Russian Currency Crisis

[LamaGT]

South West Asia, alcohol is prohibited by the Koran. You have to look harder.

J

Indochina is not muslim. Plus, there are plenty of muslim countries where alcohol is sold.

 

[Ajidica]

Indochina is not muslim. Plus, there are plenty of muslim countries where alcohol is sold.

Unless my compass is badly failing me, Indochina would be in South East Asia. South West Asia seems to suggest the -istan region of the world (you know, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, etc).

 

[Phrossack]

Westerners self-criticize ceaselessly. It's Russians who can never bring themselves to to it.

I mean, look at any Russian poster here. They, without exception, always take Russia's side in any given debate. When someone points out something unflattering about Russia or dear Putin, the Russians either deny it, employ as much Whataboutism as possible, or both. They can't debate without thinking "And you are lynching Negroes."

Now, in person Russians may be different. But here, they all look like nationalists with a siege mentality who are incapable or unwilling to ever self-criticize. Compare with the unending barrage of criticism Western posters have for their own countries.

 

[Hygro]

Westerners self-criticize ceaselessly. It's Russians who can never bring themselves to to it.

I mean, look at any Russian poster here. They, without exception, always take Russia's side in any given debate. When someone points out something unflattering about Russia or dear Putin, the Russians either deny it, employ as much Whataboutism as possible, or both. They can't debate without thinking "And you are lynching Negroes."

Now, in person Russians may be different. But here, they all look like nationalists with a siege mentality who are incapable or unwilling to ever self-criticize. Compare with the unending barrage of criticism Western posters have for their own countries.

Sure but when there's 200 Americans and 4 Russians, you don't have much room to self criticize when everyone's talking ish about your country.

 

[Phrossack]

Sure but when there's 200 Americans and 4 Russians, you don't have much room to self criticize when everyone's talking ish about your country.

Numerous Americans here are apologists or cheerleaders for anything Russia does, and it's the national pastime of most countries to criticize America. We have a few vocal, uncritical, nationalistic cheerleaders for America here, but they're very much in the minority and tend to be opposed by everyone else.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Openly discussing US foreign policy and strategy as any historian or political academic would appears to be, for many here, indistinguishable from 'criticizing America' or even 'anti-Americanism'. Is the USA an astutely-run, self-interested superpower or a some sort of superhero from a Disney cartoon? I'd say for most of those guys it really is, in their imagination, like the latter. That's the power of propa... sorry, PR--but there are still others capable of having grown-up conversations.

 

[red_elk]

But here, they all look like nationalists with a siege mentality who are incapable or unwilling to ever self-criticize.

Guess what's happening on Russian-speaking forums, with a few Americans participating in discussions about politics.

 

[Farm Boy]

Bronyism?

 

[red_elk]

I appreciate your sarcasm.

 

[Farm Boy]

Call it hope!

 

[Hygro]

Numerous Americans here are apologists or cheerleaders for anything Russia does, and it's the national pastime of most countries to criticize America. We have a few vocal, uncritical, nationalistic cheerleaders for America here, but they're very much in the minority and tend to be opposed by everyone else.

When America was just starting its ground wars last decade imagine 50% Americans here most of whom cheerleading the USA and getting faiiiirly angry at dissent.

Yes it would be cool if we had more Russian posters, and with more diversity of opinion. Oh well. Let's not antagonize the few we have... ?

 

[Phrossack]

When America was just starting its ground wars last decade imagine 50% Americans here most of whom cheerleading the USA and getting faiiiirly angry at dissent.

Yes it would be cool if we had more Russian posters, and with more diversity of opinion. Oh well. Let's not antagonize the few we have... ?

That was a decade ago, when CFC was a very different place and a great deal of today's posters, myself included, were not here. Things have changed. Most of the American posters here now quite vocally oppose the American nationalists.

Sure, America's crap, and crappier than many other countries. Only idiocy or malice could make someone think I think America's #1. I'm an anti-patriot and an anti-nationalist, though people don't listen to me, they just listen for certain words, phrases, and arguments so they can instantly categorize me as a conservative. Posters here routinely confuse me with other posters and misattribute positions and posts to me. Possibly on purpose. They assume that if I'm critical of Russia and occasionally argue that America isn't the Great Satan, I must be a flag-waving patriot who chants "U.S.A! U.S.A!" everywhere I go.

