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Scapegrace's Stunningly Spurious Sivs. =]

Discussion in 'Civilization Design Resources' started by Scapegrace, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    Added Taungu to The Celestial Majesties and The Kiowa to Set Atop A Hill. Hope they're interesting! =]
     
  2. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    Lol what took you so long? ;)

    (Interesting indeed)
     
  3. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    Well, mostly because I wasn't sure which version to put in this thread; the one in here is the one I came up with for DMS a few weeks back, while the one in the Mechanics Challenge thread is a later iteration. =]

    EDIT: Been on a bit of an archive binge. I've added the following:-

    Colchis, Urartu, and Nicaea to Knowledge Is A Lighted Lantern;

    Brabant, Limburg, La Tene, Epirus, and Rasenna to Bauble Of The Gods;

    The Choctaw to Set Atop A Hill;

    Angola Janga to Southern Cone Initiative;

    And finally, Yi to The Celestial Majesties.

    ...

    I have no life at all. Enjoy! =]
     
  4. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

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    You know, I find it kinda funny than none of your "Southern Cone Initiative" civilizations is actually from the Southern Cone. :lol:

    Commenting on the designs themselves though, I'd really like Gatoutak to use your design over his, so kudos for that. I just feel like the Palmarista is over developed, which is a common trend within your civilizations. The first Unique Promotion I think could perfectly do without the extra combat strength on secondary attacks, I'd even dare say it's overkill given that the rest is incredibly powerful already.

    Care to give some context for the Suriname civilization? I see a lot of Plantation and culture stuff, which I guess I kinda get given the geography of Suriname, but the names are impossible for me to discern.
     
  5. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    In order:-

    ... Yyyyyyyeah. I haven't really done many Civs from South America. Leugi and sundry others rather have them on lockdown. =]

    On the Palmarista: Well, the reason it has all those promotions is because it has a markedly lower Combat Strength than your Marine, on account of it being available so much earlier. They're not going to be of much use when your opponent's kicking around with Riflemen, Cavalry, and the like. However, you're right in that I tend to overdesign stuff - I want my designs to feel unique, and yeah, that can lead to overcomplicated units and buildings. I just personally prefer that to underdesigned units that end up not doing anything well cough cough Mohawk Warrior cough splutter.

    Suriname's names are a bit abstruse, yeah, but I tried to make them fitting. "Kupali Yumi" (tree of ancestors in the Carib dialect) was where the Caribs first settled in Suriname, and I wanted that as the name because it felt awesome. The "Amara Plantation" comes from the plant Quassia amara, an indigenous medicinal plant named after Graman Quassi, a famous freedman; it's a Hospital replacement because the plant is antimalarial and an organic pesticide, which works for a Food building. Incidentally, Broos (the leader) is also a freedman, a Maroon who led his kin during the Maroon Wars and freed a lot of slaves. Finally, "Bushinengue" is another name for the Maroons, as is "Bakabusi" from the unique Promotion. The "Cockpit" UI is so named because of the names for the freedmen's hideouts in the jungle - as in, a pit for making cockerels fight each other, rather than them living in aeroplanes (which might get a bit cramped). I hope that was informative. =]
     
  6. Klisz

    Klisz King

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    For the Surinamese UB I'd suggest calling it the Quassia Plantation instead - it's much more common to refer to a plant by just its genus than by just its specific epithet.
     
  7. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    Ah. I'm an idiot, though not for the reasons you specify. See, I evidently got confused because the colloquial name for the plant is amargo, not amara. I didn't want to use Quassia because that's the Bonus Resource it gives. I'll amend things accordingly. =]
     
  8. Uighur_Caesar

    Uighur_Caesar Comandante en Jefe

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    The colloquial name is amargo? That's kind of weird since amargo is Spanish for bitter and Suriname speaks Dutch.
     
  9. Klisz

    Klisz King

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    The Dutch Wikipedia's article on Q. amara is titled Bitterhout, so I suspect Surinamese Dutch borrowed that word from Spanish or Portuguese.
     
  10. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    The English language wikipedia entry also gives "bitter oak" as a name for the plant in question, so that does make a bit of sense. =]
     
  11. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    Edit: THEY'RE HEEEEEEEERE!

    Rwanda, Burundi, Sennar, and Tanzania have been hammered into shape by the Free State of DMS. Which is so awesome. You can find links in the OP! =]
     
  12. kul

    kul Prince

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    Congrats Scapegrace! Would more of your ideas here are going to manifested in the real world? Are "Danmasch & Scapegrace" the new "JFD & Janboruta?
     
