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Should we respect the military?

Thank you. I'd most certainly like to see some answers for this, which under any other circumstance would be deserving of a thread all on it's own.

Indeed. The premise is that some people believe that people who serve the military and are motivated by patriotism are worth more respect than others. My question is what if that patriotism is directed against you ? Does that make that patriotism a less ideal thing ?
 
We tend to give special respect to soldiers, seamen and airmen because they are sacrificing something for our country. It is often felt that they are making sacrifices for our benefit, in order to keep us safe. The question I'd like to pose is whether this attitude stands up to scrutiny.

Consider: Almost every western nation, with perhaps the exception of Switzerland, has a professional enlisted army. This army is a well-trained, regular force. Its staff are well-paid, career soldiers. They have ironclad job security and have taken up war as a definite career. Given recruiting tactics, this is often in the face of a decided lack of more appealing options. A primary motive in enlisting, then, is personal gain. The military provides a career path and well paying jobs, often to people who may not have that opportunity otherwise.

Well Paid? Look at an E-1's monthly pay and compair it to even the notoriously low NYPD Cadet pay. Look at an E-6 compaired to middle management in the private sector. Mind you the job your doing is most often phyiscally demanding and involves danger that not even police deal with in many places. Ironclad security? the US under Clinton cut whole divisions from the force and thousands of troops were forced out of the service, many of them with 10+ years of service. Personal gain? show me one person who has become " wealthy " in the military please.

Which begs the question, what exactly are soldiers sacrificing? Does the very fact that they have a heightened risk of death mean they warrant respect? And if so, why not give similiar respect to ther dangerous jobs, like mining?
Or are they underpaid? That is, paid less then they could earn had they not enlisted? And note, this option raises questions regarding the morality of underpaying soldiers.

How about sometimes there lives, personal freedoms and quality of life? being a miner and being in the Infantry are two completely diffrent worlds. There is something far more personal and scary about combat than there is about industral accidents. Sorry. You can make more as the fry guy at micky d's than you can enlisting as an E-1.

Another route might be that soldiers are not 'sacrificing' anything in joining the military. Rather, we respect them in the same way you respect anybody rendering you a service. The same way you'd respect a doctor, lawyer or police officer. Of course, this forsakes the more emotive rhetoric in a way many people may not be comfortable with. More importanly, it relegates soldiers to basically mercenaries.

If you discount the fact that Soldiers/Marines along with Police and Firemen run towards danger. 99.9% of the world runs from it. That alone should be worthy of respect, considering the Soldier/Marine is not making anywere near what a cop or fireman makes. Oh and Mercenaries make up to mid six figures in these times... I can see why a lot of Soldiers/Marines go into that line of work.

Thus, im curious, is our especial respect for the military justified? And if so, why?

Spend some time in a warzone, trust me :)

Bronx OIF/OEF
 
yes, they should be respected, just as anybody should be respected, be it doctors, lawyers, masons, carpenters, etc.
 
What about a savage rebel military? Should they be respected? :p



And btw, "nobody joins the military to get rich". Just ask anybody who's in the military.
 
In the olden days all the way from the ancient era up to Cold War the world needed men like them. They were valued then, they were desired, but things...oh, are so much different now. With all the liars and hypocrites running the world, war isn’t what it used to be. Your loosing your place in a world that no longer needs you, a world that now spurns your very existence.

Long live PMCs and the concept of a war economy. With technology, soldiers will become mere tools for power hungry men to manipulate. I intend to get a headstart on all of this.
 
:mad: This thread is just disgusting. That's the only way to describe it.

I shouldn't need to explain why the soldiers who are defending your freedom deserve your respect. If you can't figure that out on your own, you just lost a lot of my respect.
 
In the olden days all the way from the ancient era up to Cold War the world needed men like them. They were valued then, they were desired, but things...oh, are so much different now. With all the liars and hypocrites running the world, war isn’t what it used to be. Your loosing your place in a world that no longer needs you, a world that now spurns your very existence.

Long live PMCs and the concept of a war economy. With technology, soldiers will become mere tools for power hungry men to manipulate. I intend to get a headstart on all of this.

And your baseing this on your experance in what military and armed conflict?
 
Which soldiers are defending my freedom ?
 
veterans deserve my respect much more.

veterans of wars that actually had things to do with my freedom.

those veterans have been dead for decades.
 
I must admit, in peacetime (the only military I know because the war ended before my training), it's a really easy and fun job and the pay is absurdly high. I mean really, for someone with a highschool degree to get ~$1500 dollars a month spending money, free room and board, free medical, and all sorts of other benefits (including 50K for college for 3.5 years of service) AND get to jump out of airplanes, shoot machineguns and missiles and rifles and pistols, use night vision devices and thermal sights, have a regimented exercise schedule resulting in being in great shape and receive training that (at least) results in greater personal discipline and (at most) results in a high paying civilian job is just too awesome.

Perhaps if I was tramautized or killed in war, I would feel differently.

I respect the military because, since I haven't been in for some years, any given member might be able to kick my ass.

EDIT/ps. I hope this post made this thread a little less vomitous for people with 1/2 a brain.
 
:mad: This thread is just disgusting. That's the only way to describe it.

I shouldn't need to explain why the soldiers who are defending your freedom deserve your respect. If you can't figure that out on your own, you just lost a lot of my respect.

C'mon.

I love the military.

