SGOTM 19 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Interesting idea.

You know that KK also has Philosophy. As I look at the map, it would take longer to get set up to attack KK in a similar fashion and water breaks up much of his territory, making it harder to move around in it.

Your idea also solves the Nappy problem because I think he will attack if we declare on Toku and then KK.

Let's see what others say.

 

[The-Hawk]

I like Htadus' plan a lot. I've been more inclined to go for Nappy from the start. Gets us HG and gets a nutcase out of our hair.

I would recommend we wait until we have stolen techs for maces and upgrade our promoted axemen before heading for the jump off points to attack Nappy.

The stack going for his capital needs to be pretty big. It will need to be able to deal with his stack at Samsun. We will beat it to the capital, problem is we will be surrounded by forest tiles, so it will be hard to attack his stack. Maybe if we move to the forest 1 NW of the capital and spend a couple of turns bombarding, he will oblige us and move the stack into the city. Then we can kill it with siege and our city raider attacker.

BTW, there is a CR3 axe in Antioch. I was reluctant to move him until we knew how the Nappy situation would work out. I built an archer to take over MP duty from him, but misclicked and sent the archer the wrong way (he is up near Lali). I think we can safely recover the axe from Antioch and send another unit there.

 

[Htadus]

^^
Yes we can get Philo from KK too and likely faster since he is in a war but it won't solve the Nappy issue. He does have a sizable stack.

We can speed the whole war plan(and also getting Philo for peace sooner) by just attacking Ankara with a large force. Send a smaller force to Gazientep but a turn or more later. We should capture Ankara on the 2nd turn of war. Nappy will wnt his city back and will send his stack to take it back. Once his stack get there we take Gazientep. With some luck, we can get him to suicide his stack or do what I do. (Not the smartest thing sometimes. I lead off with about 2-3 Barriage promoted cats followed by strong units to clean up. It has failed once or twice but worked most often.)

Then we heal or units and go after Adrean and Istanbul and maybe Bursa. Anyways this way we have a direct southern route to move forces to attack HC or better yet attack Alex specially if he does not have LB's by then.

Suggestions for cities:

Capital(science): After Forge build units. Assign any cottages unused by Uterect to the capital.

Uterecht(units): Let it borrow the corn from Capital and set to grow in 3 turns. After Forge: Build units. Cats with double promo are needed. This city need CService for extra food from Capitals corn and a farm to bring irrigation to wheat.

Hague(Hybrid): After forge the city should build units. It could use a Market somewhere down the road. May need a WShop.

Const(Science and GP farm): Allow this to grow to next pop in 2 turns by using the food tile Thessa is using now. Work food and commerce tiles before anything. If we use GA and/or switch to CS hire 4 scientist total for 3 turn and hire another on 4th turn when the city grow. If we do not use the GA and cs then work commerce tiles for slider.

Sheep(Science): Work cottages and build things/units. Need to build a farm to irrigate wheat in Uterect and 2 more cottages. we can chop the forests here for the Market.

Gold(Hybrid): Need a WShop or 2 and a forge. Should we switch to forge first?

Thessa(Science): Work cottages, food and water tiles.

Nicea(2nd GP farm): Work 7-8 specialists asap.

Yeya(Hybrid): After forge build units and wealth. Need Civil Service for Irrigation.

Aksum(Science): Whip Lib now and chop/build FP.

Gondor(Science): Swich to Lib and chop it soon. CH can wait since Askum will have FP.

Adrian, Lalabel and Antioch(Hybrid): Farm, mines and WShops. Need CService.

I am out of time until tomorrow.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Haven't had time (and wont have) to look at the details of Htadus' plan, but the general concept is fine with me. Do see merit in Hawk's suggestion to wait on units moves until we have upgraded axes to maces.

 

[leif erikson]

Ready to go after Nappy then? Slow or fast - take the peripheral cities near us first is fast while setting up to take the capital is slow.

 

[The-Hawk]

This is a tough call.

