Sieg Heil

[Timsup2nothin]

The Abyss is one of my favorite movies, especially the scene near the end when the alien ship appears. Kinda like the end of Grand Canyon when the friends look down at 3 billion years of Earth history and discover how insignificant we are.

Yeah. I can say that for people on a navy ship getting just lifted out of the water and beached like a hooked fish would be irksome in a way few people would understand.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Speaking of not getting it. Let me explain. The aliens, based on one sample of humanity, are pleased that humanity is taking its "first steps" towards joining universal society. If that sample had been Trump, they'd have annihilated us for sure, and rightfully so. Get it?

The aliens in the movie were peaceful. They would not have "annihilated" anyone. They would probably just have instituted their own version of the Prime Directive.

My advice: Don't judge all first contact movies by the mindless shoot-'em-ups. Read the original novel, see the movie, and if that's not enough, read Sagan's books and watch his interviews. For that matter, watch the original Sagan Cosmos series (it's available online).

Not a warmonger bent on annihilation anywhere, except for the suicide bomber in the movie - which was not part of the novel Sagan wrote.

 

[Berzerker]

They were peaceful because Jodie Foster showed up, not Donald Trump... I doubt those aliens got to where they were technologically without the capability of violence.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

They were peaceful because Jodie Foster showed up, not Donald Trump... I doubt those aliens got to where they were technologically without the capability of violence.

Whatever their capabilities, the point of the "good thing they didn't meet Trump" comment was obvious to the most casual observer.

My advice:

When you demonstrate any reason I should be interested in your advice I'll let you know.

 

[HoloDoc]

I sure have.

Coupled with your avatar, this post is incredible.

And I'm ashamed of myself sixteen hours a day. The other eight hours I'm asleep, dreaming of the things that make me ashamed of myself.

Whatever their capabilities, the point of the "good thing they didn't meet Trump" comment was obvious to the most casual observer.



When you demonstrate any reason I should be interested in your advice I'll let you know.

This. Really not sure why you're having so much trouble with this concept Valka. It's a simple one.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

They were peaceful because Jodie Foster showed up, not Donald Trump... I doubt those aliens got to where they were technologically without the capability of violence.

Oh, for...

The aliens' technology uses an interstellar transport system invented by a much older civilization. Do you really not remember the scene where the alien (in the guise of Elly's father) explains all this to her?

And do you really think that if Trump had used the machine to go there, that he'd have been able to do anything but make the aliens so disgusted that they'd have cut off communications to Earth for the next several millennia?

Remember the overdone chair design in the machine that would have killed Elly if she hadn't released herself to go after the compass necklace that Palmer Joss gave her? She was saved by her emotions - positive ones - that Trump just doesn't understand.

I've read the novel several times and have seen the movie easily over a dozen times, closer to a couple of dozen times. I think I understand it pretty well by now.

This. Really not sure why you're having so much trouble with this concept Valka. It's a simple one.

It doesn't make much sense to me. If you (generic "you") have to pick something to condemn the entire human race over, why not pick something worse than Trump? I'll admit to having some kind of similar reaction when one of the petition sites sent me a graphic photo of what happens to poached elephants - bodies with their entire faces hacked off, just to get the ivory.

But I do recognize that most of the people on the planet aren't guilty of such atrocities.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Quick! Duck! Nevermind, a mile over and climbing fast.

 

[HoloDoc]

Quick! Duck! Nevermind, a mile over and climbing fast.

I really don't understand how we could make this simpler for her to understand at this point. It has gone so far over her head that it is practically in orbit.

 

[Commodore]

Allegiance should not be pledged to a piece of cloth which can be waved around by any jingoistic, wannabe tyrant but to the Constitution, to the Constitution, and above all, to the Constitution.

And what do you think that flag represents? When you pledge allegiance to the flag you are pledging allegiance to the Constitution. Hence why part of the pledge is "and to the Republic, for which it stands."

I just don't get why saying the pledge at school every morning is a sword some parents feel the need to fall on. And let's be clear here, it is the parents, not the kids. I guarantee the kids, without the influence of their parents to get in the way, don't care one way or the other about whether or not they say the pledge every morning. Anyway, it's just words. The kid says them every morning, it takes all of 30 seconds, and then they go about their day. It's not like the schools are executing kids who don't say the pledge "enthusiastically enough" or have government agents observing students to see if "they really mean it" when they recite the pledge.