At the same point in time, I don't think anyone is deserving of respect just because of their occupation. The respect people receive simply because of their job is called compensation.

I don't believe anyone should be placed on a pedestal simply because of their profession. I don't demand additional respect because of my job, and I don't see why military personnel should demand we bow down to them.

Look through history. Fact is that that lives of many individuals simply are not worth much. Think of the military as a corporation. The wide majority of military functions are not terribly difficult in that they require limited education, training and specialization.

Of course, this is not the case with all military personnel. Those that are best -- those that contribute the most to the welfare of me and/or my country -- regardless of profession, are those that deserve more respect than I usually pay to people. Simply doing a job for which you are fairly compensated does not meet this threshold in my eyes.
 
Worship of the military is a dangerous thing.
 
I shouldn't need to explain why the soldiers who are defending your freedom deserve your respect. If you can't figure that out on your own, you just lost a lot of my respect.

See I don't understand this argument. Most soldiers are not actively defending my freedom. Nobody is attacking the U.S., the country I live in. I also have the vast majority of my rights intact. Therefore my freedom is intact, and they are not defending it from anything. In the event of my losing one or more of my freedoms, be it speech or right to property, the most likely people to help me get them back would probably be police or lawyers, not soldiers. As far as I can tell right now, most soldiers right now are doing nothing for me at all besides taking my tax money.

If a real threat arose, and could compromise my freedom, those fighting for it deserve my respect. But there isn't. They do not defend my freedom. So they don't deserve any more respect than I give any random person because of their occupation.
 
See I don't understand this argument. Most soldiers are not actively defending my freedom. Nobody is attacking the U.S., the country I live in. I also have the vast majority of my rights intact. Therefore my freedom is intact, and they are not defending it from anything. In the event of my losing one or more of my freedoms, be it speech or right to property, the most likely people to help me get them back would probably be police or lawyers, not soldiers. As far as I can tell right now, most soldiers right now are doing nothing for me at all besides taking my tax money.

If a real threat arose, and could compromise my freedom, those fighting for it deserve my respect. But there isn't. They do not defend my freedom. So they don't deserve any more respect than I give any random person because of their occupation.

The only reason your free is due to the actions of thoes who have come before, and they will be preserved by myself and others who will come after me. You can not have a government without a military of some sort. You can not have law and order without Government. You can not have freedom worth a damn without law, order and security.
 
Miners don't deserve that level of respect because they don't directly save lives, etc.
Doctors don't because their jobs aren't very dangerous and they make @#$%loads of money.
Firemen DO because they save lives in a (relatively) low-paying, dangerous job, just like soldiers.

Note that many, if not most, soldiers are not "career" soldiers; while many seek to get promoted and make a long-term living in the military, even more are just trying to pay for college/ support a family and expect to retire before turning 30.
 
Well Paid? Look at an E-1's monthly pay and compair it to even the notoriously low NYPD Cadet pay. Look at an E-6 compaired to middle management in the private sector. Mind you the job your doing is most often phyiscally demanding and involves danger that not even police deal with in many places. Ironclad security? the US under Clinton cut whole divisions from the force and thousands of troops were forced out of the service, many of them with 10+ years of service. Personal gain? show me one person who has become " wealthy " in the military please.

How about sometimes there lives, personal freedoms and quality of life? being a miner and being in the Infantry are two completely diffrent worlds. There is something far more personal and scary about combat than there is about industral accidents. Sorry. You can make more as the fry guy at micky d's than you can enlisting as an E-1.

Ok, clearly soldiers renumeration is a pretty contestable subject. So, for the sake of arguement, let's say soldiers are underpaid. They are sacrificing monetary renumeration in order to fight for their country, and therefore deserve special respect. Would they no longer deserve said respect if you increased their wages? Is it right that soldiers are underpaid?
 
Miners don't deserve that level of respect because they don't directly save lives, etc.
Doctors don't because their jobs aren't very dangerous and they make @#$%loads of money.
Firemen DO because they save lives in a (relatively) low-paying, dangerous job, just like soldiers.

Note that many, if not most, soldiers are not "career" soldiers; while many seek to get promoted and make a long-term living in the military, even more are just trying to pay for college/ support a family and expect to retire before turning 30.

a soldier's job isnt to save lives.
 
The only reason your free is due to the actions of thoes who have come before, and they will be preserved by myself and others who will come after me. You can not have a government without a military of some sort. You can not have law and order without Government. You can not have freedom worth a damn without law, order and security.
That is true, those who in the past actually defended freedom deserve respect. But they probably aren't still in the military. And there is no actual present threat to our freedom that the military has to deal with. Should they still be present? Of course. Do they actively, right now, defend my freedom? No. I am not an anarchist. We need a military and government, but so much of tax payers' money goes to the military, and our military does not need to be that huge.

I will respect those who defend my freedom by risking their lives. These people, today, are not likely to be soldiers.

I don't mean any offense. Your occupation isn't a waste of time, but it doesn't actively defend my freedom. This means from me, there will not be extra respect.
 
So, Syterion, the soldiers who chased Al Qaeda out of its safe-haven in Afghanistan and crippled its ability to plan attacks on America didn't "actively benefit our society"?
 
So, Syterion, the soldiers who chased Al Qaeda out of its safe-haven in Afghanistan and crippled its ability to plan attacks on America didn't "actively benefit our society"?

what about the ones who attacked iraq and caused more terrorism by giving it all a place to fester?
 
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