Russia Invades Ukraine

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Putin called for the talks - he had called for talks already after the first territories fell in day 1. You can't logically expect the president of Belarus to be acting alone, and then convincing Putin to be in the meeting - that is silly :p
I doubt he ever wanted "a new government in Kiev". Likely wanted continuous land to the Crimea.
Putin wanting to talk is still strange. Why would he want to do so right after invading? Doing so dumps the world's crap on him and then he says "oops, sorry."
 
I don't see how you think that is so. His goal is to have parts of Ukraine annexed (eg, a land corridor linking Crimea to the east provinces). Since Ukraine wouldn't agree to that without losing a war, it may well be the goal of this invasion. Holding random ukrainian territories with next to no russians, makes zero sense.
 
Putin wanting to talk is still strange. Why would he want to do so right after invading? Doing so dumps the world's crap on him and then he says "oops, sorry."

It's a show. He'll have his goons give unacceptable demands like he did before, then claim at home that "he tried, but Ukrainians were unreasonable" as justification for continued war.
 
Reports that Mariupol is completely surrounded. "Azov" is defending the city.

I heard on some program here too, that the Azov legion (which isn't exactly left-wing afaik), is the only one fighting there for Ukraine. (doesn't mean it is true). If so, how can they hold against an actual army?
 
I don't see how you think that is so. His goal is to have parts of Ukraine annexed (eg, a land corridor linking Crimea to the east provinces). Since Ukraine wouldn't agree to that without losing a war, it may well be the goal of this invasion. Holding random ukrainian territories with next to no russians, makes zero sense.
So you think he has changed his goals for the invasion from a new government to land acquisition?
 
don't worry , the dear people of CFC , ı will be around , God Willing , when you will be able to offer last laughs if you so desire . This is not a threat hidden behind the pecularities of the Turkish language but an acceptance of the challenge as it were . ı am not stressed . Considering during the 2014 edition the game was the mighty ISIL and rendition was a small but still distinct possibility . To locations that come before Guantanamo and where options start with and go beyond waterboarding . We will just see what happens . Am well aware ı am considered pathetic by some and for others it is an actual matter of life and death at a later date , much depending on who wins and who pays the ultimate price .

my position is clear . Russia to win , Ukraine to lose . You feel this is unlikely , apart from being gross . Much then depends on how we form our opinions . ı can imagine the news you are reading . ı have their Turkish language versions . ı also check places where they are Russian haters ; being an active member during some guy's "fall" as it were . ı have no legal authority to define whether it can be called a pathological hatred but these guys also have a professional reputation to maintain ... They are basically dudes who find out the actual events through the fog of war as much as they can , creating the numbers and the similar from which people will write the authoritive studies of this conflict by the end of the decade ...

yes , they have noted Russians basically arrived in route march columns , convinced the fighting would be really limited and "treason" would be common place , because of the deals Moscow imagined they had done with the West . As confirmed by lack of preparation and stuff that afflicted the Ukranian side as well . Despite all the rhetoric from both sides .

yes , they are aware the Russian columns get much abused , the elites kept behind , conscripts told their units were going on exercises , Chechens learning the invasion days before ethnic Russian commanders , the whole mess . These web persons are already warning eachother that it is not over yet . They would really like an epic rout of the Russian Army but they are cautioning their readers that it might very well be just starting . There are even those who think this is a very specialized form of hazing the units , some really expensive exercises which had become a Soviet staple . Any other country in the Second World War would have been broken with the casualty percentages which was the norm in the Red Army . Basically following up from the fact that the peacetime lot of the Soviet conscript could well be described as cr p , things had to be really bad for troops to have some sort of pride that would keep them going . Of course , hard to say why the division that would parade in Moscow on each VE Day would have to be tempered that way .

and yes , nobody is arguing about the China question and the little backstabbing and the last minute Chinese-American talks about eating Russia . Even less (than the term nobody) is busy examining the odd notion that Siberia is not for the Chinese . There is no risk of the Russian untermensh going Asiatic , if you people pardon the word choice , because the West would have no objection to face that away with donating 1% of their GNP to Russia for years ... These people risk being laughed at by a belief that there is very little problem in Moscow , that they have barely begun , that they will keep on and crush Ukranians bit by bit , much in the way the peace loving German Army of the 21st century still studies late at night below the blanket with the torch in hand .

totally free to disbelieve ; ı have no need to be believed . ı also sleep well at night , having "won" a few of such threads . Threads to be won or lost depending on the question of which side will bury hundreds or thousands more of young men ; it is only fitting for Russian CFC members to feel speechless . Not a call for anything , do as you please , but be aware that even success can hurt . More than you can imagine , at some unfortunate situations .
 
Putin wanting to talk is still strange. Why would he want to do so right after invading? Doing so dumps the world's crap on him and then he says "oops, sorry."
Russia always offers negotiations (so as not to fulfill them) when it faces difficulties, when its plans are collapsing - in order to gain time, tighten up strength, correct mistakes, find a weak spot, and then strike with renewed vigor!
- Dzhokhar Dudayev... allegedly.
 
liberation of the Kurdish Nation State is like delayed by a decade .

edit: Spelling
 
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I heard on some program here too, that the Azov legion (which isn't exactly left-wing afaik), is the only one fighting there for Ukraine. (doesn't mean it is true). If so, how can they hold against an actual army?
AFAIK they have some heavy weapons, including tanks and have good defensive positions in the center.
It can be very difficult and time consuming task to beat them out of there, especially having to restrain in using artillery, air support, etc. in urban areas.
 
The only "winner" that could come from this war is Putin. He's turning Russia into a pariah state and drawing sanctions that will make life for the average Russian difficult just to satisfy an ego trip
I doubt his ego is feeling very well right now.
I also don't see how he can turn what has happened so far into any kind of personal win.
Feeling carefully optimistic we'll see him go the way of Ceausescu yet.
 
Talks seen odd I bet Putin will make unreasonable demands.

Sanctions etc will remain in place until Russia pulls out and I bet a few will stay on due to Crimea and Donbass.

Not gonna get a return to status quo even if Ukraine agrees to sign over territory. Even if they agree to that land grabs won't be recognized and some sort of sanctions will remain.

Monday here few hours Hong Kong markets open.
 
They haven't committed anywhere near all their forces.
They probably has. The useful ones at least. Anyway lets remember that invading Irak, a country much smaller than Ukraine both in land area and population, and weakened by years of embargo and a previous devastating war, required more than 300,000 soldiers from armies much better equipped organized and trained than the Russian one.
Thinking Russia is going to even try to invade Finland, a country-fortress and probably a nut harder to crack than Ukraine, while is trying to invade Ukraine (and for now failing) is a bit unrealistic to say the least.
 
Putin wanting to talk is still strange. Why would he want to do so right after invading? Doing so dumps the world's crap on him and then he says "oops, sorry."
I can see two reasons :
- First, it's just PR bullcrap, like all the hot air before the invasion, it's for show and to be able to pretend he did try peace and has no choice (when I see the complete dumbarses even in some french forums I frequent that just fall back on their knee-jerk "yeah I'm sure it's USA fault", it's sad to notice that his attempt actually can work on some, though hopefully they are a small minority).
- Second, it might be that the situation in Ukraine is really a thorn in his foot and doesn't seem to go where he intended it to, and he has the wisdom to know when to fold it.

I believe much more in the first than the second (that's the problem with "strongmen", they rely so much on bravado and machismo that they can't allow to "show weakness", so even if the military situation was dire I'm not sure Putin would retreat), but I admit that his decision to put the nukes on alert reek of desperation.
 
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