  13. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    Nonono. DMS and Scapegrace is the new Anyone and Scapegrace, in that I just howl gibberish into the uncaring void and kind souls take pity on me. It's... it's more like JFD and JFD's Slightly Dim Pet Monitor Lizard. =]
     
  14. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

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    Alright, let's do something stupid:

    Spoiler :
    Malawi (Kasyombe Kyungu)
    Start Bias: Hills
    UA: Flames of the Fire
    Clearing Forests, Jungles, and Marshes and improving Resources with Mines generates a flat amount of Culture. Gain one free social policy whenever a Technology that reveals a Resource is researched.
    (NB: this UA works like the production boost from chopping Forests. The list of resources is as follows: Stone, Iron, Coal, Aluminium, Uranium, Copper, Silver, Gold, Gems, and Salt.)
    UB: Nyau (replaces Temple)
    +2 Faith. +1 Culture from any Resources whose yields are directly increased by a specific Building (e.g. Deer in cities with a Granary, but not Bananas in a city with a University) after said Building is built.
    UI: Thangata Enclosure (replaces Pasture)
    Takes 25% less time to construct compared to Pastures. Generates +2 Production on Horses and Cattle, +2 Food on Sheep, and +1 Gold on both. However, each one gives +1 Local Unhappiness in the City working it.

    I think this is my favourite civilization from this bunch. However I fear it may be a tad too powerful. Not only does it generate Culture from doing normal actions really early, it actually does have a very easy way to gain extra social policies, and that's always a dangerous situation, as Poland so very well shows. I'd change one of the two effects in the unique ability for a Science boost, or some other yield, but somehow I think Science is best.

    What I pointed out above isn't helped much by the fact that the Nyau also further boosts culture, once again, couldn't another yield work? The effect also feels somewhat arbitrary, I'm not sure if it'll be easy to tell which resources affect it, unlike the UA which can work even with custom resources as it's just dependent on mines.

    The Thangata is the weakest part of this civ, an UI replacement simply doesn't work, and the effect of it probably makes it weaker than the Improvement it replaces anyways, I think an unique unit would be better in this place.


    Spoiler :
    Sierra Leone (Sir Milton Margai)
    Start Bias: Coastal
    UA: Return Ye Ransomed Sinners Home
    +1% Growth and Great People generation bonus in the Capital per foreign International Trade Route sent to Cities you own. +5% Faith generation bonus per Trade Route you initiate.
    UB: Mende Palisade (replaces Castle)
    +7 City Strength, +25 HP. +75% Strength vs. Siege Units. +1 Great Engineer points from Lumber Mills when at peace. Costs twice as much as the Castle it replaces.
    UU: Teilaleimui (replaces Rifleman)
    Lower Combat Strength than the Rifleman it replaces (30 vs. 34), but has higher Movement (base 3). When at war with a Major Civilization, generates additional Gold and Faith per kill. When at peace, increases Great People generation rate when garrisoned in a City you founded by +10%.

    I have a slight feeling that the UA will more often than not be so underwhelmingly weak it may as well not exist. I'd make it flat yields instead of percentages, and even then I think it's rather weak. The second part of the UA in particular feels like just a rehash of the Arabian faith bonus from trade routes. I feel like the UA should be made more powerful and, if possible, changed so the player can control the circumstances under which it is effective.

    The Mende Palisade is an odd building by various motives. For starters, shouldn't it be a Wall Replacement? I mean, it's a Palisade... beyond that, it basically enables autokilling siege units, which is an unique effect, I admit, and also makes besieging this civilization impossibly obnoxious, which I guess goes along well with the intended UA that's geared towards a more peaceful civilization. The Great Engineer points feels like overkill, but then again, it costs double production, and that's a whole lot.

    That Teilaleimui is overpowered af. Not only it generates yields when you send it to combat, but it's incredibly mobile and boosts Great Person generation by a significant amount during peace. I think you simply stacked too many effects on this unit, so I'd get rid of a couple of them, maybe even refocusing the entire unit.


    Spoiler :
    The Gasa Empire (Soshangane)
    Start Bias: Grassland
    Capital: Manjakazi
    UA: IsiShangane
    After fully annexing a foreign City and connecting it to your Trade Network, both that City and the Capital generate +20% Culture. Courthouses generate additional Culture per turn and Hurry Production in the Capital upon completion.
    UU: Mavulandlela (replaces Lancer)
    Unlike the Lancer it replaces, the Mavulandlela does not constitute a Mounted Unit and does not require Horses, though it retains the Formation I promotion and the base movement of 4 (both of which are retained upon upgrading). Instead, it has the unique promotion "Open The Road", which grants adjacent units a +33% Combat Bonus if they attack the same target as the Mavulandlela. Upgrades to Rifleman.
    UU: Maviti (replaces Great Engineer)
    Upon expenditure, the Maviti automatically connects the city in which it is expended (or the one closest to it) to your Trade Network, and increases the Culture output of Connected Cities by +10%.

    A different take on the Cultural-Conquest Civilization, nice. I've started to see a tendency of your civilizations in affecting the Capital, which is kinda weird. Here in particular why don't you just have the Courthouses generate Culture & Production? Roughly the same effect and doesn't make your civilization so dependent on the Capital for once also, just to spice things up, why not have annexed cities reduce culture cost for new policies when connected to trade network? Just an idea, to shake things up.

    The Mavulandela is a weird unit, may I know the story behind it? Because it moves hella fast for a non-mounted unit and I'd like to know what got you to make some guy on foot move so fast. Aside from that, the unit is good, I guess, nothing much to comment here.

    The Mavity, once again, feels like overkill when taken alongside the effects of the Unique Ability. It further increases culture generation (why is it always culture?) and connects cities to the trade network, which I don't even know if it's possible. But I simply feel like it's overkill bearing in mind it just repeats the UA's effects.


