Should halal and kosher slaughtering be forbidden??

[Bill3000]

At least the Jews and Muslims don't eat an animal species that is self-aware. Let's go the other way and ban pork.

 

[Miles Teg]

At least the Jews and Muslims don't eat an animal species that is self-aware. Let's go the other way and ban pork.

...but I love my dolphin steaks!

 

[warpus]

At least the Jews and Muslims don't eat an animal species that is self-aware. Let's go the other way and ban pork.

You know that the main reason for the conflict in the middle east is that nobody eats bacon, right?

 

[Miles Teg]

Whimpering pansy hypocrites. You can't whine about humanity towards animals (what in God's ass did I just say) and want animal food and animal goods and forced animal slavery. Since you're equatizing humans and animals I suppose I can say it's okay to own a slave (a human one and not a pet) as long as you treat the little subhuman thing well.

I have no idea if you're a card-carrying member of PETA, or parodying that insane attitude.

 

[aelf]

Personally, I find the entire idea behind kosher and halal and haram completely ridiculous!

What's so ridiculous about the concept of haram?

 

[Joecoolyo]

The cut must be provided with a knife sharp enough to cut through a man's fingers without providing any immediate pain.( Similar knives are used in cutting large amount of Paper in mills.) The slaughter must be done within two and a half swipe ( one forward, one back and one ending in the middle while going forward) and the wound must be as clean as possible. This motion digs through the inner arteries of the animal and mostly prevents bubbling of blood within it. Care has to be taken that the nervous system is in no way damaged, for the direct attack on the nervous coil would provide serious pain to the animal before death. If any other method is used or the animal is slaughtered with a dull blade, its meat will not become legal(halal) for consumption. The animal must be brought to the slaughtering place and laid down gently as to not bruise it. The blade must be kept hidden until the very last moment while the jugular of the animal is felt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabīḥah#Slaughter

Did everyone just miss this post or what? This is the kosher/halal way to do it, they don't just cut their throat and hang them to die. They kill the animal in the most painless way possible first, then they do all the draining and such. I actually think it's pretty humane, compared to the alternatives.

 

[innonimatu]

They don't have to - in Islamic countries, it's traditional that each family slaughters the animals itself (on many occasions) and little children are exposed to it literally all the time.

I remember that when I was little, I was pretty horrified and traumatized by seeing how my relatives living in the country treated animals - how they were killing rabbits, chicken, ducks, pigs, etc. I even hated the traditional Christmas dish (carp) because it usually involved buying it alive and killing it at home.

Isn't it interesting how someone who is so about killing rabbits or chickens has also been advocating genocide for palestinians?

And I see that those muslims are evil because of how they kill animals, too! Never waste a good excuse, right?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't know about halal practices, but kosher slaughtering is more humane than most methods, being the most humane system in the world for millennia. It makes a point that the animal is to be killed quickly with a single clean cut, and requires the slaughter have extensive training to prevent the animal from taking too long to die or suffering too much. Iirc, they position the cut in such a way that it immediately stops the flow of blood to the animal's brain and reduces blood pressure there enough that the animal looses consciousness almost immediately, long before it looses enough blood to actually die.


Stunning methods are not allowed in most interpretations of kosher standards because it requires the animal be able to stand ion its own right before the slaughter. That precaution was probably put in place to make sure people weren't eating animals that were sick with pathogens that can infect humans, such as Mad Cow Disease. Iirc the US has similar laws, but are a little less strict so as to allow stunning. I've heard that stunning is sometimes used right when it looks like the animal was about to fall anyway, making stunned animals a little more risky to eat.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Apparently, the practice of hanging an unstunned animal so the blood will more easily drain out is not legal in this country, as it is in many others.

Instead, they are supposed to use an ASPCA Pen designed specifically for this purpose.

More details here.

 

[Joecoolyo]

I don't know about halal practices, but kosher slaughtering is more humane than most methods, being the most humane system in the world for millennia. It makes a point that the animal is to be killed quickly with a single clean cut, and requires the slaughter have extensive training to prevent the animal from taking too long to die or suffering too much. Iirc, they position the cut in such a way that it immediately stops the flow of blood to the animal's brain and reduces blood pressure there enough that the animal looses consciousness almost immediately, long before it looses enough blood to actually die.


Stunning methods are not allowed in most interpretations of kosher standards because it requires the animal be able to stand ion its own right before the slaughter. That precaution was probably put in place to make sure people weren't eating animals that were sick with pathogens that can infect humans, such as Mad Cow Disease. Iirc the US has similar laws, but are a little less strict so as to allow stunning. I've heard that stunning is sometimes used right when it looks like the animal was about to fall anyway, making stunned animals a little more risky to eat.

This. Too.

 

[Lillefix]

Iirc, they position the cut in such a way that it immediately stops the flow of blood to the animal's brain and reduces blood pressure there enough that the animal looses consciousness almost immediately, long before it looses enough blood to actually die.

That's well and nice, but it's only in theory. I imagine stunning an animal is far easier, than cutting it so that it loses conciousness immediately.

In any case, not everyone agrees:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2977086.stm

The Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC), which advises the government on how to avoid cruelty to livestock, says the way Kosher and Halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals.

 

[Dachs]

I have no idea if you're a card-carrying member of PETA, or parodying that insane attitude.

Read moar fc posts

 

[MobBoss]

At least the Jews and Muslims don't eat an animal species that is self-aware. Let's go the other way and ban pork.

Not possible. It just tastes too good. A pig could carry a conversation with me, and discuss philosophy, but I would still whack him at the end of the talk so I could have some bacon.

 

[kosiosko 1]

Nope, it's unnatural. Humans need meat and until we find a way to grow it in laboratories, we'll need to kill animals. But it should be done in the most humane and sanitary way possible, and kept out of public sight.

Is it hypocritical? A bit, yes. Happy now?

i just think it should be more public, would go along way towards better farming practices , the more we know the better we can make chioces, as comsumers

 

[The Imp]

It seems kinda pointless to go after the Muslims and Jews, especially since it seems that overall their methods are at worse a wash with today's mainstream way of slaughtering animals(Taking into consideration the conditions leading up to the slaughter)

Lets go after the companies slaughtering millions of animals with inhumane methods first.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Sorry, just a joke:

Spoiler :

"A whiteman could carry a conversation with me, and discuss philosophy, but I would still whack him at the end of the talk so I could have some delicate human flesh."

Lets go after the companies slaughtering millions of animals with inhumane methods first.

Second it.

 

[Tee Kay]

Did everyone just miss this post or what?

People see what they want to see...

 

[Formaldehyde]

I guess you missed the above posts which explain that not only is the traditional kosher and halil practices of slitting their throats and hanging them so the blood will more easily flow out are are apparently not nearly as humane as other methods, they are also quite dangerous to the workers and even illegal in the US.

 

[emzie]

Being drained of blood is a pretty quick death. It may not be particularly pretty to watch but it's not unnecessarily cruel.

 

[Joecoolyo]

I guess you missed the above posts which explain that not only is the traditional kosher and halil practices of slitting their throats and hanging them so the blood will more easily flow out are are apparently not nearly as humane as other methods, they are also quite dangerous to the workers and even illegal in the US.

Except for the fact that the way they slit the throat, causes an instant painless death. It's not the bleeding which causes it, which seems to be a huge misconception in this thread.

That's the entire point of it being kosher/halal, because our religions don't want us eating meat that saw terrible suffering/a painful death.