All it is, is a harmless little tradition that helps promote a sense of national unity and identity. Only someone who hates this country would truly have a problem with that, and if they hate the country so much then that begs the question "why are you here?" On the other side though, yeah it's a little ridiculous how far Texas takes the punishment for those who don't stand for the pledge, but an extreme action over a trivial issue will almost always prompt an even more extreme reaction. That's what we are seeing in Texas. A few noisy people made a big stink about their kid standing for the pledge, so Texas responded by legally mandating kids stand for the pledge. An action they likely would never have taken if a few noisy people didn't insist on shouting about what is, at most, a minor inconvenience.

Lesson learned: Sometimes speaking up can actually make the situation worse.

I remember having to stand (and being pressured into knowing the words and speaking them) when I arrived in the US in 01. It was sooooo weird.

You're French though, so pledging allegiance to other nations should be like second nature to you.

Moderator Action: That is not funny and is hurtful. Another one like that and you'll be looking at a short holiday. --LM

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I guarantee the kids, without the influence of their parents to get in the way, don't care one way or the other about whether or not they say the pledge every morning.

Took a poll of every single kid, did you?

What will you say when your own child expresses a political opinion that's contrary to those you hold? Will you deem yourself to have gotten in the way, since otherwise she would have been too apathetic to care?

Anyway, it's just words.

Then why are people so upset if some kids prefer not to say them?

It's not like the schools are executing kids who don't say the pledge "enthusiastically enough" or have government agents observing students to see if "they really mean it" when they recite the pledge.

But some of them are punishing kids, and by suspending a kid for not participating in this "harmless little tradition" (your own words), they are depriving that kid of an education.

All it is, is a harmless little tradition that helps promote a sense of national unity and identity.

It may help promote those things, but is it critical to achieve them? Surely there are people in your country who feel a sense of national unity and identity without this ritual.

 

[Synobun]

What will you say when your own child expresses a political opinion that's contrary to those you hold?

It's Commodore. He'll open the front door and say "You're free to leave."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Only someone who hates this country would truly have a problem with that, and if they hate the country so much then that begs the question "why are you here?"

Born here. Gotta be somewhere.

 

[sophie]

I guarantee the kids, without the influence of their parents to get in the way, don't care one way or the other about whether or not they say the pledge every morning.

If they don't care about the pledge they're making, then what's the point in insisting they make it?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If they don't care about the pledge they're making, then what's the point in insisting they make it?

Ya gotta teach them that making pledges is a meaningless mouthing of words somehow. Otherwise they start thinking "my word is my bond" and other communist type thoughts.

 

[HoloDoc]

If they don't care about the pledge they're making, then what's the point in insisting they make it?

We can't let them think for themselves. They should be glad we're not playing the pledge over headphones every night while they sleep.

 

[metatron]

It's not like the schools are executing kids who don't say the pledge "enthusiastically enough" or have government agents observing students to see if "they really mean it" when they recite the pledge.

All it is, is a harmless little tradition that helps promote a sense of national unity and identity. Only someone who hates this country would truly have a problem with that,

But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
[...]
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.​

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
[...]
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.​

As I said, communism.

 

[Quintillus]

Now that it's been years since it was an everyday thing, saying the pledge of allegiance or singing the national anthem seems like a strange thing when it comes up. But I remember that back in elementary school, we said the pledge every day. It didn't seem strange then, since I didn't know otherwise, but in retrospect, it would have made more sense to spend all that time teaching civics instead of reciting a pledge hundreds of times. Even so, it was not mandatory. In particular I remember that through third grade, one of the students was Japanese, and accordingly never participated. But unlike in this case, that was never a big deal.

These days, it seems odd to me when the national anthem is sung prior to a sporting event, and it almost always is in professional sports. It would fit in at national-teams-level soccer match or an Olympic medal ceremony or when a military academy team was participating, but at an ordinary hockey game? We don't do it before a theater performance or a concert or a group dinner, so I'm not sure why we do it at sporting events. I also wonder whether it is done in Canada, or if the Canadian teams only have O Canada played when they are playing abroad?

But I also became skeptical about patriotism during the Bush the Younger years, and more cynical about it after learning of all the wars fought over patriotism in the course of history, particularly in the twentieth century. Some people seem to believe in it just as much as their forebears did in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

 

[Hygro]

But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
[...]
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.​

What’s that from?

 

[Berzerker]

Sermon on the mount (Matt 5:33-37)

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil."