SCOTUS rules that military has right to recruit on campus

IglooDude said:
I spent four years at a university and saw nary a single corporate recruiter during my stay. Come to think of it, I didn't see any military recruiters there, either. ;)

At Cambridge your more likley to end up as a spy than in the military, and in the cold war as a spy for the Russians or MI6:)
 
Eh, not all military jobs are bad.
Jet fighter pilot seems to be a really cool job. Plus once you're done with your commitment, you can become an airline pilot making 6 figures.
 
College is a place to learn things that you will most likely never use again in your life and get a degree so you can get a better paying job.
This attitude disgusts me. You're not dispelling any stereotypes about military people, that's for sure.
 
MobBoss said:
Uhm...they dont lie. If they did, they wouldnt get many recruits in the long run. You tried this false accusation in another thread, and were shot down repeatedly by people who did sign up for bonus's and did get those education benefits no problem.
Oh they did lied and its not a false accusation. The people who did signed up for the bonus's were lied to by the fact. I chose not not accept that my accusations were shot down, because what I believe in from thoes anti war sites such as www.militaryfreezone.com are actualy true.

Here are more lies from the recruiters that I have found:
Background:
Investigators began examining this case in 2003, after a Marine made allegations to recruiting officials that recruiters were falsifying documents and asking Marine applicants, during the enlistment process, to conceal background information such as past drug use or medical issues.

In addition to his own fraudulent enlistments, the recruiter was apparently encouraging other recruiters in the substation to conceal applicants' background information to help them make their quotas.

"He wasn't just committing it himself, he was counseling his recruiters under his charge to do the same thing," White said. (Marine Corps Times, Nov. 1, 2004)

CONCLUSION:

* Marine, Staff Sgt. Lance A. Shetrompf, 28, of Naples, Fla., who was court-martialed in December 2003
* Charged with 27 counts of enlistment fraud and other charges!
* Illegal recruitment practices were being pushed on recruiters from top down - not just a few "bad apples" in the recruitment bunch!

Background:
In Jan. 2002 the Indianapolis Star published a report on the troubling state of the Indiana Army National Guard and how the Guard inflated membership to obtain federal money. Among the allegations was that recruiters forged potentially hundreds of physicals to enlist unqualified recruits.

"Leaders of the Indiana Army National Guard inflated membership numbers by counting soldiers who had left the ranks and retaining soldiers who routinely missed weekend training....These actions of the state Army National Guard, the sixth-largest in the country, are described in records obtained by The Indianapolis Star." (Indianapolis Star, Jan. 20, 2002)

National Guard Sergeant was found guilty during court marshal of conspiring to forge physical exam documents and only sentenced to seven days in jail and a $1,000 fine!!!

CONCLUSION:

* The investigation that led to the trial found that more than 150 soldiers were enlisted without valid physicals from October 1999 to March 2001.
* Recruiter only got a small penalty - nothing to really set a high standard or send a clear message against illegal recruitment tactics!
* These Problems were occurring to help push the demand of state budget needs…. Imagine what is occurring now to meet federal demands and increases on military recruiters!!!

In 1997 the Navy investigated a recruiter who arranged for a recruit to hide drug use from a routine urine test by drinking a 'kidney cleanser'.

A spokesman for the US Navy's New England recruiting district in Boston said the investigation into the Holyoke recruiting station is focusing on one incident. But Petty Officer Robert Natereli, who was assigned to the Holyoke office at the end of May and reassigned in August, said in a recent interview that other officers at the recruiting station arranged for at least two others seeking to join the Navy to take the drug-concealing drink.

In something of a ritual in the office, Natereli said, recruiters would drive the 20 miles to Enfield, Conn., to purchase 16-ounce bottles of the substance, which the manufacturer says is a health-food drink that flushes toxins from the kidneys. The product was used at least twice successfully this summer by recruits to mask drug use, Natereli said.

