Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
The phrase 'counting chickens' springs to mind here - you will almost certainly face two spears minimum at Monarch; 4 archers are far from guaranteed to take the city.
SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game
- Thread starter TheOverseer714
- Start date
lurker's comment:
The phrase 'counting chickens' springs to mind here - you will almost certainly face two spears minimum at Monarch; 4 archers are far from guaranteed to take the city.
Yeah, this. I was thinking six, though seven or eight might be needed if they poprush one more spear at the wrong time.
By the way, this is the not terribly subtle advantage to having a spear around harassing them--they might lose an archer or two attacking it (say, fortified on a hill), and regardless, their workers will be scared to come out and play, and their growth will be stunted.
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
I was thinking that a stack of 8 archers and 3 spearmen would be best. The attack would have a decent chance of succeeding, and would be well defended against counter-strikes.
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
10 is a nice, round number.
Also, when did all this talk about disbanding Berlin begin, and why?
Also, when did all this talk about disbanding Berlin begin, and why?
That's Lanzelot's crazy idea.
The reason to do it would be to get more productive cities up in that region; where it is now, Berlin's kind of in the way of more useful city spacing, which means that we either go CxC spacing around our capital (lots of small, not terribly productive cities = boooo), or abandon it.A bit later, when we have a spare leader, we can rush the palace somewhere more productive (someplace like Amsterdam or a bit better) and then abandon Berlin; the other cities will pick up the tiles it would use.
I'm not a huge fan of the idea, preferring more normal city spacing, since Berlin's in a decent enough spot for a capital if we just go CxxC (though we lose a couple of river spots).
If you look at the first turnset, Overseer decided to move the settler from his original spot for some reason. Although he should have been moved, It was the other direction he should of gone, but enough pointing fingers, I DON'T think we should raze Berlin.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Yup, the reason I moved south was to get away from the sea and have a more central capital, based on the scanty info I had. Wrong or not, done is done.
Lurker's comment:
Not to worry about a few hickups, you guys have enough experience to take them down.
Not to worry about a few hickups, you guys have enough experience to take them down.
All I meant was that I think (so it doesn't mean anything)
that we would have been better served on the sea. (Extra Commerce, No corruption) The FP does a lot more (in my games at least) 
then you gave it credit for if it is placed within 20 squares of the capitol. But whats done is done and we have enough civ experience between us to make due even with our crappy start. (no Iron sucks) 
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
WHY WOULD WE ABANDON OUR CAPITAL? I could understand building our palace in a different city, but abandon a decent city? No, I don't think that abandoning Berlin is wise.
But on a different note, when are you going to update, Lanzelot?
But on a different note, when are you going to update, Lanzelot?
Optional
Deity
Lurker's comment:
I believe it's not that uncommon for a conquest game. Lanzelot can best answer why he likes the idea - I think he still does - but I would guess it has a lot to do with your current landmass being so small and insular.
If you conquer the Dutch - that would be a prerequisite for moving the capital anyway - you will perhaps see a better spot for a capital with more space around it and a shorter supply line to your new front.
Your current core will always remain very limited, no space for a second ring will mean only few towns will have low corruption. There's not much that a capital can do in such a small space.
If you're moving, you would first build an FP next to Berlin, this will be quick to build and also help with corruption in your old core when Berlin is gone.
If you're abandoning Berlin you don't need a MGL to rush a new palace somewhere, a palace will automatically get asigned to another town. There is a ruleset by which the game decides what is going to be the new palace and I'm sure the size of the population has a lot to do with it, but hopefully somebody knows the rule better than I do.
If you build your new palace instead of auto-moving it you will spend a lot of shields. There is also the problem that in the current location Berlin will start to compete for tiles with the towns surrounding it. As you haven't invested in Berlin apart from a 20-shield barracks, you stand little to lose when abandoning it.
There's probably stuff you can throw against a palace move in this game. I'm not familiar with this type of game, so I'll leave the discussion to the experts.
Lurker's comment:
Can't says as I move the palace much, never in C3C. In AW, moving should be easier as you can expect to get leaders early that you do not have enough towns to make an army and can rush FP and later palace some place.
The free palace is probably not so likely as you would want it in a particular spot and that will not be the one you would get without some major setting up.
Can't says as I move the palace much, never in C3C. In AW, moving should be easier as you can expect to get leaders early that you do not have enough towns to make an army and can rush FP and later palace some place.
The free palace is probably not so likely as you would want it in a particular spot and that will not be the one you would get without some major setting up.
Optional already summed it up very nicely, not much to add. Let me just stress the main points:
- Our current location is crappy. Just barely room for one decent ring.
- We will certainly find a much better space when conquering our first or second enemy. At the moment Amsterdam doesn't look that much better, but it seems the landmass is "widening" towards the south, so the next neighbor might have a decent location. (And by the time we get there, he will already have build up a decent core, into which we can jump... ) Edit: One more indicator that there might be more land to the south: I think it is pretty clear now that there are at least 3 civs on our continent. (The Dutch must have a contact!) The game would never put three starting locations on a small continent, so this must be a reasonably big continent!
- By disbandoning Berlin we will get a new Palace for free! No need to build it by hand (which takes ages) or waste a precious great leader for it. The rules of where the new Palace jumps, have been deeply analysed by the old legends (see Military Academy), so it shouldn't be much effort to make sure the palace goes exactly where we want it to be.
I've done it a couple of times already, and can confirm that it boosts production and income considerably. In our case with such a crappy start, it may immediately double our core.
Regarding the FP: true, in C3C the effect is not as big as in Vanilla/PTW, but with courthouses (need to make sure to build them before Berlin is disbanded) the old core will remain "semi-productive" and still quite useful. (And of course the FP town will remain 95% productive.)
Ok, I will play tonight then. Based on your feedback I will change my plan as follows: most of you expressed the opinion that attacking Rotterdam with 4 archer is too risky. I agree. It might work, but it might as well end in disaster... So I will not produce that many units yet (unit upkeep is already getting critical) and instead wait until we have 2-3 more towns. Then we can afford a stack of let's say 6-7 archers and 1-2 spears and can go on the offensive then. I will double check, when I open the .sav, but perhaps it is possible/good to spit out another settler from Berlin to reduce upkeep sooner. But I'll double check the numbers before doing such a thing, because in general it is bad to build a settler in a non-granary town (especially when it is the capital...)
Also I will keep the spearman fortified on a hill near Amsterdam and hope the Dutch will run their heads against it... (This is actually a clever idea, DWetzel
)Lanzelot
Don't thing it was wrong. After all, it has freed up enough room to build two good towns north of Berlin (which would otherwise not have been possible). I would have done the same in the given situation.
Free palace jumping will still be very difficult to arrange to the right town (will require a lot of units to be in place)--I am certain that a leader is the right way to do this. Hopefully, we'll be able to have a "spare" leader at some point.
The palace jump is for sufficiently down the road anyway that it's not an immediate concern except as regards city placement.
The palace jump is for sufficiently down the road anyway that it's not an immediate concern except as regards city placement.
Optional
Deity
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I've done a few palace jumps in my day and it's actually not ultra complicated. Basically the new target needs to be large or have a bunch of units in it, both is even better. Civ Assist 2 has a palace jump utility (Miscellaneous tab) that tells the continent, city rank and garrison necessary to do a jump. Chances are, if we get a nice sized city and put our stack in it, it should get the palace.
Similar threads