    Spoiler :
    The amaXhosa (uXhosa)
    Start Bias: Plains
    Capital: Mthatha
    UA: Ubuntu
    Conquered Cities spend 1 turn less in Resistance for every amaXhosa City connected to your Trade Network. Upon the birth of a Citizen, start a 5-turn WLTKD in a randomly selected amaXhosa City.
    UB: Umzi (replaces Stable)
    Does not specifically require Horses, but grants +1 Food from Animal Resources (Cattle, Sheep, Deer, Bison, Horses, Ivory, Furs) and grants a +15% bonus to Land Unit Production instead of just Mounted Units.
    UU: Buto (replaces Rifleman)
    Faster and stronger than the Rifleman it replaces (40 vs. 34), the Buto also starts with Charge and the unique promotion "Gcugceka", which grants a boost of Food in the nearest amaXhosa City upon Pillaging a Farm or Pasture tile.

    Funnily enough, this feels like an expansion to the prior civilization. Another civilization which focuses on City Connections and Conquest. My main complaint is not related to that, which is fine, but the second part, are you aware of the snowball capacity it has? WLTKD increases food in city, which produces more citizens, which triggers more WLTKD, so on and so forth, the civilization would be unstoppable.

    The Umzi is interesting, radically different from the stable I dare say, I think I like it, of course you lose the 1 to 3 production points you usually get from a stable, but having an early and possibly second forge in all your cities, one that adds food on top of that, certainly and more than does make up for that.

    The Buto once again has this feel of overkill, granting even more food, as if the Xhosa needed it, I'd change the yield to something else or, well, get rid of that aspect of the unit given than the other ones already make for a significantly interesting unit.


    Spoiler :
    Namibia (Henrik Witbooi)
    Start Bias: Coastal
    Capital: Windhoek
    UA: Giraffe Leg
    Incoming and Outgoing International Sea Trade Routes generate +2 Gold for each non-coastal Namibian City connected to your Trade Network. +1 Gold and Production from Resources on Hill Tiles.
    UU: Oorlam (replaces Lancer)
    Unlike the Lancer it replaces, the Oorlam does not require Horses or count as a Mounted Unit and retains the Pikeman's +50% Combat Bonus against Mounted Units as well as Formation I. In addition to this, the Oorlam generates Gold per Kill and starts with the unique promotion "Khoikhoi Commandos", which grants them double movement and a +33% bonus against slower Units on Open Terrain - useful, considering their Base Movement is only 3. Upgrades to Cavalry.
    UB: Rossing Facility (replaces Nuclear Plant)
    +5 and +33% Production. Consumes 1 Uranium, but has a chance to turn a pre-existing Mine into a Uranium Mine upon construction. Additionally, all Uranium Tiles IN THE EMPIRE generate +1 Gold and grant a +5% Gold bonus for outgoing International Trade Routes to the closest Namibian City.

    I like this UA, it's simple, but controlable, like some sort of powered up Morocco, I mean, this is just gold, and not that much at that, but still, I guess it's something (?)The hill bonus is... more gold, and somewhat limited at that? OK, the UA may be a tad on the weak side, but I think it's still passable.

    Hehe, Yet another Lancer replacement. They simply aren't very beloved, are they? For a non-mounted unit, it's a freakishly fast unit, that looks like potentially 6 moves per turn, I believe that's overkill, nevermind the fact that it has other bonuses on top of that. I really don't see why it does need to generate gold from kills to be honest.

    The Rossing Facility is very interesting, you don't see that many Nuclear Plant replacements. I like the idea of both creating more Uranium and the global bonus, but the global bonus being a mere rehash of what the UA already does is incredibly lame.


    Spoiler :
    British Somaliland (Arthur Reginald Chater)
    Start Bias: Desert
    Capital: Berbera
    UA: A Thousand Resolute Men
    Wounded Enemy Units in Somaliland Terrain take 25% additional damage. Gain a boost of 30 Production in the Capital every time an enemy Military Unit takes damage from a British Somali Citadel.
    UU: Gideon Force (replaces Marine)
    Faster than the Marine it replaces, the Gideon force is also cheaper and starts with the unique promotion "Arbgenoch", which grants it a +25% Combat Bonus when attacking Mechanized or Armoured Units and a further +33% Bonus against any units from Civilizations who own a British Somali City. Upgrades to XCOM Squad.
    UU: Camel Corps (replaces Anti-Tank Gun)
    +100% Combat Bonus against Armoured Units. Additionally, has much greater base Movement (4 vs. 2) and Combat Strength (65 vs. 50) than the Anti-Tank Gun it replaces, as well as a unique promotion, "Wilson's Hajana", that grants an additional +25% Combat Bonus while defending against Land Units (stacks with Cover). May move after attacking. Upgrades to Modern Armour.

    A nice little defensive bonus, it's obnoxious, but I think it can be dealt with, I may reduce the percentage to 20% but honestly it looks fairly tame in general, it's mostly a matter of being extra careful with military incursions. The second part of the UA is fairly lame, it relies on AI stupidity and even then it's so circumstantial it may as well not exist, why Capital?