But at least Americans are willing and able to acknowledge America's problems. And when 100% of Russian posters vocally support Russia 100% of the time while deflecting any criticism of Russia with protests of А у вас негров линчуют ("and at your place, they are lynching Negroes"), how could things get any worse? What are they going to do, support Russia 150% of the time? They've made up their minds.

 

[Hygro]

That was a decade ago, when CFC was a very different place and a great deal of today's posters, myself included, were not here. Things have changed. Most of the American posters here now quite vocally oppose the American nationalists.

Sure, America's crap, and crappier than many other countries. Only idiocy or malice could make someone think I think America's #1. I'm an anti-patriot and an anti-nationalist, though people don't listen to me, they just listen for certain words, phrases, and arguments so they can instantly categorize me as a conservative. Posters here routinely confuse me with other posters and misattribute positions and posts to me. Possibly on purpose. They assume that if I'm critical of Russia and occasionally argue that America isn't the Great Satan, I must be a flag-waving patriot who chants "U.S.A! U.S.A!" everywhere I go.

But at least Americans are willing and able to acknowledge America's problems. And when 100% of Russian posters vocally support Russia 100% of the time while deflecting any criticism of Russia with protests of А у вас негров линчуют ("and at your place, they are lynching Negroes"), how could things get any worse? What are they going to do, support Russia 150% of the time? They've made up their minds.

People think you're conservative? They should, as you point out, read your posts.

The reason I bring up how things were was because nationally internal conditions will affect the international discourse. It's just a role reversal. That said, back then I was pretty critical of the jingoistic pro-adventurist Americans, and there's no reason a Russian analog should get a pass, except maybe that it's tiring to have so many antagonists relative to allies.

 

[LamaGT]

I was to South-East Asia this last year a few times for about two months altogether... And, man, I had never seen so many heavy drinkers and alcoholics in all my lifetime! Most of them (like 90%) were crazy Ozzies and the rest were other types of Anglo-Saxons and Western Europeans, then several Japanese and several Russian ones.

Unless my compass is badly failing me, Indochina would be in South East Asia. South West Asia seems to suggest the -istan region of the world (you know, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, etc).

Westerners self-criticize ceaselessly. It's Russians who can never bring themselves to to it.

I mean, look at any Russian poster here. They, without exception, always take Russia's side in any given debate. When someone points out something unflattering about Russia or dear Putin, the Russians either deny it, employ as much Whataboutism as possible, or both. They can't debate without thinking "And you are lynching Negroes."

Now, in person Russians may be different. But here, they all look like nationalists with a siege mentality who are incapable or unwilling to ever self-criticize. Compare with the unending barrage of criticism Western posters have for their own countries.

That's because Russians aren't going to discuss internal issues on an English speaking forum with Americans.
Actually this is an excellent case of pot calling the kettle black. You might criticize as much as you want the crappy health care, rigged elections and whatnot, but not many Americans here have any real criticism to American foreign policy (or hell, at least recognizing it for what it is).

It doesn't help that all of the news sources you have access to are 10th hand or so, often full of stupid stereotypes or just outright wrong. It's as if I told you "This article here says America is evil because they lynch Negroes there". You'd get just as defensive, and for good reason.

It's interesting that whataboutism doesn't really work the other way, when an American uses it on a Russian. For example the war in Chechnya isn't supported here by most Russians, and yet if someone brings up the Iraq war, there will always be that SO winner who will say "but we didn't annex anyone!1!!11!".

 

[Phrossack]

That's because Russians aren't going to discuss internal issues on an English speaking forum with Americans.
Actually this is an excellent case of pot calling the kettle black. You might criticize as much as you want the crappy health care, rigged elections and whatnot, but not many Americans here have any real criticism to American foreign policy (or hell, at least recognizing it for what it is).

