SGOTM 26 - Lurkers Thread

[Pangaea]

Added 3 chapters in my game summary, soon you might feel like reading a PR book ~~
SGOTM 26 - Lurkers Thread

Thanks for the writeup, it's very appreciated

What would you have done if somebody GE-ed Taj or even worse, the AP?

 

[Fippy]

Taj was impossible (nobody had Natio), for AP we had our Engi sitting in the city in case an AI gets Theo + GE (very unlikely).

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Aachen was razed. The AP was destroyed.

That's one way to deal with the religious diplomacy ......

 

[Gumbolt]

Loving fact they have taken down HRE capital and killed off AP. They need to take down Nuremburg to grab the cows. Be interesting to see how conquest fairs here. They have met most Ai so have astronomy. HRE old capital does have iron. useful for frigates later in their conquest.

Comparing to indecisive game their 7th city is already size 8. They are 10-15 turns behind still. No GLH but the peaceful strategy this game really seems to pay off. Thie early jud has helped get Russians to friendly too.Their city location seems to match PR and HS. I did wonder about early jud but it's a case of which tech do you forego? PR got 3 religions anyway.

A galley attack on Russia might of been interesting compared to a galleon attack. Problem is all the AI capitals started with castles making early asaults a challenge. How would HA do against castles? Likely need pults.

 

[Pangaea]

That's one way to deal with the religious diplomacy ......

Loved the next line as well

• Charlie seemed really really mad about that.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

There was also an interesting race going on between a Peter workboat and SB scouts, will they meet and unlock trading by not being isolated anymore?

There was a similar situation with HS as well I think and in their game they didn't meet!

 

[jeffelammar]

There was a similar situation with HS as well I think and in their game they didn't meet!

Quite so - SB and Peter met on turn 113.

From the timing of PR's Iron Working trade it looks like they met about turn 84-85 (750 BC).

I'm not sure how much difference that makes, but a longer period with both of them willing to trade more techs does seem like an advantage.

 

[Pangaea]

When did Peter become Friendly in the PR game? That's a big deal, where all this "We fear.." and monopoly-ish non-trading is out the window. Everything is good, as long as Peter/they don't build a wonder that the tech unlocks.

 

[Tonny]

SB became Friendly on turn 108, shortly after followed by Peter on turn 110.

 

[Fippy]

PR might be getting bored of hearing this
..but i can already point out our biggest and huge mistake for everyone: not building National Park (when we realized all bfc forests were already gone).
Looking at HS game and how much science their Cap produces, i would estimate this did cost us at least 4 turns and we are lucky it didn't matter.
I was really downbeat when i realized, but tried to not let that spread around.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

PR might be getting bored of hearing this
..but i can already point out our biggest and huge mistake for everyone: not building National Park (when we realized all bfc forests were already gone).
Looking at HS game and how much science their Cap produces, i would estimate this did cost us at least 4 turns and we are lucky it didn't matter.
I was really downbeat when i realized, but tried to not let that spread around.

It is a tough wonder to build in your capital - normally, there is so many urgent needs early on, all forest is chopped soon (health allowing). Here, I guess it is a very good game for NP, since there is no need to produce settlers and even great wonders are limited, so much less things too chop

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Do I remember correctly that PR got they level 5 unit from privateers? Was it tough?

I also enjoyed very much detailed analysis by @Fippy, @Gumbolt and @Tony.

Would be great if you could add final screenshots of your cities (cannot access the game on Mac).

@Fippy also mentioned somewhere else on CFC that less advanced players typically do not appreciate diplo. Here, looks like getting AI to friendly asap was very important for your strategy, it would be very interesting to have a detailed post on AI management. It would be also very interesting to do cost/benefit analysis on techs gifted/received, war bribes/vs. diplo bonuses, etc.

I almost never bribe AI to do things, it typically seems to costly to me, but reading your thread, I realized that I am probably missing big time on free tech opportunities etc. Looks like creating a "fake" shared war just for the diplo bonus makes sense?

 

[lymond]

Do I remember correctly that PR got they level 5 unit from privateers? Was it tough?

We unlocked HE simply from promoted Musket and unlocked West Point from a GG (earned from sniping Chuckie's units) attached to a ship. We did not build any privateers

All in all it was very very easy and had very little cost

edit: Boudi is AGG/Char which helps a lot as well

HE needs level 4 and WP needs level 6

 

[Fippy]

L5 unit was with 3 Muskies (not bad free c1 from Agg) and some sea battles with Caras & Galleons vs Galleys and Triremes

Our diplo game was based on "enabling AIs", a term that i think WT invented.
Basically in this scenario we didn't care about what techs they get (as they are no danger for an AP win), as long as they are not contesting our wonders (and we also wanted to avoid Privateers, prolly a bit too much). Oh and also not too many techs towards Lib.

