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SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by TheOverseer714, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    A Spear army is my choice as well, it will allow the swamp to be drained and then can be used as a pillager and defense for the horde army. With adherence to AW guidelines, there will be more armies to come.
     
  2. splunge the 2nd

    splunge the 2nd King

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    Full spear army it is.
    I'll keep the horse army with just 1 for now for possible galley shipment.

    Game question-I know units in armies can promote. Can they produce MGL's?
     
  3. IvanDolvich2

    IvanDolvich2 Order of Lenin

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    Nope: no MGLs from Armies, just a couple more HP from promotion.
     
  4. splunge the 2nd

    splunge the 2nd King

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    Whew, finished my turnset.
    Here's the breakdown:
    Spoiler :

    Turn 6
    Greek galley unloads ***1 warrior!***
    Greek attack approaches Eindhoven but only moves Hoplite adjacent, leaving 4 horses behind.
    Berlin horse>horse
    Leipzig worker>settler and shift some tiles worked with Hamburg to speed growth
    4 cats at Eindhoven shell the Hoplite who is uninjured (uh oh)
    Rush rax at Eindhoven
    Rush horse at Amsterdam
    Start moving a small force to Groningen.

    IBT
    Hoplite leaves(?) I guess awed by my dramatic cat barrage
    Greek horse stack moves adjacent to Eindhoven
    Persian stack of 2 immortals and 2 spears come in from the fog
    Viking galley approaches the shore of Konigsberg

    Turn 7:
    Amsterdam horse>horse
    Eindhoven rax>spear
    Hanover harbor>galley
    Stutgart cat>cat
    Greeks building Hanging Gardens
    Cats shell Viking galley to 1 and my galley sinks it w/o injury
    Eindhoven battle- Bombard all 3 Greek horses to 2. Kill 1 with archer w/o loss. Kill second and GET RICHTOVEN! Spear army next.
    Bombard the last horse to 1 and kill with elite archer. Army moves on for defense.
    Lux to 10% to avoid riots in Frankfurt and Berlin. Not enough loose units for MP

    IBT:
    Dutch galley appears on our Eastern shore. Dutch move lone archer north.
    Persian stack moves away from Eindhoven after our archer heading to Groningen.
    We learn Currency from GL. Engineering from GL (scientific AI’s) and Feudalism from moving to MA. Greeks know Monotheism and we have monopoly on Lit and Feudalism
    Persians are building ToA and Gardens.
    Utrecht somehow grew to pop 2

    Turn 8
    If we set Research to 90%, losing 40 GPT we can get invention in 14. Lacking iron, we could use longbows, so I’m committing to it.
    Hurry horse in Amsterdam and spear in Eindhoven.. Upgrade cats to trebs there.

    IBT
    Annoying Utrecht archer snags worker. May be a good thing as it leaves him in the open for a horse attack.
    Persian stack and Dutch archer near Eindhoven wander chasing unprotected slave worker NW of town.

    Turn 9
    Amsterdam horse>horse
    Leipzig worker>worker. Rearrange stupid tiles worked as the grain got assigned to Hamburg somehow, messing up the worker factory sequence.
    Koln horse>horse
    Konigsburg galley>treb
    Koln built horse kills Dutch archer by Hanover loses 1 and promotes. Other horseman recaptures workers.
    Bombardment of Utrecht shows 2 regular spear defenders
    Eindhoven bombard Persian stack to some effect. Add spear to army to fill it. Elite*archer kills undamaged regular Immortal with 3 lost health. Elite archer kills 3 health vet immortal losing 3 health (whew). Elite archer kills Greek horse losing 2 or 3 health. Elite archer drops second Greek horse to 1 which retreats. Vet archer kills Dutch archer. Now only 2 damaged Persian spears are adjacent to city. Move spear to protect worker stack. Worker stack chops and roads connecting Eindhoven . Greek horses are 3 spaces from attacking any exposed units and 1 reg immortal is 2 spaces away.
    Sink Dutch galley with cats/galley attack.
    Group of 3 reg horses and 2 elite archers with no artillery support plus 1 horse army are by The Hague, the current Dutch capital.

    IBT
    Persian spears run away, Greeks move more horses and a hoplite towards Eindhoven (Man!)
    Russians (yes there are other civs out there) attack our exploring curragh with a cat w/o damage.