    The Gideon force is, uh, a nice upgrade for an useless unit I guess (?), I feel like it still doesn't remove the fact that the unit is so circumstantial more often than not it'll end up being useless, but it's a try. I presume it keeps the unique upgrades in the rare case you get to upgrade it, but it's not like it matters at that point in the game.

    The Camel Corps makes the Gideon force feel even more redundant. Shouldn't it be some Cavalry replacement anyways? It really makes the Gideon Force completly redundant, and I'm not sure that was your intention.


    Spoiler :
    AOI (Amedeo Savoy-Aosta)
    Start Bias: Desert
    Capital: Addis Abeba (note the E)
    UA: Bande Irregolari
    Occupied Cities stay in resistance 25% longer, but gain a free Courthouse and generate a free Military Land Unit upon Annexation. Land Units gain a +20% Combat Bonus while attacking for each point of movement they are faster than the target unit.
    UU: Penne De Falco (replaces Landship)
    Requires Horses instead of Oil, and has a lower Combat Strength than the Landship it replaces. However, it starts with Charge and a unique promotion, "Meharisti", which grants a +5% Combat Bonus for each promotion the unit has earned. Upgrades as normal.
    UU: Divisioni Celeri (replaces Infantry)
    Weaker and more expensive than the Infantry it replaces (60 vs. 70), but much faster, with both a base movement of 3 and the unique promotion "Carro Veloce", which grants it double movement on open terrain. Upgrades to Tank.

    That's some very interesting UA. I think I like it quite a bit, as it removes tedious micromanagement from conquest campaigns. The second effect in particular is really creative, so kudos for that, hope it's codeable at all.

    The first UU, well, why isn't it just named "Mehariste"? It's nice I guess, a simple replacement for an unit that isn't used that much, potentially powerful, but I think not excessively so.

    The Division Celeri, maybe Zaptie could be better? Dunno, the name looks obscure just for the sake of it. Once again, it's a freakishly fast unit, would it be like some early version of the Mechanized Infantry? This civilization justifies it better though,a subtle way for increasing its speed without stating it outright. I don't really see why it needs to upgrade to tank, which is actually unlocked on the same era.


    Spoiler :
    Republic of Cabinda (Luis de Gonzaga)
    Start Bias: Forest
    Capital: Cabinda
    UA: Alvor Rejection
    Bonus, Strategic, and Luxury Resources grant a +5% bonus to Gold, Military Unit Production, and Culture respectively. Every Ideological Tenet selected grants a percentage boost to Culture in all Cities equal to the Tenet's Level.
    UU: FLEC (replaces Marine)
    Generates Culture per kill and has the unique promotion "Pointe Noire", allowing it to generate both additional Culture per kill and transform captured Civilian Units into a random, non-obsolete unit for which you have the requisite technology. Upgrades to XCOM Squad.
    UB: Petrochemical Firm (replaces Stock Exchange)
    +3 and +33% Gold, as well as +2 and +10% Production. Additionally, rather than 2 Merchant Specialist Slots, the Petrochemical Firm instead contains 2 Engineer Specialist Slots.

    Ah, the poor little province that got stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think the UA's first part works well enough on its own, the second half feel tacked on and not really necessary to be honest.

    The FLEC having two promotions for generating Culture for kill is incredibly bizzare.I'd just get rid of the first culture per kill part because, really, there's no need for it. Aside from that, this is a much better replacement to make the Marine an actually worthwhile unit.

    The Petrochemical firm is... reminds me a lot of the Stock Exchange replacements you had done for Danmasc's civs. I've got no real idea what's the need of the Engineer specialists here or why they should replace the Merchant slots either. I guess it's got something to do with the production boost, but I simply don't get it.


    Spoiler :
    Sagallo (Nikolay Achinov)
    Start Bias: Desert
    Capital: Nova Moskva
    UA: Cossacks Of Tadjoura
    Tiles are improved 50% faster than normal, and Pasture Resources are automatically improved. +1 Production from Desert and Flood Plains Tiles for every Major Civilization Hostile towards you.
    UU: Terek (replaces Cavalry)
    +1 Movement. Starts with Shock I and II, and generates a small Production Boost in the Capital whenever it Pillages a Tile. Cheaper than the Cavalry it replaces, and upgrades as normal.
    UB: Sagallo (replaces Castle)
    +6 City CS, +15 City HP. Costs no Maintenance and is cheaper to construct than the Castle it replaces. It also provides +1 Food, Production, and Gold from any Desert or Flood Plains Tiles with Resources.

    And we got to the "this thing totally existed, I swear on my mum! part of your civilizations. That's a nice, simple, creative bonus you found for this civilization, but I think it'd be capable of doing too many stupid things alongside a Liberty opener, so I'd tone it down a bit, pastures auto-improving is overkill at this point. The second part of the UA is pretty amusing, I presume being at war with another civilization means they are hostile towards one, so I think it's something that's actually controlable. I can see this civ being pretty fun to play.

    Does Cavalry really need +1 movement? I know the Austrian Hussar has, but I'm not really feeling it for the Terek. I find funny that you had to state it upgrades like normal, it tells a lot on how these cavalry replacement tend to go, I don't think it really needs Shock 1 and 2, I dare say it really shouldn't have that on top of its unique effect.

