blitz, ambition, cannibalize, etc. Now all is a matter of balance between you extra strength, healing and first strike chance... Rather boring IMHO.
And last, on the average, mutations were good for the units. It is no longer true...

Some random questions to finish...
* In the lairs I never found any *item* (ring of striking, rod of winds, etc...). Have they been removed in 1.3?
* When I check at the game creation "all unique features", I never get either Dragon bones or Pristina pass... (It was already true in the previous version).

Anyway, thanks for this great work.

Shouldn't be able to lose Mutated; I'll check it out.

As for the balance: Right now it is 50/50 good and negative. I'm planning to rewrite the weight method, and weight it more towards positive effects than negative (though negative may be stronger! Depends on how much I weight it). As for effects being limited... They more or less are. What's happening is you are pulling the same promotion multiple times. It's only limited in number for each promo generation.


As for your points about the old system:

1. I agree, less clear, but FAR less cluttered, and overall better IMO.
2. You are only seeing Dynamic Mutations. That is only one half of the system, but the other half simply cannot be done until I have added multiple new tags.
3. That last point is balance, and I've already addressed it.

On lairs:

• Doubtful, but I'm going over lairs in 1.31 anyway. Once I finish my side-project, that is.
• Dragon Bones was removed as a Unique Feature (they are placed when dragons die, instead); I've seen Pristin Pass a few times, but I've also had games without it. Will look into it.