In the case of his recruit, Natereli said another recruiter drove the young woman to the store in Connecticut, purchased the substance for $ 42, and told her how and when to drink it. (Boston Globe, Sep. 15, 1997)

CONCLUSION:

* More proof of going to extremes to get kids into the military and meet quotas!
* Long history of these misleading recruitment practices!
* Small punishments

MobBoss said:
Well, now with this SCOTUS ruling, we can tell exactly who is in the wrong when this happens.
Most likely the recruiters will still be in the wrong since they are forced to make their quotas.

Just a little background information for you MobBoss, I am a very stanch anti-War person since Gulf War II and hate everything that goes on with regards to the US military and the Bush Administration. Before this whole unjust war started, I even considered on enlisting (Though my mother did not want me because I was an only child and my Step-Father said that I would not make it in boot camp). Untill the unjust war started, I read all the materials the anti-war sites provided and started to dislike the US Military for their actions in Iraq and thus the thought of enlisting left my mind.
 
MobBoss said:
College is a place to learn things that you will most likely never use again in your life and get a degree so you can get a better paying job.

I don't think you go to university to learn how to do your job unless your either staying in acadaemia for the rest of your life or your going to become a scientist. A degree is not about what you know, it's about learning a methodology for Science art or whatever. These aren't skills that are non transferable, which is why some jobs ask for a degree. There asking not what do you know about the stockmarket say that you learned in a physics degree? The brain drain into the sotck market of physisists in this country was due to the difficulty of the course, the ability to think in non deterministic ways and maths skills. If you think a degree in biology is about learning just about physiology, physionomy genetics and biochemistry then there's very little reason to go to university IMO.
 
Excellent, this will help America, and by extension help me.
 
Irish Caesar said:
And just what sort of idiotic reasoning did the Ivy League present?

Just curious.
They used the argument that the military's gay "Don't ask, don't tell" policy was discriminatory against gays, and violated their discrimination policy, and it would be against their rules for the military to recruit on their campuses.

It was really a stupid argument to make. It was a unanimous decision too. They got completely smacked down by the Supreme Court.

As I see it, this was definently the right decision. If you want the government's money, then you have to play by the government's rules. If you don't want their money, then that's fine too, but while you do you're going to have to suck it and do as they say.
 
CivGeneral said:
Oh they did lied and its not a false accusation. The people who did signed up for the bonus's were lied to by the fact. I chose not not accept that my accusations were shot down, because what I believe in from thoes anti war sites such as www.militaryfreezone.com are actualy true.

Here are more lies from the recruiters that I have found:

Most likely the recruiters will still be in the wrong since they are forced to make their quotas.

Cough. If you notice the guy who broke the regulations was caught and punished. There is a price to be paid if you are a recruiter and you engage in this type of behavior. As in every job, there are always individuals that break the law. However, you would take a single incident (or even a few incidents) and try to paint the picture that this is the NORM....well it isnt...not by a long shot. The vast majority of recuiters out there do their job legitimately and they are not "engouraged" to lie to prospective recruits.

So, when people who post here regularly, like Igloodude and others say that they indeed get their bonus's or benefits that you just discount them outright? :crazyeye:

EDIT: By the way, there is no such thing as a "drug concealing drink" out there. Your body produces byproducts called metabolites when it process various drugs. Its the processed material that is tested for, not the drug material itself. There is no product that "magically" accelerates the body's natural way of flushing these out. So that part of your story is just plain silly.
 
MobBoss said:
So, when people who post here regularly, like Igloodude and others say that they indeed get their bonus's or benefits that you just discount them outright? :crazyeye:
I dont believe in what the military says anymore. All I see it now are just fishing lures just to make their quotas.
 
Sidhe said:
I don't think you go to university to learn how to do your job unless your either staying in acadaemia for the rest of your life or your going to become a scientist. A degree is not about what you know, it's about learning a methodology for Science art or whatever. These aren't skills that are non transferable, which is why some jobs ask for a degree. There asking not what do you know about the stockmarket say that you learned in a physics degree? The brain drain into the sotck market of physisists in this country was due to the difficulty of the course, the ability to think in non deterministic ways and maths skills. If you think a degree in biology is about learning just about physiology, physionomy genetics and biochemistry then there's very little reason to go to university IMO.

I will agree that methodology can indeed be more important to a job than what you actually learn in college. The ability to do valid research and find what you dont know is more important IMHO than learning something and then forgetting it prior to having a chance to apply it years down the road.
 
There should not be any military recruiters reruiting for the Empire of America's military machine in our college campuses, regardless if they are public or private.

What Civgeneral seems to forget is that people serve in the military whether a republican or a democrat is president of the "EMPIRE".

Tell me MobBoss, where in his original post did he mention Democrats or Republicans? It sounds to me like you are trying to turn his argument into a partisan one so you can have an opportunity to blast Democrats and laud your glorious GOP.

Sorry for going off-topic and my possible troll, but I just can't stand it when people (both Dems. and Reps.) try to turn every debate into a partisan issue. Forget your damn party affiliation for once and just focus on the true content of people's arguments.

AND I'M NOT JUST SAYING THIS TO MOBBOSS, I'M SAYING IT TO EVERYONE.
 
CivGeneral said:
I dont believe in what the military says anymore. All I see it now are just fishing lures just to make their quotas.

Uh...the people saying this are no longer in the military......:crazyeye:
 
MobBoss said:
Uh...the people saying this are no longer in the military......:crazyeye:
I certanly dont believe in what the vets have to say.
 
Commodore said:
Tell me MobBoss, where in his original post did he mention Democrats or Republicans? It sounds to me like you are trying to turn his argument into a partisan one so you can have an opportunity to blast Democrats and laud your glorious GOP.

As I am very, very familiar with how Civgeneral hates the current administration, but not democrats (he views them as peace loving flower tossers) I wanted to illustrate that we need a strong military regardless of who is in power. When civgeneral says this: hate everything that goes on with regards to the US military and the Bush Administration to me it seems he links the military with the republicans so completely that he fails to realize that we all need recruiters to be able to recruit intelligent people regardless of our political compass.

Sorry for going off-topic and my possible troll, but I just can't stand it when people (both Dems. and Reps.) try to turn every debate into a partisan issue. Forget your damn party affiliation for once and just focus on the true content of people's arguments.

AND I'M NOT JUST SAYING THIS TO MOBBOSS, I'M SAYING IT TO EVERYONE.

Uh...question for you....do you think its Republican professors trying to bar military recruiters from college campus's? Hardly. At is very root this is a partisan issue regardless of what you may think, but it shouldnt be, as we all need a strong military....but apparently some people seem to forget that.:rolleyes:

CivGeneral said:
I certanly dont believe in what the vets have to say.

Unless, of course, its something negative...then you would agree with it by all means.
 
The military has to make up its mind. If it's a career; then it should be restricted to career-info exchanges (where there are numerous companies and other institutions as well). If it's not a career, it has no business in universities - like any other recruiter.

When I was in University I hated being troubled by Philips, Shell etc. outside career-info exchanges.
 
Rik Meleet said:
The military has to make up its mind. If it's a career; then it should be restricted to career-info exchanges (where there are numerous companies and other institutions as well). If it's not a career, it has no business in universities - like any other recruiter.

When I was in University I hated being troubled by Philips, Shell etc. outside career-info exchanges.

Well, actually, the colleges need to make up their mind. Will they turn down federal funds in order to deny recruiters access? That's the real question.
 
CivGeneral said:
I certanly dont believe in what the vets have to say.

Well then, you might as well put MobBoss, me, and all the other vets on CFC on your ignore list, to spare us a little bit of typing and spare yourself from reading our opinions and viewpoints. :shake:
 
MobBoss said:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-03-06-10-10-36

SCOTUS rules unanimously in favor of the military. Even Darth Vader Ginsberg woke up long enough to vote.

Seems it does make sense to let the federal military recruit on a campus if that campus takes federal funds.:goodjob:

Dammm straight wished they passed this law back during the Vietnam War though.
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I dont see any this to be a major issue at all. Provided Military recuitiers ahear to strict "code of conduct"
(And target republicans :D )

EDIT: Ahhh the irony the IRONY.
Republicians were "angry" at being targeted by Amry recuitiers. Logically the army thought republicains who are more pro-war would be more willing to join the army.
 
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