    So Sagallo has Sagallos... fortunately this is not an unique unit or you'd have the worst unit name ever. Naming issue aside, it's a nice little building, a simple, nice boost for a desert bias civilization.


    Spoiler :
    Republic Of Maryland (John Brown Russwurm)
    Start Bias: Coastal
    Capital: Harper
    UA: Cape Palmas Mission
    Upon meeting another Major Civilization, generate Faith equal to 50% of their total Faith output for the next twenty turns and gain a +5% Gold bonus in the Capital. Buildings that generate Faith cost no Maintenance.
    UU: Seaside Grebo (replaces Trireme)
    Weaker (7 Strength vs. 10) and hugely more expensive than the Trireme it replaces, but faster. May be expended to produce a copy of the unique Oyster Bonus Resource on a Sea Tile within range of a City, which may be improved with a Fishing Boat. Oysters yield +1 Food, receive +1 Food and +1 Gold from a Lighthouse, and a further +2 Food and Gold from a Seaport. This is in addition to the bonuses from these buildings. Oyster Tiles may not be adjacent to another Oyster Tile, but may be adjacent to a Pearls Tile. The Seaside Grebo upgrades to Caravel as normal.
    UB: Colonization Society (replaces Harbour)
    Forms a City Connection with the Capital over Water. Extends the length of Sea Trade Routes from the City in which it is built and adds +4 Gold to their value. Generates +2 Faith, and generates an additional +1 Faith from Sea Resources when an International Sea Trade Route is being sent to or from that City.

    I'd take a page off Araucania & Patagonia and suggest you just get a flat Faith amount upon meeting a civilization, it helps grabbing a Religion fast while keeping the spirit of your idea, and it'd actually encourage you to reach out and meet them instead of just hunkering down in your own territory so you can save your bonus to be able to use it for longer. The second part is, not terrible, but not amazing either. Fine I guess (?).

    That's a terrible Trireme replacement if you intend to go to war, but paradoxically enough I believe it's incredibly busted as it allows you to get stupid amounts of Luxuries to trade. So I can't say I'm comfortable with that. The unit feels like an excuse to put Oysters here rather than a design meant for the unit itself, really.

    I guess the Colonization Society is a nice, not too redundant, third element that joins the entire civilization together. I like it, by far the best part of the civilization, it really ties everything together.


    Spoiler :
    Ghana (Kwame Nkrumah)
    Start Bias: Grassland
    Capital: Accra
    UA: Pan-Africanism
    Upon signing a Peace Treaty, generate Golden Age points equal to the Culture output of the other Civilization's Capital for the duration of the deal. +1 Local Happiness from buildings with a Specialist slot.
    UU: Ankobia (replaces Longswordsman)
    Rather more expensive than the Longswordsman it replaces, the Ankobia is faster, may move after attacking, and ignores enemy Zones of Control. Additionally, it receives the unique promotion, "Soul Disc", that allows it to increase the primary yields of all Specialists in the City in which it is garrisoned by +1. Upgrades to Musketman.
    UB: Highlife Studio (replaces Broadcast Tower)
    Unlike the Broadcast Tower it replaces, the Highlife Studio has a slot for a Musician Specialist. Additionally, Great Musicians are +5% cheaper for every Highlife Studio whose slot for a Great Work of Music is filled.

    Yeah, that's totally not an UA name that pops up frequently within African Civilizations. The UA effect is pretty weird if I may say so, once again it's sorta like Araucania & Patagonia, but with Golden Age Points. I guess this is a Warmongery-ish civ? Not really what I'd expect from Ghana, or Panafricanism really. The extra Happiness could work better if you simply reduced unhappiness from Specialists, I think.

    The Ankobia is really powerful. I think you tackled too many effects on it. Does it really need the extra movement? Actually, I remove at least 2 elements of the unit before thinking it's anywhere near fair.

    I like the idea of the Highlife Studio having a global effect, but if I'm understanding this correctly, this effect would begin to snowball in an hilarious manner, as each Studio will reduce Great Musician by 5% by each studio with slots filled. So if I read this correctly, I'd end up with something like a 20% reduction just out of 2 Studios with filled slots (Each Studio reduces (5X2)%) and it'd get worse from there. So... yeah, percentages are funny.


    Spoiler :
    Cameroon (Ibrahim Njoya)
    Start Bias: Jungle
    Capital: Yaoundé
    UA: Shu Mom
    The Palace, in addition to its slot for a Great Work of Art, also has a slot for a Scientist specialist. Specialists generate +1 of their primary yield for each Building generating that yield.
    UB: Basel Mission (replaces Factory)
    Only grants +2 and +25% Production, unlike the Factory it replaces. However, it contains a Scientist Specialist slot as well as 2 Engineer Specialist slots, generates +1 Faith for every Specialist worked in the City in which it is built, and does not require Coal.
    UU: Foumban Sultan (replaces Great Scientist)
    Rather than an Academy, the Foumban Sultan can be expended to create a Palast, which yields 3 Production and Gold in addition to the normal 8 Science. +2 Science at Scientific Theory and Atomic Theory. +1 Production at Architecture and Railroad. +1 Gold at Banking and Biology. +4 Science from New Deal tenet.

