Should the Dems work to shutdown the Government?

[GoodEnoughForMe]

The government shuts down if a spending bill isn't passed this Friday. While this isn't a new subject, per se, the dynamics this time are different, with Democrats such as Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren having previously threatened to shut it down if a DACA fix is not part of the spending bill. This says nothing about CHIP, either, which while in the latest house bill, has not been a focus at all and has resulted in states shuttering the program as soon as next month if no new funding is passed.

DACA remains a popular program amongst Americans; depending on the poll, upwards of 70% want recipients to stay, and over 40% say that it is at least worth considering shuttering the government to keep Dreamers from being, you know, indefinitely detained and/or kicked out. Buuuut as with all things, Dems will be eying their generic congressional ballot lead, the fact that DACA and the rights of immigrants are consistently ranked as relatively unimportant overall by Americans (or, I should say, white Americans) and that shutting down the government is generally unpopular.

But I think there's also the argument to be made, even putting aside the relative morality of the issue, that polarization both protects Dems if they shut down the government from taking a big hit, and will probably even help a bit amongst the very progressive side of the base, Latinx consitutents, and maybe even millennials. It probably doesn't help them with the seemingly party switching urban and educated whites that are mostly just somewhat apprehensive about Trump and Republicans.

My question is; do you think Dems should do it? I don't really care if you want to argue strictly from a moral perspective (shutting down the gov would furlough workers right before Christmas. happy holidays! I guess would be a good starting counterpoint), a politically strategic perspective, both, whatever. But do you think Dems should block 60 Senate votes in order to try to get DACA resolved?

 

[Perfection]

I would be perfectly satisfied by a shutdown to force daca chip or both. These are good programs that promote American values.

 

[metalhead]

Being furloughed does allow one to collect unemployment. Obviously that is substantially worse than collecting a full paycheck, but it does mean that furloughed federal workers aren't left totally in a lurch. And Congress usually ends up paying the furloughed workers anyways when the spending bill ends the shutdown.

They should shut it down over the tax bill, if they're going to shut it down. DACA and CHIP are small potatoes, politically. The tax bill is much higher profile, getting a ton of press. The ability to stop spending bills is literally the only card the Democrats have to play. They ought to play it to try to win something big.

That feels crappy to say, given how much bigger of an impact DACA and CHIP have on people who are affected by them, but the symbolic stand against a tax cut for the wealthy would matter more. Maybe offer an either/or - scrap the tax bill, or pass CHIP AND DACA, or no spending deal.

 

[Perfection]

Tax cuts for the wealthy is the entire reason republicans exist. You can't really ask them to give up on it.

 

[metalhead]

Of course you can ask them to give up on it. It's a very unpopular bill. Tell them you'll reconsider if they take all the crap out that affects corporations and the top 20% and give all of the tax cut to the middle class and poor.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I've tried that and my congresswoman replies with fox news bullet points. She and her staff do not actually read or listen to their constituents. We are not the most important voice in the national political conversation, that is reserved for wealthy donors who can afford to keep up with the endless election cycle with contributions.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Yeah basically. I've seen a lot of hot takes about how this 'hurts' the GOP base or constituency or whatever, but it doesn't, because the constituency of Washington is the top 1%.

 

[metalhead]

People writing those garbage takes should lose their right to be published. Cutting rich people's taxes is what they are known for, and the only policy they can all pretty much agree on. Their constituencies and their base decided a long time ago that they really don't care about how GOP tax policy affects them personally. Writing about it is a complete waste of bits.

 

[Lexicus]

I don't think most of the Democrats' voters care if the government shuts down. It's apparent that under Republican control the government does not work for the large majority of Americans anyway.

 

[metalhead]

I think the Democrats' voters would mostly all have aneurysms from shock if their elected officials actually took a risk and made a principled stand on something.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Literally just got a long-form response from one of my Democrat Senators while I typed that last message. Like I said, all I have ever gotten from my Rep is a list of bullet points one time. She ignores the rest of my messages.

It's almost as if one side is reasonable and responsive to their voters and the other isn't. Hmm something something false equivalency

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Holy crap she (her staff) took the time to give a brief history of the internet and how net neutrality has benefited the economy in paragraph format and left a phone number to call.

I'm impressed Kamala Harris

 

[metalhead]

She's running, of course that's the response!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

My Rep is running too...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

My rep is running and never bothers to respond to me.

 

[rah]

All I get are robot calls.

 

[metalhead]

For president. She's running for president. Ergo, responsive!

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

My rep simply ran towards the far right over the last 10 years.

 

[Cheetah]

All this talk of contacting your representatives makes me wonder if I can do the same in Norway...

 

[Perfection]

Of course you can ask them to give up on it. It's a very unpopular bill. Tell them you'll reconsider if they take all the crap out that affects corporations and the top 20% and give all of the tax cut to the middle class and poor.

They'd just pass it and say "what now?"

You gonna try to force a repeal? Good luck!

Remember, super pac money is more important to them than functional government