SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game

[GamezRule]

Nice. (read the sig)

 

[Lanzelot]

Hmm, I guess that puts me the next in line?

At the moment the game is quite clear it seems. The smoke has cleared and it's now a matter of wrapping it up efficiently. Things to do during my turnset:

• Keep going in Greece/Persia like DWetzel and TheOverseer have been doing the last couple turns.
• We decided to turn Greece into a science farm, so I'll work on that.
• Perhaps already make preparations for the Scandinavian campaign (if the Persians permit...)
• But what I still want to do in any case: get a Cav Army over to Beta. Babylon and Russia both have saltpeter connector, and I'd like to cut that off. If they produce spearmen instead of musketmen, they'll go bankrupt much sooner, and it'll be much easier for us in 20-30 turns when we are ready to invade there.

One unclear point to me at the moment is: research. I assume we are going for railways asap?
And after that Nationalism for mobilization, or rather Replacable Parts?
And will we continue all the way to Panzers? My stomach tells me, the game will be over before we get there... So at one point it may be more efficient to stop researching and cash-rushing units?!

I guess we also need to decide on a victory condition now. The most obvious and fastest would be domination, but we could also go for 100K or spaceship.

Lanzelot

 

[DWetzel]

I'm not entirely sure on research, but for now the choice (onward to magnetism for bigger/faster ships, then finish out the medieval age, then Steam for rails) is pretty clear, and that should take at least the next couple of turnsets. My opinion only right now is that Industrialization (factories) and then RP is probably best, but we're a ways off from having to decide.

I do think maximal research right now is a priority, as with the rapidly increasing science farms we should see our research capacity take off quickly. We need a bunch more settlers to fill in the south if we are to go for domination, which I agree would be the quickest (second would be conquest).

Agree that getting a cav army over to Beta would be nice. We should have one empty army right now? That one can head to Beta. and we can afford the next army to be filled with THREE cavs, not four, to be ferried over to lead the Viking conquest. (Galleons are about 10 turns away, and those can carry a three-unit army if I'm not mistaken.) Frankly, I'd ship that second cav army and some semi-obsolete units over (and some trebuchets and the like) and take our sweet time over there. Speed won't be a factor, since it will take much longer to take over the other continent -- but devoting the minimum number of units there would be a wise idea.

We can pretty safely disband our spear army, and probably the longbow armies (but, possibly curiously, I'd keep the horse army to deal with invasions due to speed) in order to partial-rush new armies from our military academy.

 

[TheOverseer714]

This is AW, so our VC is domination or conquest. If the placement in old Greece seems off, I was trying to maximize on food and fresh water rather than strict ICS. Research toward steam and/or nationalism was obvious. Caravels are moving north for a limited beta continent invasion. To the next player, good luck and keep up the progress.

 

[GamezRule]

Personally, I feel domination doesn't do AW justice. We should go for conquest, or do what Arathorn did in Sid Always War and get them both on the same turn.

 

[DWetzel]

This is AW, so our VC is domination or conquest. If the placement in old Greece seems off, I was trying to maximize on food and fresh water rather than strict ICS.

Wanted to stress for future players that this is the unquestionably right way to do it. Max food = max science; we have enough river towns with flood plains there that those can get 12 pop; beyond that it's merely pretty decent ground.

If we have any free workers, we can start hacking down the jungles, as that would be pretty good science ground, but I doubt we'll have time what with all the railing we'll need to do.

 

[Lanzelot]

I have played the first 5 turns on Tuesday and hoped to finish it last night, but was unexpectedly overwhelmed with work... So it will have to wait until the weekend.

DWetzel & Overseer: when settling my first few towns in Greece, I intuitively used a kind of relaxed CxxC pattern (sometimes CxxxC, when there were mountains in between), even before reading your comments. So it looks like we all three agree on this point...
Quite a rare occurence, isn't it...

My main reason for this was: to maximize territory with as few settlers as possible. That way we can reach domination limit asap. ICS is no longer necessary now, because unit upkeep is no longer a problem: with the towns I captured and settled in the last 5 turns, unit upkeep dropped from 35gpt to 4gpt, and it will surely go to 0 next turn.

