Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015

[JosEPh_II]

I'm running 9322. Yes, I know how to arrest criminals with law enforcement units. My point was, the handcuffs icon wasn't there when I selected the sheriff unit (1 movement left), it appeared after I moved the sheriff out of the city and back into the city (0.8 movement left, as seen in the screenshot).

So far with 9322 at 3096BC I've not encountered that problem with my Town Watchmen. Hence the statement.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There appears to be a problem with the Arsonist unit. It is supposed to be limited to 5 but I can build 5 then I can build another 5.

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

Law enforcement units that are stationed in a city cannot arrest criminals unless they move out of the city and move back in.

Screenshot 1 (Can't arrest anyone now): http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...198/A7C3459B4749BE1EC25A762FDD52B9D2F82BA84D/
Screenshot 2 (Moved the sheriff out and back in, now he can arrest criminals.): http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...644/DAE5FF42DB69DF3FD5760740416CC420B24CE90C/

Law Enforcement units that are grouped cannot arrest criminals. In your screenshot, your Sheriffs appear to be grouped together; split out the one that you want to do the arresting with.

 

[JosEPh_II]

There appears to be a problem with the Arsonist unit. It is supposed to be limited to 5 but I can build 5 then I can build another 5.

Nope I changed the Limit to 10 back when we had the Siege Ram problem and I adjusted the axe and spear unit strs. Also the change was in response to city defences being way too high also. I felt it was totally unfair for the Arsonist to be limited to 5 units when back then Battering, Siege rams and Siege Towers were Unlimited. Now you will notice there is a 20 unit limit on those units as well.

The arsonists were str 10 but T-brd reduced them to 8 here recently. A move I personally disagree with.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm running 9322. Yes, I know how to arrest criminals with law enforcement units. My point was, the handcuffs icon wasn't there when I selected the sheriff unit (1 movement left), it appeared after I moved the sheriff out of the city and back into the city (0.8 movement left, as seen in the screenshot).

I would need to evaluate the savegame at that point to see how this is happening.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Nope I changed the Limit to 10 back when we had the Siege Ram problem and I adjusted the axe and spear unit strs. Also the change was in response to city defences being way too high also. I felt it was totally unfair for the Arsonist to be limited to 5 units when back then Battering, Siege rams and Siege Towers were Unlimited. Now you will notice there is a 20 unit limit on those units as well.

The arsonists were str 10 but T-brd reduced them to 8 here recently. A move I personally disagree with.

JosEPh

Arsonists were str 8 and have not been changed. Str 8 is too powerful for them at the tech stage they are at unless everything else gets more powerful to match them. But I'm waiting to chart things before making changes.

It may have been 10 waaaaaaaay back. Which just made it all the more OP for its era.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Law Enforcement units that are grouped cannot arrest criminals. In your screenshot, your Sheriffs appear to be grouped together; split out the one that you want to do the arresting with.

Yep... that could be the issue.

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

I've got another case of a blockade persisting past the defeat of the unit doing the actual blockading. In this case, there's an Outrigger belonging to Charles V (Holy Roman Empire) blockading the city of Mycenae in the northeast corner of my empire. Attacking the outrigger with either of the caravels off the east coast near Pharsalos results in the capture of the outrigger as a war prize, without lifting the blockade.

Save is attached, the caravels should be the only units still active.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I've got another case of a blockade persisting past the defeat of the unit doing the actual blockading. In this case, there's an Outrigger belonging to Charles V (Holy Roman Empire) blockading the city of Mycenae in the northeast corner of my empire. Attacking the outrigger with either of the caravels off the east coast near Pharsalos results in the capture of the outrigger as a war prize, without lifting the blockade.

Save is attached, the caravels should be the only units still active.

Happy to look at this save but... what happens if you recalculate before or after the attack? I ask because a previous recalculation could have setup the problem and the recent recalculation repair may now fix it. If you recalc afterwards, you may find that the graphics remain but the plot hover will correctly not state that the blockade is present.

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

Happy to look at this save but... what happens if you recalculate before or after the attack? I ask because a previous recalculation could have setup the problem and the recent recalculation repair may now fix it. If you recalc afterwards, you may find that the graphics remain but the plot hover will correctly not state that the blockade is present.

Recalculating before the attack leads to the attack successfully clearing the blockade, while still capturing the outrigger.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Recalculating before the attack leads to the attack successfully clearing the blockade, while still capturing the outrigger.

As suspected. I have to wonder if the blockade was setup before my fix and also before the last time you recalculated, which would not have been since my fix. The first recalc would've locked things in incorrectly. What happens when you recalc AFTER the battle?

I also have to question if an outrigger should be able to blockade but that's a rule question we should be discussing in the open forum.

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

As suspected. I have to wonder if the blockade was setup before my fix and also before the last time you recalculated, which would not have been since my fix. The first recalc would've locked things in incorrectly. What happens when you recalc AFTER the battle?

The game itself was started on SVN9318, currently on 9322. The blockade in question has only been in effect for maybe 2-3 turns, but the outrigger unit itself might have been built on an intermediate version. I'm pretty sure I performed a recalc each time I updated SVN versions. Recalculating after the battle results in the purely visual blockade you mentioned before, with mouseover showing no blockade. I didn't check the count on resources affected by the blockade/pseudoblockade to see if there's any duplication as has happened in the past with buggy blockades, though.

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

I think the code replacing animal resources in Australia with Kangaroos has a bit of an issue with its parameters. There happens to be a large polar continent in the southeast corner of my map, and it is apparently home to the elusive Antarctic Kangaroo. There are tiles with Kangaroo resources sitting at the extreme southern boundary of the entire map.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think the code replacing animal resources in Australia with Kangaroos has a bit of an issue with its parameters. There happens to be a large polar continent in the southeast corner of my map, and it is apparently home to the elusive Antarctic Kangaroo. There are tiles with Kangaroo resources sitting at the extreme southern boundary of the entire map.