    Ain't this the Bamum guy? Kinda odd to see him leading Cameruun the country, but whatever. That some very powerful, early Science bonus, I think this civ has the potential to snowball too fast, something that's not made easier by, well, the UA further improving the yields of the specialist.

    The Basel Mission is, well, it adds to the Science focus of the civ which I guess makes sense, it's a generous amount of faith, but at that point in the game I doubt it matters much anyways.

    That Palast is the most busted improvement I've ever seen. Not what ifs or buts, that's just a load of yields in a single tile, I'd really reconsider it. There's no other element that makes this Great Person Special and as such I guess not much more to say here.


    Spoiler :
    Dahomey (Agaja)
    Start Bias: Plains
    Capital: Abomey
    UA: Xwetanu
    Capturing an enemy Capital and advancing to a new Era trigger a We Love The King Day in the Capital. Certain Military Technologies* grant a +25% Combat Bonus for 10 turns after they are researched and make Upgrading Military Units 5% cheaper.
    UU: Mino (replaces Pikeman)
    The Mino is rather different to the Pikeman it replaces, having a +33% Combat Bonus against Gun Units and the ability to generate Science per kill. Additionally, it is a Gun Unit itself, and starts with both Mobility and the unique promotion "Dahomey Amazons", which allows it to generate a flat amount of Science when Pillaging a tile with a Resource. However, it only has a +25% Combat Bonus against Mounted Units. Upgrades to Musketman.
    UB: Akuehue (replaces Barracks)
    Not only does the Akuehue not cost any Maintenance, unlike the Barracks it replaces, it actually generates +2 Gold per turn for each Science building in the City in which it is built. Generates an amount of Science upon the construction of a Military Unit equal to twice said unit's Combat Strength.

    I think this civilization was extensively discussed already. So not much more to say in that department, the combat bonus in the UA is completly bonkers.

    Shouldn't the Mino by a Musketman replacement? They were much more known as Flintlock users rather than pikes, heck, to whole Dahomey dominance as a state was thanks to their early access to gunpowder weapons.

    Akuehue does have too many effects tackled onto it, but given than the UA is completly busted to begin with, it's kinda pointless to discuss this part too.


    Spoiler :
    Soninke Empire (Mayan Dyabe Cissé)
    Start Bias: Plains
    Capital: Koumbi Saleh
    UA: Kaya Maghan
    Cities generate +10% Culture for each different Luxury Resource within the Empire's borders. Luxury Resource Tiles yield +1 Gold for each other copy of that Resource within range of both the relevant City and the Capital.
    UU: Ghana (replaces Great General)
    Unlike the Great General it replaces, the Ghana also counts as a source of 1 Iron, which may be traded as normal. Additionally, it may be expended for a Customs House in addition to a Citadel and has a base Movement of 4.
    UU: Kuralemme (replaces Knight)
    In addition to generating Gold per Kill, the Kuralemme also generates a much larger amount of Gold than normal when Pillaging Tiles containing Luxury Resources and generates 200 Culture when Pillaging Caravans. Upgrades to Cavalry. Requires Iron rather than Horses and does not count as a Mounted Unit.

    Blessed by the rains of me commenting the last civ of Africa. I'd really reign in that UA, like, a lot, I'd reduce the culture bonus to Luxuries improved within city borders rather than empire wide. Once again, I'm really not sure what's the point of tackling the Capital on the second part of the UA.

    Hehe, the Ghana is not an unit from Ghana. Ok, having said that, the effect is terribly weird, why not just make it grant 1 free Iron upon Generation? It'd really make it way less needlessly complex. The other two effects are fine I guess, though part of me wonders if both are really necessary.

    Ah, yet another unit that generates gold from kills for no real reason than because it can. I see the Kuralemme is a raider unit, but I think the other two effects are enough, hell, I think one of them enough would be enough. Any reason why it requires Iron instead of Horses? Guess that it's for synergy with the great general, though it not being a mounted unit should mean it has some historical basis on it being... really quick people on foot(?), maybe just making the general generate 1 horse on birth too would be a more cleaner solution.
     
  15. kul

    kul Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    315
    Location:
    Jawa Barat, Indonesia
    Hoop.. I love how you decided to simply walk into Scapegrace's thread and do such a brave and noble commentary. Ive got several points on my own but youre definitely the bigger man than I am and managed to pull those off. Simply put, we all doing the wacana here.
    Also, when I read your reply to me this morning, Scapey, when I had just woken up, I though I imagined the latter part of your text. Guess not lol.
    Hey, got any idea about civ from Indonesia? This thread makes me want to start my own design-believe thread on my own with Indonesian civs..
     