Lanzelot

 

[DWetzel]

Basically, the location isn't terribly important as long as we maximize food (which basically means "settle on a hill where possible even if it looks a bit goofy"). Getting every last tile of land isn't that big a deal, certainly not now anyway.

 

[Lanzelot]

Agreed. I try to settle on hill (and jungle) whenever appropriate.

However, please also consider the following:
I begin to think that we may need only very few tiles from the Beta continent.

Currently there are still large black spots on the map, so CivAssist doesn't give a correct estimate of the domination limit yet, but my Cav Army already landed in the north of Beta and will begin exploring next turn. By the end of my turnset we should know the exact number of tiles required to win.
And I think it may even be possible to win by settling our continent "in a perfect way" (e.g not loose any of the hard to get coastal tiles, which count towards domination), by doing the same to Scandinavia and by getting a couple of the small island.

The worst that can happen is, that we need a few more tiles from Beta, so we just capture 3-4 towns in the lightly defended north of Beta and don't need to "take the bull by its horns"... (which means no need to attack the strong & well-developed civs in the center and south).

So being fussy about every single tile might pay off here.
(Unless we want to follow Overseer's idea of a combined "ConDom". But I think this would only unnecessarily prolong the game. I vote for an elegant and efficient finish.)

 

[Lanzelot]

A few strategic remarks: I notice that Scandinavia has Incense, a resource we are still missing, so going for them at the earliest opportunity would indeed make sense.
Four of our enemies already know Banking, while Physics is still unknown, so we are currently paying the full monopoly price (1706 beakers) researching it. We should have done Banking, which at 989 beakers could have been done in 4 turns. We might be lucky and one of the AIs will discover Physics in the meantime, upon which the price will already drop considerably.

Spoiler :

Preturn:
A few units are still unmoved, so I move them. (Leaving the ones at Thessalonica in order to deal with the future Russian landings...) I decide to upgrade the horses in Berlin and Rotterdam, so we can prepare the Army for Beta.
Changed a few cannons to settlers.
Sold barracks in Frankfurt.

I think Stuttgart and Bonn can use a courthouse. Change Bonn now, as we have enough vessels for the moment. Stuttgart finishes the musket first for our Beta operation.

IBT:
Russians land 2 swords and 2 warriors at Thessalonica.
Persian longbow comes out of Bactra and kills a musket S of Bampur.
An immortal and another longbow come out of Borazjan and kill two longbows. Darn. We shouldn't leave dangerous resistance nests in our back.
0-3

1. 1060AD:
Hengst kills two muskets and takes Bactra, capturing 4 slaves.
eLongbow kills longbow, eHorse immortal, eCav the other longbow.
Horsa takes out immortal and longbow S of Bactra.
Another Cav takes on another immortal that is threatening our reinforcement road.

Trebs hit Russian swords 3 times, 3 eLongbows and an eCav throw them back into the sea.
Barbarossa kills hoplite in Halicarnassus.
12-3

Increase science to 60%

IBT:
Another longbow comes out of Borazjan and kills an e*Horse.
12-4

2. 1070AD:
2nd Longbows defeats pike in Hamadan, vCav defeats spear and takes Hamadan.
eHorse 5/5 attacks 2/4 longbow and retreats 1/5!! An eLongbow takes care of it now.
15-4

Hurry a settler in Bactra. Will serve as a combat settler for attacking Persepolis next turn.
Increase science to 80% and hire a couple Einsteins.
Found Brandenburg and Fehrbellin.

IBT:
Physics -> Banking

3. 1080AD:
Lower science to 70%, which is enough to bring in Banking in 4.
Found Leuthen and Sprungschanze.

Horsa and Hengst both kill a reg musket in Persepolis. Move all trebuchets and the finally healed Cav Army in place.
Spear Army pillages Persian horses. Don't want any surprises with 2-movement units.
17-4

IBT:
A Knight comes out of Persepolis and takes undefended Sprungschanze...
A Persian galley drops an archer at Thessalonica.
Halicarnassus grows to 2.
A continuous stream of galleys passes along our northern coast...