So for example we avoided giving them Theo (AP) while they can have techs like Feuda, Engineering.
We get rewarded by having more opportunities to trade for useful techs that we need, as they spend less time on reseaching useless stuff.
We always looked for getting some smaller gold amounts from those (almost) tech gifts.

Gathering diplo points is standard for any AP game, and "you shared your tech advances with us" always a nice bonus for being generous.
Those AIs did sit in their corners, we had no intention to fight them so we exctracted what was possible by advancing them

 

[lymond]

Funny, just played a game yesterday where 2 AIs started sending out Privies within a matter of a coupla turns after getting Chem, including blockading my GLH capital. I don't think it was incorrect to be cautious about Privateers. However, PR was overly cautious by not enabling the AIs more trying to avoid them.

 

[Pangaea]

Seems like HS have been worried about privateers too, which is understandable. They are nasty to deal with, and sometimes the AI will build lots of them.

 

[Fippy]

True but 1 Frigate (at each endangered spot) + Airship (we called it Blimp) stops them cold.
We should have built an additional ship or 2 and advance them some more sooner.
If they can build Privs there will also be plenty AI Frigates roaming around, which might attack them before we must.

 

[Pangaea]

It was Silver and it was very early - that incident is written in 10ft high letters in the Hall of Mapmakers to remind us to populate those hills with some late tech resource .......

Is the Hall itself also , or only the inhabitants?

The UN thing for HS looked strange, but glad they, err, cleared up the mystery

Wait, I was looking at the AP page.

We're still on for a T221 victory screen. Someone double check me. On the F8 screen you can pick Diplo Victory but you also have to select the UN and I was looking at the default AP screen.

 

[Fippy]

Metal plops on hills is an interesting topic, NZ i wonder why did you want to avoid Iron/Copper so much?
Possibly attacking SB came with serious disadvantages imo, and i think peaceful was such a strong option that Iron or Copper made little difference for our game.

edit: summary post completed (might look over it later), got a bit lazy in the final stages which reflects well how not much was going on there.

 

[jeffelammar]

One thing I was pondering a while back when HR made 1st contact with the 4 AIs in the new world was religion. Since religion is often a major driver of isolated AI behavior, I was specifically interested in the effect of random spread. Now that all teams have made contact, I figured I'd do a summary.

Spoiler :

In HS, US and TI: Saladin, Louis and Otto formed a Hindu , leaving Buddhist Charly on the outside.
Note: I'm assuming on TI here since they have only met Otto. It seems likely since TI founded Judaism so it can't have spread to the new world until 1st contact.

In PR's game, Louis founded Judaism, so they encountered 3 religious blocks at contact. Louis (Jewish), Saladin and Otto (Hindi), Charly (Buddhist).

If the 1st contact dates were similar, I would have compared techs at 1st contact to see if fighting had slowed down progress in the new world.

Since PR made contact 20+ turns earlier than the other teams, it is a little harder to compare apples to apples.
I would be curious to know if they noticed any difference or were able to leverage any of the increased tensions.

Spoiler :

* indicates founder
() indicates a founded religion not being practiced

Home Slices : 1st contact on 136 (Germany)
Buddhist: HRE*
Hinduism: Arabia*, France, Germany
Judaism: (France)
Confucianism: HS*, Native America, Russia
Taoism: (Russia)
Christianity: (Arabia)
Islam: (Irrelevant, but founded later by Germany)

Phoenix Rising: 1st contact around turn 102
Buddhist: HRE*
Hindu: Arabia*, Germany
Judaism: France*
Confucianism: PR*, Native America, Russia
Taoism: (PR)
Christianity: (PR for eventual Apostolic Palce)
Islam: (Irrelevant, but founded later by Germany)

Unusual Suspects: 1st contact turn 125 (Germany)
Note: US has no state religion yet
Buddhist: HRE*
Hinduism: Arabia*, France, Germany
Judaism: Russia*
Confucianism: (Russia)
Taoism: (Unusual Suspects)
Christianity: (HRE)
Islam: Not founded yet

The Indecisive: 1st contact with Germany at or shortly after 138 when they got Optics.
Note: TI has not yet met Arabia, HRE and Louis but they have maps, so we can see founders. I think it is reasonable guess to assume Louis and Saladin are Hindu. Saladin founded it and Louis is closer to him, so more likely to have gotten Hinduism than Buddhism.
Buddhist: HRE*
Hinduism: Arabia*, Germany, [probably France]
Judaism: The Indecisive*, Russia
Confucianism: Native America*
Taoism: (The Indecisive)
Christianity: (The Indecisive)
Islam: Not founded

It doesn't seem to me to have made much of a difference in the game. I'm curious if anyone sees something that I missed that did have more significance.