    Turn 10
    Berlin horse>library? (making 19 gold in research, worth it?)
    Nurnberg treb>galley (do we have enough?)
    Eindhoven Retreat archers for healing. Move worker stack with spear army SE heading towards isthmus. Rush spear as only 1 left in town.
    Utrecht is 1 pop again! Must have pop rushed. Bombard-only 2 spear defenders. May have built an archer.
    Destroy the Hague at cost of 2 vet horses and a damaged Elite archer. I hoped the horses would retreat after softening up the defenders, no such luck. I also hoped having it be the capital, it would have made some culture but it self destructed on capture.
    Utrecht is new capital, Groningen is only other city, not too accessible with prowling Immortals.
    Cat bombard then sink Viking galley off of Frankfort, losing 2 health from our eleite galley.
    Upgrade a cat to treb.


    Post play/self criticism:
    I need to watch my happiness, not figuring CA2 is handicapping. Also I let Leipzig's tile asignment get away from me whiloe focussing on the milatary game.
    Thoughts:
    I'm researching at 90% towards invention looking towards eventual calvary(?) as we lack iron. Our cash situation is OK, but we're losing GPT on 90/10 research/entertainment with unit support. We could use some new cities. Settler is near the ruins of The Hague. I suspect Utrecht has saltpeter or oil otherwise why'd the AI plant a city there. We're poised to take it with 4 cats and 3 horses near. May want another horse. Ideally catch it when size 2 to avoid auto raze. There's iron and luxes in the swamps across the isthmus. I can't beleive we could get a secure settlement there though with the Greeks and Persians harrassing us.
    Longterm plan-amphibious attack on Vikings or Greece. I built up a bit of a navy and some ground forces. may want to balance them out. Horse army only has 1 unit for galley transport.
     
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Whata turnset! :goodjob:
    Finally things start going our way... We had good luck with the second leader and also with the fact that apparently the Greeks bought/traded Persia's free Engineering in the interturn, before we got our free tech. Being able to start Invention right away was more than I dared to dream of...

    However, I think you cash-rushed a few things too many: only 231g left of the 480g I had saved. :eek: We can not maintain the deficit research at -45gpt for long now, especially as there are still 7 catapults to be upgraded.

    We will need to slow down research soon now. In fact, I think it is best to do it right away, wait until Berlin finished its library and then go back to 90%. That way we will loose the money at such a point in time, when it gives us the best return on beakers. Or to explain it this way: why blow all the remaining money now, and then in a few turns, when Berlin has a library, we need to lower research to 40%, because our cash is gone? It's better to reduce science now, collect some more money, and when Berlin has the lib go back to deficit research. That way we'll finish Invention faster.

    A town needs at least 10 culture (or size 2), otherwise it gets auto-razed. So this means in 10 turns from now we can take Utrecht. You may be right that there's a saltpeter resource. The AI can see the entire map. And why else would they settle up there in the desert? However, it could be oil as well... :D

    Next steps:
    • Setup choke point. I guess we use the spearmen Army to dry the marshes 1SW of the mountain. (That spot can later be reused for our canal city without the need to drain a further swamp.) An empty Eindhoven will play the role of "magnet", and the swamp tiles SE of the mountain will serve as a slow-down for the advancing Greek horsemen (giving more opportunities to hit them with trebs...)
    • Prepare D-Day. I expect we will meet only 1-2 Hoplites per town and a few archers/horsemen which currently got produced. All the other Greek archers/horsemen will be on their way south towards the choke point, leaving the core quite undefended... :lol:
      I think the remaining 2 Dutch towns can be neglected for now. "Collect" them at a moment when they won't auto-raze, but otherwise concentrate on the choke point and the D-Day now.

    BTW, who's next? Overseer, could you edit turn #1 and add our current team roster? That way we don't need to search through the last couple dozen pages to find it.

    Cheers, Lanzelot
     
  6. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    It's my turn I believe. I'll probably play on Monday so that we have time to discuss what we're going to do with the game.
     
  7. DWetzel

    DWetzel Emperor

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    Comment: don't upgrade catapults to trebs. It's not even close to worth it.
     
  8. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    An Idea (Just to see what you guys think of it): Build the Art of War, or use it as a pre-build for Leo's Workshop (the Horsemen=> Cavalry upgrades will be expensive)
     
  9. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Lurker's comment:

    AW games tend to not see upgrades, at least till late in the game. Even then it will normally only be a few units. Gold is best spend on rushing a few things and deficit research.

    Totally a waste would be upgrading bombardment units, except for a couple of cannons in key locations.

    Maybe a few horses, especially to fill a big hole or an army. Knights are about the only time it is cost effective, but you tend to not have a lot of them anyway as they go into armies right off.