4. 1090AD:
Barbarossa kills hoplite in Halicarnassus. eCav retreats 1/5, eLongbow captures it together with 2 workers.
Three trebs bombard pike in Borazjan, but hit only once. Two eLongbows attack, kill the pike and a spear and take the town.
Cav Army kills two rMuskets (17/18) and takes Persepolis.
After bombing a few more units, eHorse kills knight and destroys Sprungschanze, longbow and eCav kill another knight and a longbow. Cav Army kills vMusket in Tyre.
2nd Longbows and a cav (which promotes) kill two muskets and take Gordium. We are finally down to 0 unit costs!

Two cavs kills hoplites in Miletos and destroy the town.
Cav picks up another stray longbow and promotes.
32-4

Three caravels plus one for protection set sail to the new world. Onboard: our Army, four cavs and two muskets.

IBT:
Aztecs switch to Democracy! And they drop an AC near Persepolis...
Three Persian longbows move next to Persepolis.

5. 1100AD:
eLongbow kills archer.
Cav Army defeats final musket in Tyre and captures a worker, but it looses a couple of feathers: 14/18

-> 8/18. Afterwards it kills the AC and a longbow at Persepolis. eHorse kills another LB after bombardment.
Pasargadae (the new capital) is protected only by spears, so an eCav rushes by and kills one, surviving by a hair (1/5).
38-4

Science lowered to 50%. Upgrade e*Horse to cav.
Found Roßbach.

IBT:
Longbow kills 1/5 cav at Pasargadae. Persian rKnight attacks vMusket, but dies, musket promotes.
Persia lands an rKnight at Thermopylae -- oops, no defenses in sight...
39-5

6. 1110AD:
eHorse kills Greek LB at Roßbach.
2nd Longbow kills spear in Pasargadae, Horsa kills the stray longbow and then the last spear and captures two slaves in Pasargadae.
Troops advance on Sidon, eHorse kills immortal.
44-5

Our fleet reaches the mountain north of Aarhus and drops its load...

A fifth nation has learned Banking, the price dropped to 890 beakers, can lower science to 0% now, the scientists do the rest.

IBT:
The Persian knight takes Thermopylae -- quite unexpectedly the population drops from 2 to 1?!? I expected it would remain at 2, because both inhabitants were Greek?! That must mean, Persia and Greece are at war with each other?! Too bad, now Thermopylae will be destroyed, when we retake it.
Banking -> Theory of Gravity

7. 1120AD:
eLongbow kills knight and recaptures Thermopylae?!? Why didn't it get razed? Did the Greeks have more than 10 culture in it, and this prevented the raze, even though I captured the town from Persia?

eHorse dies vs longbow!! A second eHorse finishes the job.
Hengst kills two reg muskets in Sidon. eCav kills longbow and captures Sidon.
48-6

Fill 4 cavs in our Beta Army and start marching south. The two musktes that protected the landing zone, are loaded back on the ships. They can fortify on a mountain in North-Scandinavia and draw the Scandinavian forces up north, making our landing in the south easier...

Set research to 100%. Gravity in 5, with scientists perhaps in 4.

8. 1130AD:
Found Dresden and Potsdam.
Beta Army moves south and captures two Aztec workers.
Drop two muskets on a mountain SE of Birka.

4 trebuchets reduce musket in Tureng Tepe to 1/3. Three eLongbows kill a spear, the redlined musket and a longbow and capture Tureng Tepe.
Cav kills spear in Dakyanus and promotes 4/5.

Cav kills musket in Antioch 4/4. Try the same with an eCav, and of course it dies! Horsa kills a musket and a spear. One unit left in Antioch. Move in reinforcements.
54-7

IBT:
The Aztecs drop 7 mixed units (AC, jaguars, horsemen, archer longbow) at Sidon! Man, they do mean business now...

9. 1140AD:
8 trebuchets happen to be close to Sidon, so they bomb the Aztec stack, only one miss!
A crusader kills the last spear in Dakyanus and captures the town, freeing the eCav for attacking the Aztec stack:
Hengst and 5 more elite units (cav, three horses, one musket) then kill the Aztec "SoD".

Cav Army kills 2 muskets and a spear and captures Arbela. eCav picks up a stray longbow and finally my first leader: Horsa again!! I form the Army "Zieten-Husaren" and fill with two Cavs (third one to be added next turn).
2nd Longbows Army kills musket in Arbela, but goes down to 6/17, uff! Horsa defeats the last spear (they must have brought reinforcements in the interturn... and finally captures Arbela.