Istanbul first: Nappy has a decent number of units in or around Samsun. If we attack Istanbul, we get to the forest NW of the city on turn 3. His stack gets there on turn 5. This gives us a turn to bombard, then hope he comes into the city so we can get him with siege and our city attack specialized units. I have to think that with a large enough attacking stack, he will move his stack into the city to defend. If he does attack (say with his cats from within Istanbul on the turn he arrives) at least we are on a forest tile. We will likely lose some units, but he will be open to counter attack. Biggest issue is we have a long wait to get in position. We need a couple of turns to steal Maceman technology, then a turn to upgrade units. Then 8 turns to get in position.

Ankara first: We get to war 6 turns quicker. However, his stack becomes more of a wildcard. We should have Ankara in 2 turns. With any luck, we have Erdine on turn 6. He gets to Erdine on turn 7, so we definitely get hit defending the city (unless he bypasses and goes to Ankara which would really suck).

Seems like Ankara first it a little better. We will have killed his stack about 4 turns sooner. Downside is we lose the chance to kill his stack while it is defending a city. He will definitely get his blows in first.

 

[leif erikson]

Agree, it is a tough call.

The additional problem of taking Isatanbul first is having our primary stack deep in enemy territory having to defend a city against troops that could come from any direction, slowing down our move to take more cities.

Would it help us to give Metal Casting, and perhaps Music, to Alex to try to get him on our side versus Nappy while we are preparing for war? I wonder if we could bribe him into war with some techs we steal from HC?

 

[Htadus]

I would not wait for machinery since we do want to part bulb Libralism. We will be saving about 8-10 turn on Completing it with -200+ gpt and that depends on if we will have that much gold at that time for deficit research.

If Fred thought that one of the teams completed the game around T200, we need to try to get there by T180 just so we have a fighting chance at this game. We all know how to car with cats so lets do it.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"car with cats"??

 

[Htadus]

I must be having EoK flashbacks. Not car....war. The "w" and "c" are no where close to each other make that a typo.

 

[leif erikson]

So you are saying we have to forgo Maces? No Machinery in order to bulb Liberalism.

Got to get Cat production maximized...

edit - we might as well start from the east and fight to the west? The quick solution, in other words?

 

[Htadus]

Yes because it will get us to peace with Nappy soonest. I am positive that if we take Ankara and wait he will want to take that city back. We should delay attacking the second city until his stack arrive at Ankara. Defend with all we have and if we can get a few Barriage 2 cats available then go on the offensive. Most of the tiles around Ankara is flat and free of forests.

 

[leif erikson]

OK, so take everything we have to Ankara and use follow on forces (recently built) to take his other city?

Will try to play some this evening, in about 9 to 10 hours.

Plan will be to attack Ankara.
Steal Feudalism and then CS, but not Machinery.
Start Golden Age with Feudalism and change civics to Vassalage and Caste.
Run scientists and start, after getting CS, start research on Paper. Bulb Education.

Chop Forbidden Palace in Aksum. Produce units or Gold in other cities.

Are we still building Cottages with Workers?
Do we want to build Sankore? Other Wonders?

 

[Htadus]

Sankor won't pay us back and units will definitely speed things along. Taj Mahal.......definitely.

 

[Cactus Pete]

If we're going to be in war mode much of the time, I'm inclined to have workers do task most complimentary to that -- mainly, chopping and roading.

Concur with benefits of Taj

 

[leif erikson]

We've got issues!

Instead of a Great Scientist, we got another Great Spy in Constantinople.
Seems to me we still need 2 GS's.
Also, both Asoka and Toku have declared war on us and Nappy now has Maces.

We have stolen both Feudalism and CS, but not Machinery.

Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 122 – 175AD
Move CR3 Axe and Cat out of Aksum, headed for Nappy.
Move CR3 Axe from Lalibela towards Aksum.
Whip Library in Aksum for 2 pop.
Steal Feudalism from HC and move another Spy into Troy.
Give Corn to Utrecht.

IBT
KK will trade CS.
Alex has 140 Gold available for trade.
Utrecht Forge => Cat.
Yeha Forge => Barracks.
Aksum Library => Forbidden Palace.
HC completes Shwedagon Paya.
KK will trade CS.
KK makes peace with Alex.