  16. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,463
    Location:
    Chile
    Spoiler :
    Ottoman Beylik (Orhan Bey)
    Start Bias: Grassland
    Capital: Sogut
    UA: Pelekanon And Onward
    Land Units gain a Combat Bonus in foreign territory that increases the closer they are to that Civilization's Capital. Upon Declaring War with a Major Civilization, receive a copy of a Unique Unit for which you have the requisite Technology from a Civilization not in the game.
    UU: Yaya (replaces Longswordsman)
    Cheaper and weaker than the Longswordsman it replaces, the Yaya is faster, with the +1 Movement promotion. They also receive the unique promotion "Anvil of Marica", which allows adjacent units deal +50% bonus damage when defending against Mounted Units and +33% when attacking them. Upgrades to Musketman as normal, but does not require Iron.
    UU: Timariot (replaces Lancer)
    The Timariot is unlocked at Banking and has the unique promotion "Jebelu Muster" that allows adjacent Ottoman units to earn Experience 50% faster when defending. Requires Horses. Upgrades to Cavalry.

    I like the idea of getting random unique units, but the part about getting extra combat strenght from proximity to enemy Capital feels like something that'd be too easily abusable, unless you're having a pitiful army you'll always have the upper hand, no matter what, and I'm not sure if that's something you want in a domination civilization.

    The big question I have about the Yaya is... why does it replace the Longswordsman? As I read it, it's an unit that takes the role of the Pikeman and performs it much better, so why not just make it a Pikeman replacement? It even looks like a stepping stone between spearman and lancer with that extra movement.

    So I guess the Timariot is the answer, given that it's unlocked immediatle after. Not much to mention about it other than it's one of the most simple unit designs I've seen of yours, I'm actually surprised I'm seeing such a simple unit here.


    Spoiler :
    Pontus (Mithridates VI)
    Start Bias: Coastal
    Capital: Amaseia
    UA: Eupator Dionysus
    Generate +20% Culture in the Capital for each Major Civilization with whom you are at war. Generate +0.5 Influence per turn with any City-State with whom you have a Trade Route for each foreign Capital you control.
    UU: Takabara (replaces Swordsman)
    Does not require Iron. Slightly stronger than the Swordsman it replaces (16 vs. 14), the Takabara starts with Charge and a unique promotion, "Sagaris", that grants a +33% Combat Bonus on the first turn they enter combat with an enemy Unit. Double Movement on Hills.
    UB: Heroon (replaces Monument)
    +2 Culture. +1 additional Culture and Faith for every City-State whom you are sending a Trade Route.

    So some sort of... Cultural version of Hitler I guess? (Never thought I'd ever write that). Once again I'm not sure why the UA needs to be Capital centric, maybe reducing the flat percentage but allowing all your cities to reap the benefits would be better, so the UA isn't so geared towards tall civilizations. The second part of the UA is terrible to balance, and it escalates poorly. Plus half Influence is pretty much nothing, and by the time it's a significant advantage you're going to win anyways, so I really don't see the whole need for it.

    So the Takabara basically deals extra damage on it's first comfrontation? I can live with that, I don't see the need for the extra movement, or the Charge promotion, but I like the idea of a charged first strike.

    Heroon is meant to be used alongside the second part of the UA I guess. It compensates slightly the disadvantages of sending trade routes to city states, but given that this civ doesn't have any more faith elements, I'm not sure if it's worth it.Good for an alternative strategy I guess.


    Spoiler :
    Colchis (Kuji)
    Start Bias: Forest
    Capital: Aia
    UA: Heads Of Kartli
    Each Courthouse in the Empire adds an additional +2 to all the yields of the Palace. Begin with a unique World Wonder in the Capital that provides +4 Gold, +4 Happiness, and +1 Culture - a yield which increases by +1 each time you advance to a new Era.
    UU: Milesian (replaces Worker)
    Generates +1 Gold in the Capital and closest Colchian City while constructing a Tile Improvement. This bonus is doubled if improving Luxury Resources. May be expended to hurry Military Production in the Capital.
    UU: Sceptuchus (replaces Great General)
    Generates +2 Gold, Production, Science, Culture, and Faith when garrisoned in a non-Occupied City. These yields increase by +1 for each Courthouse in the Empire.

    I feel like this one makes a better job at tying the Capital organically while not forcing one to go tall. The World Wonder I think is too busted, particularly given that you both start with it and it gets even better as you progress, it's just an advantage that never fades away and already gives you a huge headstart over the rest.

    The Milesian is an interesting take on a Worker UU, I'm not sure why it does to generate gold both for capital and city it's improving, and personally think it's not real necessary. Making it able to rush units is really a cherry on top of an already good unit.

    The Sceptuchus feels like just more forced synergy. Why not just make it generate those yields IF garrisoned in a Courthouse city? I think that blends more organically with the conquest styling of the civilization


    Spoiler :
    Urartu (Semiramis)
    Start Bias: Coastal
    Capital: Tushpa
    UA: Reach Of Argishti
    Gain a +2% Military Production bonus in all Cities for each Major Civilization with whom you are trading a Strategic or Luxury Resource. Generate +2 Faith for each Major Civilization with whom you have a direct land border.
    UU: Mare-Man (replaces Chariot Archer)
    Unlike the Chariot Archer it replaces, the Mare-man is a melee unit. Also vastly different to the Chariot Archer, it starts with Formation I, +1 Movement, and the unique promotion "Suri of Haldi", which grants a +5% Combat Bonus for every Shrine and Temple in the Empire, to a maximum of +50%. Upgrades to Knight.
    UB: Sisi (replaces Temple)
    +2 Faith. Costs no Maintenance, and generates +1 Faith for each Military Unit trained or purchased for Faith in the City in which it is built. Each Sisi lowers the cost of purchasing Military Land Units with Faith by -5%, to a maximum of -50%.
    Yay a bonus that affects all cities! :p I like this civilization, it encourages the paradoxical approach of settling aggresively while playing peacefully, and that in my experience has always led to interesting gameplay. Just go, be landgrabby and pick your friends well, I love it.