It doesn't help that all of the news sources you have access to are 10th hand or so, often full of stupid stereotypes or just outright wrong. It's as if I told you "This article here says America is evil because they lynch Negroes there". You'd get just as defensive, and for good reason.

It's interesting that whataboutism doesn't really work the other way, when an American uses it on a Russian. For example the war in Chechnya isn't supported here by most Russians, and yet if someone brings up the Iraq war, there will always be that SO winner who will say "but we didn't annex anyone!1!!11!".

Actually, Americans here and in person do often oppose American foreign policy. Look at any thread on US torture or drone strikes or nearly anything about American foreign policy. You'll find plenty of American critics, as well as a few blind American nationalists, who are then criticized in turn by other Americans. We do express our opposition to our government and culture, and quite openly. Australians and Britons are also quite open in their views about their own countries, and have no qualms expressing them here, or about expressing their opinions about the US. Russians do. There's the old joke that Russia and the United States actually have some things in common: One is perfectly free to openly criticize the United States in either country.

Every nationality that has more than three or so members here criticizes both America and their own country. Every nationality except the Russians.

 

[red_elk]

They assume that if I'm critical of Russia and occasionally argue that America isn't the Great Satan, I must be a flag-waving patriot who chants "U.S.A! U.S.A!" everywhere I go.

Then, perhaps you can understand that posters who are critical of America and occasionally argue that Russia isn't the Great Satan (or isn't any worse than America in its foreign policies), aren't flag-waving nationalists either.

 

[Farm Boy]

That's the Twilight Sparkle I was looking for.

 

[LamaGT]

Actually, Americans here and in person do often oppose American foreign policy. Look at any thread on US torture or drone strikes or nearly anything about American foreign policy. You'll find plenty of American critics, as well as a few blind American nationalists, who are then criticized in turn by other Americans. We do express our opposition to our government and culture, and quite openly. Australians and Britons are also quite open in their views about their own countries, and have no qualms expressing them here, or about expressing their opinions about the US. Russians do. There's the old joke that Russia and the United States actually have some things in common: One is perfectly free to openly criticize the United States in either country.

Every nationality that has more than three or so members here criticizes both America and their own country. Every nationality except the Russians.

You're like a little kid. For you, what you don't see, doesn't exist.
Actually there are plenty of spaces in the Russian internet where people criticize the government VERY openly and VERY explicitly. On foreign policy, too.

Your post is basically similar to "Russians are weak and don't fight for their freedom!11!! They can't even say a word against their leader!1!!1 Bears walk around the streets and drink vodka!1!!!". Those are exactly the stereotypical assumptions I was talking about.

 

[Hygro]

Then, perhaps you can understand that posters who are critical of America and occasionally argue that Russia isn't the Great Satan (or isn't any worse than America in its foreign policies), aren't flag-waving nationalists either.

quoted for noted.

You're like a little kid. For you, what you don't see, doesn't exist.

Didn't you literally tell him that Americans here aren't critical of US foreign policy when Americans here, as he points out, are routinely critical of US foreign policy?

 

[Phrossack]

You're like a little kid. For you, what you don't see, doesn't exist.
Actually there are plenty of spaces in the Russian internet where people criticize the government VERY openly and VERY explicitly. On foreign policy, too.

Your post is basically similar to "Russians are weak and don't fight for their freedom!11!! They can't even say a word against their leader!1!!1 Bears walk around the streets and drink vodka!1!!!". Those are exactly the stereotypical assumptions I was talking about.

You ARE a kid, if I recall. Aren't you still a teenager? Like, 15 or something?

You're putting words into my mouth. You know I never said anything of the sort. This is the crap I get all the time. People don't listen to my arguments; they listen for familiar words and phrases in order to pigeonhole me as someone I'm not. You, in this case, invented a Phrossack who believes in all stereotypes about Russians because he hates them, although the real Phrossack was making statements about the Russian posters here and not in general.

After introducing a personal (and amusingly hypocritical) attack into the discussion, you then, as Hygro pointed out, actually committed the same fallacy you falsely accused me of using! If only people actually bothered to read my posts and understand them as things in their own right without pigeonholing them and attacking them for doing things they don't...