Our Spear Army defeats a reg Babylonian bowman down at the Persian town Jinjan, goes down from 17/17 to 5/18, but captures two settlers, which were protected by that bowman! These workers will be handy.

Beta Army moves south, capturing another worker and killing an AC, loosing 1 hitpoint.
70-7

Found Charlottenburg.

IBT:
A berserk attacks our musket on mountain at Birka, but doesn't even scratch it!
An Aztec cav attacks Beta Army and brings it to 13/17! Hey, I've never seen this before! The last two turns 2 cavs were dancing around that Army and didn't attack. Did this one hitpoint make that much of a difference?!?
A longbow out of Herat attacks a musket and promotes it 5/5!
A Babylonian knight attacks our Spear Army and brings it to 1/18. Two Armies getting attack by the AI in one single turn. This game is something special. (Though the weakened Spear Army getting attacked is no surprise.)
74-7

10. 1150AD:
4 trebs bombard spearmen in Herat, but hit only once. Barbarossa kills one, an eLongbow the other one and captures Herat.
eCav attacks hoplite in Pergamon, but dies.

The Zieten-Husaren kill Babylonian spear.
77-8

Handover notes:

• Pergamon is a tough nut. Wait until you have the trebs and longbows as reinforcements.
• There's a cav in Sidon, which can join the Zieten-Husaren next turn. But don't make it size 4.
• The Beta Army is fortified so it can heal and continue it's march next turn.
• Don't forget to drop research to 90% or 80% to save some gold.
• The Scandinavian invasion force is currently assembling in Königsberg. I'd say 3-4 more cavs and you can land on the hill besides Stockholm. 2 muskets for protection should be enough.
• The Spear Army is fortified on a mountain now and can heal for 2-3 turns and then continue exploring the black spot towards Murmansk.
• Once our troops have liberated our continent and reached Murmansk, two caravels can ship some longbows, cavs and trebs over to the Sippar/Ixtapaluca island. One caravel is already on its way towards that area, another one is being built in Dakyanus and can be rushed, when the time has come.
• Some more units can be shiped from Ergili to the two island Nippur and Novosibirsk.
• The settler from Athens will settle 2E of Athens! That way we gain two already irrigated floodplains!
• The settler at Hannover can hop into the waiting galley and settle on the plains tile between Thessalonica and Knossos.
• The settler in Eindhoven is on its way to the jungle tile between Knossos and Marathon.
• The settler under construction in Knossos will settle 2SE of Knossos. That way it will claim the entire 15 tiles of the "Inner Sea". (BTW: that sea is salt water, because it's 22 tiles big. One tile less and it would be fresh water...)
• CivAssist currently estimates the domination limit at 1330 tiles, but I expect the true value will be around 1500 tiles. Currently we own 693 tiles. 530 are currently unclaimed due to large gaps in our conquered Greek and Persian territory. We can claim these by skillfully settling the holes and a library in some reasonable spots (e.g. like Rhodes, which will claim coastal tiles that cannot be claimed with a settler). Persia has 85 more tiles, Scandinavia has 187 tiles. The three islands will give us 85 tiles. If you add all these numbers, you get 1580 tiles, so that should be enough!
• Actually I think, it is no longer worth researching, and we should use the money for settler rushing, but I continued research since the team made that decision. I think we still get Steam before the end of the game, but it will probably no longer make a big impact.

Lanzelot

 

[DWetzel]

"eLongbow kills knight and recaptures Thermopylae?!? Why didn't it get razed? Did the Greeks have more than 10 culture in it, and this prevented the raze, even though I captured the town from Persia?"

Yup, it's got foreign culture, so that will happen.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Looks like it was an action-filled set. Armies wth even one hitpoint off will be attacked by enemy cavalry, heck I've seen AI Cavs attacked weakened MI armies.

 

[Bucephalus]

An Aztec cav attacks Beta Army and brings it to 13/17! Hey, I've never seen this before! The last two turns 2 cavs were dancing around that Army and didn't attack. Did this one hitpoint make that much of a difference?!?

lurker's comment:

Sometimes the AI will stumble into an Army while on patrol, then it will attack.