    There's only one relevant question to make about the Mare-man... does it lose all movements on difficult terrain? To be honest the main issue here actually is why'd you ever want to train horsemen having Mare-men available, shouldn't it replace that unit?

    Damn that Sisi building is strong, not only gets rid of the main issue with the Temple, which is maintenance cost, but it also keeps increasing faith production every time you train a new unit, if I understood correctly and reduces faith purchases. This building is busted and then some more.


    Spoiler :
    Nicaea (Theodore I)
    Start Bias: Coastal
    Capital: Nicaea
    UA: To Regain Constantinople
    Land Units gain a +25% Combat Bonus when attacking enemy Cities, rising to +50% if the target City used to be owned by you or a Civilization with whom you have a Declaration of Friendship. Captured Cities convert to the Empire's majority Religion.
    UU: Allagion (replaces Longswordsman)
    Weaker than the Longswordsman it replaces (17 vs. 21), the Allagion is cheaper to build and may be bought with Gold at half the usual price. However, its true power lies in its unique promotion, "Pronoiarios", which grants a +5% Combat Bonus while attacking for each Bonus or Strategic Resource Tile within range of the City in which it was trained, and a +10% one for each Luxury Resource Tile within range of that City. Each bonus maxes out at 50%. Requires Horses instead of Iron.
    UU: Archontopoulai (replaces Knight)
    Unlike the Knight it replaces, it starts with Formation I, Cover I, and a unique promotion, "Sons Of The Victorious Dead", that allows them to deal +33% additional damage to any unit that has killed a Nicaean unit, including Cities. Similarly, it has no Combat Penalty against cities either. While more expensive, it is considerably cheaper to buy with Faith and does not require the Holy Warriors belief to do so.

    Well, that's certainly a way to take back Constantinople. I don't even know what the point to restricting the UA to land units only, but damn if it ain't a powerful UA, what about restricting it to hand units only? Just to shake things up and not have some stupidly powerful siege. The riders of the UA feel fine, it's a huge bonus, but it's so high but then again so circumstantial most of the time it won't even matter.

    The Allagion is an intersting unit. Mounted I guess? I don't see the need to differentiate amongst types of resources, I'd just give it a +5% from worked resources, no need to make it so needlessly complex. I don't even need it needs a cap either, since I can't imagine too many scenarios where it could reach over 50% anyways.

    I like the Archontopolai's focus on "avenging" units, not so much all the other promotions you threw in with that, overdeveloped much? I've never been in favor of units that can be purchased with faith without requiring the Belief, but I guess some people like that.
     
  17. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,139
    Location:
    Ashdod,israel
    Wow. Shame not everyone had the privilege of getting feedback on their designs. :(
    (Nothing personal, just saying)

    Anyway I just wanted to say that you have been slightly unfair IMO... You can't expect more than 10 designs based of the same continent to greatly differ from each other. Its your opinion though, I just thought that I should point this out...
     
  18. TranquilSilence

    TranquilSilence Grumpy Snufkin

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2014
    Messages:
    1,470
    Location:
    Bright Side of the Road
    I'm pretty sure that you can in fact expect that, given that regardless of being from the same continent, civs are often based on pretty disparate cultures.

    I do feel that there are some overriding core features that pop up in a lot of Scape's civs (Capital focus, Courthouses and Lancers seem to show up often), they are still interesting to read however and all have some degree of uniqueness. Obviously civs like Cameroon need some toning down (especially given how strong science is), but that is easily attended to.

    That's my opinion in any case, I do agree with the majority of Hoop's feedback but also look forward to seeing more of your designs collected here (particularly your collection of British and Irish kingdoms *hint,hint*).
     
  19. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,325
    Location:
    Kent
    That pack was atrocious and would need serious reworking.

    Then again, 90% of my Civs are atrocious and need serious reworking. A lot of the stuff in Palais Du Rhin as it stands is kinda old, so that's a point, but I haven't really learned from it for the newer stuff, which is less of a point. =[

    EDIT: In retrospect, this seems a lot whinier than I thought it would. I didn't mean to sound like I was getting at anyone, and if I did, then I apologise for doing so. I also had no intention of sounding ungrateful to Hoop for going through my Civs with a fine-toothed comb and pointing out what does and doesn't work. It's actually really helpful to get this level of feedback, and I'm trying my best to learn from it. =]
     
  20. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,437
    Location:
    The Trucial States.
    err you what? So 11 Asian civs would be too many, right? If we have Israel, Arabia, Tibet, China, Mongolia, Korea, Persia, Babylon, India and Malaysia but if someone were to make Japan then it'd be too far?
     

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