    Exchanging Sun Tzu for Leo is crazy. Saving some gold on upgrades, verse instant barracks on the front?
     
  10. splunge the 2nd

    splunge the 2nd King

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    Sorry on the cat to treb upgrades. I think it may have helped on the Eindoven defense though.
    The rushed horse helped take The Hague (not worth the cost maybe). The rushed walls and spear in Eindoven turned out not to be needed as I avoided attack by bombarding and archer defense. The barracks for healing there was needed.
    Turning down research till we have the library is good thinking.
    If we're thinking of a wonder, already having GL, Sun Tzu will earn us a Golden Age (as will Leo's, but I'm thinking Wonder vs not).
     
  11. Ceoladir

    Ceoladir Come Fly With Me

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    What things do we all need to decide on? :confused:
     
  12. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    Upgrades, meh, usually too expensive to justify. Even with Leo's, cat to treb is 30 gold and treb to cannon is more. Let our corrupt towns build them a shield at a time. Besides, Leo's will eventually be ours anyway...
     
  13. Ceoladir

    Ceoladir Come Fly With Me

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    Agreed, let the less productive towns build the arty, since they are cheaper.
     
  14. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Are you sure about that? In those games where I actually use artillery type units (Demigod and above), I make sure to upgrade them asap. A cat has many misses,a treb almost always hits, until the opponent has musketmen. And 30g is not that much?!

    Perhaps you are right in an AW game, where one has to research every single tech himself. But here we have the luxury of the GLib, so we should be able to spare a few coins?!
    And after all: upgrading is much cheaper than rushing! An upgrade is 3 gold per shield, a rush 4 gold per shield. So I think rushing things makes even less sense. (Unless in critical situations.)

    The corrupt towns (once we have any...) can build settlers, 1 shield per turn. These will slowly ICS the conquered land, reduce unit cost and serve as science farms.

    What things do we have to decide on? Not many I would say. My stomach tells me, a wonder is still too early, especially one that would trigger our GA. If we want to build any expensive building, I would say Heroic Epic should be next. (Make sure our first employment of the horse Army is something like 12/12 Army versus redlined archer... ;))
    The rest should be clear: setup choke point, prepare D-Day in Greece, take Utrecht when it culture-expands.
     
  15. DWetzel

    DWetzel Emperor

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    No, I'm utterly certain about it. It's not particularly close. The gold is much better spent rushing/short rushing buildings and units, or making more useful unit upgrades (i.e. horses-knights, or in our case, even archers-longbows, as awful as that sounds). A catapult will still hit a decent amount of the time, especially against enemy attacking units.

    Or, of course, researching. Trust me when I say, at some point, we will be short of gold, and we will desperately wish that we could keep researching at a higher pace.
     
  16. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Lurker's comment:
    If you have played or read many AW SG games, you do not see ICS much or upgrading much. They have experiences that tell them that it is not the best move.

    ICS, will eat all your pop as you will need so many settlers. You also want to keep moving your borders out to give you control of the roads and staying close to the next target and get replacements in a timely fashion.

    The purpose of the GLB is to let you do zero research as you will have need of the money for research and some rushing, mostly settlers. Yes a small amount of upgrading. Cats to Trebs is not real expensive, but buys you almost nothing.

    Gold get precious as you are in Monarchy, not Republic. You cannot get gold from, them other than capturing or razing towns. They will not have all that much as they are at war all the time as well.

    Those obsolete units can sit and do MP duty and very cheaply at that. Prior to rails, you do not really have the ability to send those cat/trebs to where you need them, hence you have to have more of them to be in all the places they are need.

    Could you please send me those trebs that almost always hit, mine need to attend that class.
     
  17. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Well, the truth is: I've done both exactly zero times so far... So I need to rely on the judgment of those among us, who have already a lot of experience in this area. The point about gold urgently needed for research later on makes a lot of sense to me. I know from my "normal" games, just how much I rely on trading and Republic in order to make progress in science, so I can understand how hard it will be with no trading at all and under Monarchy.
    So in this case the GLib recapture trick should be even more important than usual?!
     
  18. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    :lol: May not be "almost always", but nevertheless the difference is significant. Cat vs spear: 66% hit chance, treb vs spear: 75% hit chance. And treb vs archer/horse goes up to 86%.
     
  19. Daeron

    Daeron The Apprentice

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    lurker's comment: Yes, but by the time you have trebs, you're in the middle age. I think you should really be using pikemen for the comparison.
     
  20. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    Which of course we don't have. :lol:
     

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