Turn 123 – 200 AD
Begin Golden Age.
Change Civics to Vassalage and Caste.
Hire Scientists in Nicea and Constantinople.
Our Spy is caught in Troy trying to steal CS, at 77% chance of success. Move another Spy into the city.
Try trading for CS, but it is useless.
Declare war on Nappy. Move two HA’s to capture a Worker, the rest of the stack moves ahead. Leave a Spear in Gondar with a WE to join him next turn.

IBT
Asoka declares war on us.
Amsterdam Forge => Sword.
Utrecht Cat => Cat.
Yeha Barracks => Cat.

Turn 124 – 225AD
We steal CS from HC for 643 points.
Set research to 100% for Paper, due in 2 turns.
Nappy’s stack appears to be headed north? It contains 1 WE, 8 HA’s, 7 Cats and 2 Chariots.
Move military units.

IBT
Nappy attacks our HA Scout near his western most city and kills him.
Thessalonica Market => LB

Turn 125 – 250AD
Nappy has Maces.
Nappy's stack now heads east.

IBT
Toku declares war on us.
We discover Paper => Education.
Utrecht Cat => Cat.
Hague Forge => HA.
Antioch Courthouse => WE.
We get a Great Spy in Constantinople.

Turn 126 – 275 AD
Stop, save and consult.

Save attached.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I don't have any feel for how important it is not to steal Machinery now.

Obviously one approach would be to steal Machinery, take Ankara (perhaps next turn -- see below), then upgrade axes. Since GS's are delayed, do we need to continue to rush to ED, as opposed to conserving gold for upgrading CRIII axes?

Suggest you move spy1 1N onto the mace and cats to find out if anything is on the copper and what is in Buria. (Great to have him available in that position.

Where is Nappy's stack?

If spy move does not reveal additional bad guys, then immediate concern is the three cats SW of Ankara. One approach (not dependent on Machinery) would be to bombard the city to 0% culture, but not attack the city this turn, then do kill the HA on the forest with a 3/4 experienced WE and reinforce that wounded WE with a couple melee promoted WEs and an axe to keep the mace off the forest and hope he will enter the city next turn along with the cats. The forest is a potential ongoing problem, so consider moving the worker chopping jungle NW onto that forest this turn and next to chop it down.

We are at war. How about a unit build in Sheep city, which has a barracks, rather than a market. You can have an axe in 3 turns with micro to help deal with sword barb south of Adrian and any units Asoka sends east. Then use worker 2 to chop additional units (as should worker and worker 4 for Yeha).

 

[leif erikson]

Htadus' bulb path to Democracy includes bulbing part of Liberalism. If we take Machinery, it messes up that path. The question is how much we are now delayed due to getting this Great Spy and what alternatives we have for making up the time by manipulating GP production.

Nappy's main stack in near Konya, so it turns away.

Agree we need Ankara soonest, while destroying as many units as we can.

Thanks for the idea, looks good.

 

[Htadus]

Oh well.
First, turn science to 0%. Then hire 9 scientists in Nicea for GS in 3 turns and shrinkage in 11 turns. Also hire all pop as scientists in Const. It will say GS in 4 turns but will loose a pop in 3 turns. Manage the pop as needed to get it before the GA turns end it possible.

As for Machinery, there is two ways to approach it since we have a counter to Maces in the form of cats and WE. We can keep to the current plan. Other is to steal it when the spy get the discounts. If we are going to steal, then have every city build a axe until 1 turn from completion and switch to other units. The complete the axes as Maces once we know Machinery. I am too stubborn to change the original plan with WE available. But team can decide.

Use the GSpy as a forward scout. Oh yeah like CP said lets delay taking Ankara this turn. Lets bombard culture in Ankara, kill the HA with a WE and move 2 more WE's and 2 axes to that forest tile for support, add the new group to the bombarding group and take that city next turn.

I would ignore the barb sword but do agree with the sheep build order.

 

[leif erikson]

OK, thanks. Will continue this evening and do some Haka's during the day.

Although it is a bit wet here today.