Limiting the animals to where they are on Earth means that over 50% of the southern hemisphere is desert as it is water where no land animal should spawn.

Edit it probably replaced Mammoths which are not quite being placed in the correct place and wont be until the Tectonics map script starts putting some permafrost terrain down.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Arsonists were str 8 and have not been changed. Str 8 is too powerful for them at the tech stage they are at unless everything else gets more powerful to match them. But I'm waiting to chart things before making changes.

It may have been 10 waaaaaaaay back. Which just made it all the more OP for its era.

They are not OP as it stands now at str 8 even at the current tech stage. They do not get the myriad promos that other Mil units get. So I disagree very much with your assessment. Imho too much of your assessment is based off of SM results instead of regular C2C warfare play.

And I'll official state it now that I don't agree with your past charting either. So you will know where I stand and how I look at these matters pertaining to this subject.

JosEPh

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

Limiting the animals to where they are on Earth means that over 50% of the southern hemisphere is desert as it is water where no land animal should spawn.

Edit it probably replaced Mammoths which are not quite being placed in the correct place and wont be until the Tectonics map script starts putting some permafrost terrain down.

That's a PerfectMongoose 310 map I'm on. That said, yeah, I think it's likely those are replaced Mammoths. I can't think of any other animals that would spawn that far into a tundra area.

They are not OP as it stands now at str 8 even at the current tech stage. They do not get the myriad promos that other Mil units get. So I disagree very much with your assessment. Imho too much of your assessment is based off of SM results instead of regular C2C warfare play.

I should note that I feel they're a bit OP at strength 8 as well, and I play without Size Matters. I've gone into detail in other threads, though, and with the recent-ish pass increasing the strength of various contemporary units, they're no longer quite as much of an outlier. Anyway I think the main problem with them is that, for a siege unit, they're altogether too strong in open-field combat. I still feel that they should have lower base strength compared to contemporary units but high bonuses when attacking or defending cities and fortifications.

 

[Thunderbrd]

They are not OP as it stands now at str 8 even at the current tech stage. They do not get the myriad promos that other Mil units get. So I disagree very much with your assessment. Imho too much of your assessment is based off of SM results instead of regular C2C warfare play.

And I'll official state it now that I don't agree with your past charting either. So you will know where I stand and how I look at these matters pertaining to this subject.

JosEPh

You don't agree with my past charting because you didn't agree with Hydro's initial gradiant setup that I was trying to respect and leave in place as I went about things. I've not charted anything BUT criminals/law enforcement/healers/later game naval and throwing units. That's it. The throwing units I fit in to the existing setup. After which, Arsonists were moved dramatically on the tech tree to a much earlier position without changing anything about the unit itself. I recall reducing its strength a bit then but it has never been fully recalibrated to its new position.

You say the Arsonists don't get all the promos other units around it get. However, axes, swords, spears etc don't GET promos (unless they are getting them from events - is that what you mean?) However, arsonists ARE given to be quite capable of withdrawal (a little stronger on ForF, sure, but not enough to be that 'swaying'), are capable of bombardment, making it ALSO a siege unit as much as a field combat unit, and are better than swords at city attack. They already have a lot of unique advantages. They don't need to be stronger than other contemporary units on top of all that. I don't think they need to be weaker but last I saw, 8 was a point over the standard strength for their region on the tech tree. (btw, mounted are suppoed to be a pt to 2 pts higher than the standard strength for the region of the tech tree so cannot be considered to 'set the standard'.)

Anyhow, my point is, you're blaming me for decisions Hydro made that I was following suit with because I understood the basis for those decisions, which you did not. Having two modders working on balancing the units is like having two people trying to iron a shirt at one time. Neither one of us tends to be 'right' over the other but the differences in method are causing schisms in balance. I realize you're impatient to see a better-balanced mod but there's only so much I can do at one time here and I didn't start modding to become nothing but a debugging specialist.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I'm sure koshling felt the same way when he left.

And in a regular C2C game, sans the CM and SM Options, the Arsonist do not get withdrawal promos. And you are hung up on the word usage for "get". The list of promo that comes up when you build a unit. Arsonist list is much much shorter than axe, spear, archer, etc.. The only one worse is for the Rams. And the "Need to be stronger" came from them only being allowed to build 5. Even at str 10..... long ago in a land far far away.... with only 5 you were extremely limited in what you could do with them. But they were made str 8 (whether by Hydro or your design, really doesn't matter either way) and in turn I upped the Limit to 10.

I also disagree with Tripped's assessment as well. They are not OP but necessary for early game (Ancient Era) city taking and early Classical till you start getting Real siege weapons like the onager line.

In the long run it's all about different ways to play.

And as for "I understood the basis for those decisions, which you did not." How would you really know? There was a long period you were not even around. And I argued over his decisions back then too. I have been here every day since SO started this mod. Perhaps you've forgotten that? Or you think it does not matter? You do need to remember I do play almost every day. I have the in game eXperience, not just a theoretical view. My stumbling block is getting my point to come across clearly.

I'm not picking on you but I am stating my assessment as I see it play out in front of me on a daily basis.

JosEPh

 

[BlueGenie]

The new Fortification I through V get +5% Strength per level, not just defence but for attacking as well, and stay after an attack if not moving after it.
Possibly attacking should remove it, and it should likely be +5% Defensive Strength only, not Strength.

Cheers

 

[strategyonly]

have been here every day since SO started this mod. JosEPh

Dang Joe, had ur cup of coffee this morning/afternoon i see, lol