SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game
- Thread starter TheOverseer714
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Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
IMO, it would make more sense to earmark a MGL for it; the shields used to build it would be more immediately beneficial if used to build units, and it would probably be just as quick.
IMO, it would make more sense to earmark a MGL for it; the shields used to build it would be more immediately beneficial if used to build units, and it would probably be just as quick.
Northern Pike
Deity
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- Jul 29, 2003
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Lurker's comment on lurker's comment: 
Armies are so important in AW that it's rarely a good idea to use a Leader for the FP unless you've already got all the armies allowed by your city total, and the Pentagon, and in most cases the HE. In the GR series we've found little reason to deviate from using the first four Leaders for three armies and the Pentagon.
Armies are so important in AW that it's rarely a good idea to use a Leader for the FP unless you've already got all the armies allowed by your city total, and the Pentagon, and in most cases the HE. In the GR series we've found little reason to deviate from using the first four Leaders for three armies and the Pentagon.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Lurker's comment on lurker's comment:
Armies are so important in AW that it's rarely a good idea to use a Leader for the FP unless you've already got all the armies allowed by your city total, and the Pentagon, and in most cases the HE. In the GR series we've found little reason to deviate from using the first four Leaders for three armies and the Pentagon.
lurker's comment:
OK, thanks for sharing the benefit of your considerable AW experience; what, then, would you advise under these circumstances (there being no suitable candidate for handbuilding it)?
Lurker's comment:
Wait on it. Once you get into the action you may find that you can muster up the leaders. It may turn out that you can afford to hold off on making 4 armies right off. I would expect that to be the case at AWM on a std map.
Remember NP is palying on 31 civs 250x250. You are swamped by units, even at AWM. If it turns out you have 3 others on the land (likely) and you already have one crippled, you do not have to deal with a lot of incoming.
Especially if many have to come form a long ways off with no roads. Plus you will be able to force them into a narrow area. Not have to defend a large area on all sides.
Wait on it. Once you get into the action you may find that you can muster up the leaders. It may turn out that you can afford to hold off on making 4 armies right off. I would expect that to be the case at AWM on a std map.
Remember NP is palying on 31 civs 250x250. You are swamped by units, even at AWM. If it turns out you have 3 others on the land (likely) and you already have one crippled, you do not have to deal with a lot of incoming.
Especially if many have to come form a long ways off with no roads. Plus you will be able to force them into a narrow area. Not have to defend a large area on all sides.
Northern Pike
Deity
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- Jul 29, 2003
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Just waiting on developments as Vmxa advises would be fine for the moment. Once other cities have grown a little in population and can produce units at a reasonable rate, Hamburg will be an acceptable place for the FP pre-build if you want one.
Vmxa's comment about the difference between 8-civ and 31-civ AW is true, but it cuts both ways. With 31 civs, there will always be more enemy units and more Leaders, so rushing the FP, though IMO a mistake, is usually a correctable one. In your game, you may find that Leaders are rare and precious, so it's that much more important to make the right decisions with the early ones. Given your lack of iron, forming armies and leaving them empty until you have better units may arise as a valid option.
Vmxa's comment about the difference between 8-civ and 31-civ AW is true, but it cuts both ways. With 31 civs, there will always be more enemy units and more Leaders, so rushing the FP, though IMO a mistake, is usually a correctable one. In your game, you may find that Leaders are rare and precious, so it's that much more important to make the right decisions with the early ones. Given your lack of iron, forming armies and leaving them empty until you have better units may arise as a valid option.
Lurker's comment:
the fact is that leaders are not going drop out like a broken piggy bank, till you get fast units like knight and cavs. Having superior attackers in many of the battles via knights is how you get leaders.
They will be hitting archers and spears and swords and often will take only 1 point of damage in open fields, so they can attack again next turn. Swords and MDI will not be doing much of that too slow.
The thing is to me the FP is not important, I do it when it is not going to slow me down. Be that via a spare leader or some town just works on it till it is done. All the towns in the core are making something all the time and shaving off a shield here or there is not going to cause me to lose sleep.
I care about two things 1) keep expanding 2) keep kill ratios up. If I do those two everything else will take care of itself.
the fact is that leaders are not going drop out like a broken piggy bank, till you get fast units like knight and cavs. Having superior attackers in many of the battles via knights is how you get leaders.
They will be hitting archers and spears and swords and often will take only 1 point of damage in open fields, so they can attack again next turn. Swords and MDI will not be doing much of that too slow.
The thing is to me the FP is not important, I do it when it is not going to slow me down. Be that via a spare leader or some town just works on it till it is done. All the towns in the core are making something all the time and shaving off a shield here or there is not going to cause me to lose sleep.
I care about two things 1) keep expanding 2) keep kill ratios up. If I do those two everything else will take care of itself.
Optional
Deity
Lurker's comment:
I believe your NC5 location would be fine for an FP. I rather put the FP in a 50% corrupt area to make it a 25% corrupt area than in a place like Hamburg, where the corruption is already low. You wouldn't build a courthouse in your capital either, would you?
The gain from the FP is big if you put it in the right place, and more reliable than the switch to a proper government. I'm never fond of starting a prebuild in a town that already has other tasks like producing units, then it would indeed slow you down.
I believe your NC5 location would be fine for an FP. I rather put the FP in a 50% corrupt area to make it a 25% corrupt area than in a place like Hamburg, where the corruption is already low. You wouldn't build a courthouse in your capital either, would you?
The gain from the FP is big if you put it in the right place, and more reliable than the switch to a proper government. I'm never fond of starting a prebuild in a town that already has other tasks like producing units, then it would indeed slow you down.
Forbidden Palace
Here is what I wrote in the beginning (Apr 5th):
I think that plan is still a possible option. However:
Here is what I wrote in the beginning (Apr 5th):
("NC 2" has meanwhile been founded and is now called Hamburg.)
I think that plan is still a possible option. However:
- At the moment, the FP has low priority. I think with so few towns, the effect of the FP is too small to justify the huge investment in shields. At the moment units will bring more "return on investment".
- Once we have cleared the Dutch off our continent and have grown a bit, we can think about the FP.
- If we find good lands for a new core and want to disband Berlin, then I'd say we build the FP in Hamburg and afterwards jump the Palace. Hamburg has low corruption, so the FP can be built there really fast. And after Berlin is gone, the FP will turn Hamburg from a 95% corrupted city into a 5% corrupted city. (And with courts build in the adjacent cities, these will still be around 50% corruption, so it's almost like a "semi-productive second core".
- If we don't want to disband Berlin, then Hamburg is too close and an FP there would indeed be wasted. In this case NC 5 (on the latest dotmap from post #352), or perhaps even one town further south would be a good compromise: they are not yet that corrupted that it takes ages to build it, and they are "corrupted enough" so that the FP gives us a good improvement. (I.Larkin posted an excellent discussion about how the FP works in C3C and how to make the best use of it in our team thread of SGOTM14. Basically the FP can be used to stretch the "corruption circle" around the capital into a "corruption ellipse".)
- In any case, I don't like using a leader for the FP either. (Normally in my games, I get like 1-2 leaders in the entire game, even if I conquer the whole world... The RNG doesn't seem to like me...!)
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Hamburg was the place for the FP if we abandoned Berlin, but that will likely not happen for several reasons. Palace jumps are less valuable in Conquests anyway, and losing the culture that the GLib and the palace has(And the fact that after 1000 years it doubles) isn't worth what little we were going to gain. Abandoning Berlin would cost us most of our culture, and since its AW, bad idea. Using a leader might make it less painful, but that shorts us an army. Right now, it's all academic, as we haven't exactly had much progess. BTW, who is actually up?
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
Well, I'm back. I'll accept the criticism, this is a SGFN after all. So with DWetzel skipped (for now) does that mean that Overseer is up?
p.s. The new roster looks fine to me.
p.s. The new roster looks fine to me.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
If I am up, I will start friday.
Depends. If we first finish the current cycle under the "old" roster (see
) and assuming Splunge and Goodsmell dropped out, then I would be next. However, I'm again completely swamped and could play only on Saturday. So I'm fine if we want to switch to the "new" roster immediately.
TheOverseer, as you are our Captain, I'd like to ask you for two favors:
- Could you please edit post #1 and add the current team roster there? Then we don't need to always search through the pages to find the most current one.
- I suggest you should send a PM to Splunge and goodsmell to verify whether they no longer have interest in the game. In that case you might also send a PM to Mike Hussey, as he indicated he would like to fill in as reserve in case someone dropped out. (Or would everyone rather continue this with a 5-man team?)
Cheers, Lanzelot
Glad to see you back!
After not seeing you the last couple days, I was already getting worried that I might have been a little too harsh with you...
I apologize, if I hurt you!
(I just noticed you are only 15! Holy cow, I had already been playing Civ for three years before you were even born...
If I had known you are so young, I'd tried to be a bit more diplomatical... )But anyway, I hope you will benefit a lot from this team game! By the time we are finished with this, you will probably laugh about Monarch level and will master Emperor!
Same goes for Gamezrule, of course! Both of you, don't be afraid of making mistakes or asking stupid questions. That's what this game is for. Just take a bit time, both for reading the team's comments and for playing the actual turnsets. Then everyone of us should be able to get a lot of fun out of this game. (This is what had been frustrating me so much and in the end caused the harsh reaction: the fact that I invested several hours into this game, analyzing things, posting ideas and instructions, and then all this appeared to be ignored completely by the current player "at the steering wheel"...) Little mistakes here and there are not the problem. Everyone will commit them, DWetzel and me just the same as you. The problem is only if you fail to involve the rest of the team in important decisions.
Cheers, Lanzelot
lurker's comment: Two quick points: (1) Given the MM that the settler factory requires to keep on track, it might be helpful if every player stopped their turnset immediately after the SF pops a settler, even if it's not exactly at 10 turns. That way, the second player knows that the SF is exactly at the beginning of the cycle at the beginning of his set. Inheriting a SF like this when it's on turn 3 of the cycle can be pretty confusing. (2) The only stupid questions are the ones that are not asked. Sparthage and Gamezrule, don't hesitate to stop in the middle of the turnset if you feel like you need some guidance.
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
One thing I'd like to know if I did right:
The Stack.
7 Archers and 3 Spearmen. Is it enough? Did I launch it too late/ too early?
Objective: Take Rotterdam
The Stack.
7 Archers and 3 Spearmen. Is it enough? Did I launch it too late/ too early?
Objective: Take Rotterdam
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