 

[Lanzelot]

PS: I've fortified two galleys on our whale tiles at Frankfurt. There is so much galley traffic up there every interturn, I just wanted to prevent them from running over those whales every time...
The galleys can join the Scandinavian invasion if necessary. (But we probably have enough ships up there anyway.)

 

[Lanzelot]

I sent a PM to splunge a couple of days ago, but he doesn't seem to be online. Should we go ahead and let Sparthage take on the next turn?

Lanzelot

 

[DWetzel]

I sent a PM to splunge a couple of days ago, but he doesn't seem to be online. Should we go ahead and let Sparthage take on the next turn?

Lanzelot

Yes, that's a good plan.

 

[Sparthage]

Okay. A few questions.

1.) What is the role of the army on Beta continent? I assume pillaging, but I'm not certain.
2.) Research: What's next on our priorities? Just try and get out of the Medieval Ages, or do we want a specific tech?
3.) Also research: What rate should I try to maintain? We're at 100% right now, but are losing 65 gpt.
4.) Navy: Should I try to increase our strength by researching Magnetism next? Should I build a small fleet of caravels to help block the increasing number of ships?
5.) Military: Should I just keep pushing south to destroy the Greeks and Persians?
6.) Worker priorities: Are we still trying to maximize food?
7.) Settlers: Should I build them in Greek and Persian cities only?

 

[Lanzelot]

Okay. A few questions.

1.) What is the role of the army on Beta continent? I assume pillaging, but I'm not certain.
2.) Research: What's next on our priorities? Just try and get out of the Medieval Ages, or do we want a specific tech?
3.) Also research: What rate should I try to maintain? We're at 100% right now, but are losing 65 gpt.
4.) Navy: Should I try to increase our strength by researching Magnetism next? Should I build a small fleet of caravels to help block the increasing number of ships?
5.) Military: Should I just keep pushing south to destroy the Greeks and Persians?
6.) Worker priorities: Are we still trying to maximize food?
7.) Settlers: Should I build them in Greek and Persian cities only?

1.) Fog-busting, so we get an accurate value of the domination limit. Finding and pillaging saltpeter&iron resources. (Luxuries are good as well...) Interrupting road lines towards the north part of the continent (in case we do need to land there). And other than that: staying out of trouble... (I guess after my experience with the cav that attacked, it's a good idea to end each turn at least on a hill/forest.)
2.) Steam for railroads.
3.) Try doing each of the remaining techs in 4-5 turns. The current turn is the fourth of Gravity. If you keep it at 100% for this turn, and then reduce to 90 or even 80%, it will be finished the next turn.
4.) I think we have enough ships. The heavy traffic on our north coast doesn't hurt us... let them go ahead, if it makes them happy... But we probably need to rush a caravel or two down at the two ends, to get our units over to the islands I mentioned in my handover notes. (BTW: please let me know if there are any comments on these handover notes. I think especially our settler management is crucial for the remainder of this game. The settler is our strongest unit now, it will bring us ~500 of the missing ~900 tiles!
5.) And continue preparing the Scandinavian invasion. As I said in the handover: I think 3-4 more cavs at Königsberg, and we are ready to go. So I think that invasion will take place during your turns. (Post a plan of how you want to achieve it.)
The units in the south shouldn't need any reinforcements any more. What we have down there is sufficient for the clean up. (May take 2-3 turns longer without reinforcements, but the new units are now more effectively employed in Scandinavia.)
After the mop up, sail those southern units over to the islands east and west. These are important in our plan, and probably only very lightly defended.
6.) Yes
7.) Yes, except for maybe 2-3 "combat settlers", which can be built in Leipzig. (These can later be used for filling gaps in Scandinavia (and northern Beta?) to get every last tile over there.) Other than that, settlers from the core will take too long to reach the important spots in Greece/Persia, and we need our ships for the final invasions very soon.

Good luck!
Lanzelot

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Oh crud!

I was away for a family vacation and lost track of whose turn it was. I've been watching the forum for new posts and completely misssed the PM (no one ever PM's me ).

Sorry all.

If Sparthage is ready to play, I'll take my turn after (if nobody minds). If not, I can play this weekend.

Sorry again to hold everyone up.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I'd say build settlers in Leipzig for Scandinavia, along with workers for railing.